Sargent Pepper Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Don't cry. not my fault your ignoring thread after thread about how poor the ticket office are. Only one name ever stands out for good service, Jane Maggs. Personal touch? You're buying a ticket not a bank account Not in my experience, things will get a lot worse in that area as well as the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Football players in general should not be offered more than six month deals. The sooner we can get rid of them the better. Nice ideal, but can't work in reality, and even if you pushed though something like this, 6 month contracts?? Are you a football agent, Sweden? it would be mayhem for players and clubs, the only winners would be the players and their agents, just because you shorten the contract doesn't make is less lucrative for the player at all, I would argue the opposite. I don't understand why Damion Stewart can't be layed off like Jimmer? Its sad, maybe he can reapply for another position? more positions will be created in the future you would think, the new stadium and all that brings. And I don't necessarily think these restructures are based purely on saving money, like people say his wage is small, but its not about the money I think, his position is just a casualty of the restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroudy Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Gutted for him. He is a very nice chap and sorted something out for me a while ago. It will have a bad effect on the way we as fans experience our club. Its a poor show as far as im concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Looking at our history we should have benefited enormously from short term contracts. Footballers should be treated the same way as other employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsontour Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 If, as reported, the ticket office has been savagely cut, then the club had better ensure that they have retained my "dedicated account manager" to look after my needs as a season ticket holder. I must admit, administrative functions can often be successfully outsourced, and whilst it is a real shame for those effected it is the way of the world in these troubled times. I hope they all find suitable employment swiftly. What I don't understand however is how the club intends to ensure that it continues to excel in perhaps the only area that we, as long suffering fans, have received anything that even looks like over achievement, that being the communications and updates supplied by the media team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdc Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 James Healey What did James Healey do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 What did James Healey do? He's part of the media team, I think in the main the program editor. The media team that won countless awards for both program and website over past few years - looks like its only Adam left really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegC Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Poor show from BCFC; for anyone who follows Jimmer & Adam on twitter they'll know that they are part of what makes our club accessible and personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Your experience of outsourcing contradicts mine, where outsourcing work that isn't core business is actually very successful. I'm afraid this is exactly the sort of spreadsheet driven myopic view that MBA qualified executives give us every time they royally **** up a business by outsourcing. It is always purveyed by people who are not actually involved in the day to day reality of how an organisation works. I've been through this more times than I care to count and I'll point out one key thing. You say outsourcing is successful? I say nobody ever actually goes and finds out after it's done. Not once have I seen any business actually evaluate whether outsourcing delivered on the promises made. They're scared of the answer. Many of them quietly go full circle a few years later though, those that survive anyway. Many, many companies outsource for instance the maintenance and cleaning of their buildings, reception duties, security duties, payroll, etc, etc. Many, many companies doing it doesn't make it successful. The business I am working with at the moment outsources all but reception of those things you list, and guess which is the only one they don't have a constant stream of problems with? Problems that are not easy to solve because the outsourcing company will only do the bare minimum to the letter of the contract. They don't save money this way. City already outsource the provision of food and drink to its customers, I believe match day security is outsourced. Isn't the food provided to the players outsourced as well? And what a rip roaring success that is eh? The benefit to the club is that costs are known upfront, i.e. a contract is negotiated for provision of the service and the level of service is agreed (often with financial penalties for not meeting those targets). It is just as (if not more) possible to know the costs upfront without outsourcing and this is not even a benefit. A benefit would be more revenue or less cost. Neither gets delivered in my experience. Every service level agreement and contract has gaps in that are used by suppliers to claw more money away or result in service worsening. The clubs core business is winning football match's and the only employees it needs to directly employ are those it decides are required to achieve that aim, everything else and everyone else can be sourced from outside the club. Selling tickets to supporters and communicating with supporters is an absolutely fundamental part of the club's core business and if it outsources large chunks of responsibility for those it will lose touch even more rapidly and that will cause significant damage. This club is a business ONLY by necessity, not by aspiration. The fans are the club, without them it would be utterly pointless. Outsourcing ignores absolutely everything we know about human behaviour and produces exactly the results you would expect if you took that into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Disgusting to think players like Damion Stewart are still around whilst we are laying off important, dedicated staff like Jimmer. Poor show. Not that I think it's Stewart's fault, but I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ticket office is closed down according to Jayne Maggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfield Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ticket office is closed down according to Jayne Maggs. One position half the salary. The club has made a massive mistake in this move. This move shows how the club is further distancing itself from the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 We need to look at changing the law, company's outsource and use agency's to do away with their expensive HR depts and not be lumbered with a workforce tied into contracts. The laws are such company executives use them as an excuse to outsource individuals or entire departments to increase profit, they would also argue its gives them greater flexibility to hire and fire according to their needs and demands, and they would be right. Then you have issue with loyalty, the agency breaks the link. Are workers loyal to their agency or the club for instance, ask most agency works who they work for and they will tell you the agency, because they pay them. The law is open to abuse from agencies, their parasitic nature exploits both employer and employee because the law allows them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywaterred Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Am I wrong I thinking you can still purchase tickets in the club shop? That young lad with glasses in there was running around like a blue ass fly yesterday from till to till? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfield Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 More than likely the move to outsourcing will see the return of Premium rate phone numbers. Press 1 for Take That Your current position is 46 in the queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Looking at our history we should have benefited enormously from short term contracts. Footballers should be treated the same way as other employees. The reason this won't happen is that the players are percieved as commodities, with part of the value being linked to the length of their contract - if you have a red-hot striker with three years left on his contract he would be worth far less with only six months left because you could wait around for 6 months and get him for nothing... I'm not saying this is right - but it IS why the situation for footballer's contract lengths won't change in the forseeable future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Is the ticket office really being closed? Would there be seperate services for the disabled and oaps which do not add on additional costs for those least able to afford them, or access them? Endless damage to the clubs reputation waiting to happen there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm afraid this is exactly the sort of spreadsheet driven myopic view that MBA qualified executives give us every time they royally **** up a business by outsourcing. It is always purveyed by people who are not actually involved in the day to day reality of how an organisation works. I've been through this more times than I care to count and I'll point out one key thing. You say outsourcing is successful? I say nobody ever actually goes and finds out after it's done. Not once have I seen any business actually evaluate whether outsourcing delivered on the promises made. They're scared of the answer. Many of them quietly go full circle a few years later though, those that survive anyway. My experience of outsourcing both as a customer and a provider is that the contracts are constantly reviewed, and indeed amended, on a regular basis throughout the contract period. If any company entered into such a contract without reviews, both performance and financial being part of the contract I would be amazed. The companies I worked for always checked periodically on key parts of any contract. Many, many companies doing it doesn't make it successful. The business I am working with at the moment outsources all but reception of those things you list, and guess which is the only one they don't have a constant stream of problems with? Problems that are not easy to solve because the outsourcing company will only do the bare minimum to the letter of the contract. They don't save money this way. If your company has problems with its contracts, that's the fault of whoever negotiated them, and what company in its right mind would carry out more work (presumably at cost to itself) than the contract states. The reason for instance that MOD contracts always bust their budgets is in the main because the MOD can't make up its mind what it actually wants, not the fault of the contractor providing the service. And what a rip roaring success that is eh? It is just as (if not more) possible to know the costs upfront without outsourcing and this is not even a benefit. A benefit would be more revenue or less cost. Neither gets delivered in my experience. Every service level agreement and contract has gaps in that are used by suppliers to claw more money away or result in service worsening. I think you must be someone who has experience of working with a poorly negotiated contract and you have my sympathy. Selling tickets to supporters and communicating with supporters is an absolutely fundamental part of the club's core business and if it outsources large chunks of responsibility for those it will lose touch even more rapidly and that will cause significant damage. This club is a business ONLY by necessity, not by aspiration. The fans are the club, without them it would be utterly pointless. I have to say I agree, I also wish my football club wasn't a business, reality however dictates that it is. Outsourcing ignores absolutely everything we know about human behaviour and produces exactly the results you would expect if you took that into account. Too deep for me, it's a long time since my sociology and psychology classes, I guess we will have to agree to disagree........I've enjoyed the exchange of views........Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfield Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Would there be seperate services for the disabled and oaps which do not add on additional costs for those least able to afford them, or access them? Endless damage to the clubs reputation waiting to happen there. Only time will tell. But even the Olympics make disabled people ring a Premium rate number, when other tickets can be bought online for no extra charge. If the club use Ticketmaster, disabled tickets are usually sold over a Premium rate number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ticketmaster are shit. They did not accept my booking for the play off final. I had no British adress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbred Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Modern day football is evil. It has absolute no connection now to the “normal” fans, the club will say its about the Fair Financial Play and we are losing £xxx a year, but how much is the trip to spain costing? How much of that money could go on supporting the community, instead of making people redundant. We (I know its all clubs) are paying playing obscene amounts of money, for doing little, the club are then “forced” to make genuine people redundant. Can you really see any of the players caring about this? Its not their faults they are getting paid silly amounts, if someone offered you £000's a week, you would take it in a shot. Now we will have, average players, driving their posh cars into the car park on a Saturday, when people will be signing on the dole trying to pay mortgages and look after their families. Fans have a part to play in this aswell, forcing the clubs hands trying to chase the “dream”, all clubs are trying to get ahead, “We must have this player, we need to be higher in the table etc etc”. This is just making clubs spend more and more on players, on transfers, on wages. The days of “old school” fans are near enough over, going to the pub, standing up on the terrace, etc. Now its all about, popping down to the shop, pumping more money into the club by buying a shirt that cost 30p to make and paying £45, buying a pint of overpriced beer, grabbing a hot dog for yourself and a packet of sweets for your kid at £10, before taking your seat. Be careful not to stand for too long, we cant have any of that excessive fun here. The whole of football needs to take a hard look at itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 It's getting absurd in all honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Modern day football is evil. It has absolute no connection now to the “normal” fans, the club will say its about the Fair Financial Play and we are losing £xxx a year, but how much is the trip to spain costing? How much of that money could go on supporting the community, instead of making people redundant. We (I know its all clubs) are paying playing obscene amounts of money, for doing little, the club are then “forced” to make genuine people redundant. Can you really see any of the players caring about this? Its not their faults they are getting paid silly amounts, if someone offered you £000's a week, you would take it in a shot. Now we will have, average players, driving their posh cars into the car park on a Saturday, when people will be signing on the dole trying to pay mortgages and look after their families. Fans have a part to play in this aswell, forcing the clubs hands trying to chase the “dream”, all clubs are trying to get ahead, “We must have this player, we need to be higher in the table etc etc”. This is just making clubs spend more and more on players, on transfers, on wages. The days of “old school” fans are near enough over, going to the pub, standing up on the terrace, etc. Now its all about, popping down to the shop, pumping more money into the club by buying a shirt that cost 30p to make and paying £45, buying a pint of overpriced beer, grabbing a hot dog for yourself and a packet of sweets for your kid at £10, before taking your seat. Be careful not to stand for too long, we cant have any of that excessive fun here. The whole of football needs to take a hard look at itself. The damage is done, you will never see any Premier League club give one spec of shit about the damage it has caused. They only care for the money. They wont be happy until the football league stops having three promotion places into the Sky League, it irks them that they cant get their hands on all of the Sky payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Spain £3,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Ticket office is closed down according to Jayne Maggs. Does this mean Jayne is out of a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbred Posted July 12, 2012 Report Share Posted July 12, 2012 Does this mean Jayne is out of a job? I expect so, seeing as there is only one job and half the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolford's Hairband Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 It does make you wonder just how much the club were spending before, if this is the result of FFP related business. These are not small cutbacks by far, the reception, ticket office and media departments are some of the most important at the club. The ticket office and media department are ones which directly will have an effect on the supporters of the club. I can't imagine many clubs if any don't have a ticket office, it is one of if not the busiest place on a matchday, people buying away tickets, collections etc. The cutbacks also are making valuable staff who give their all and are commited and hard working the boot. Jayne Maggs and Sue Purchase inparticular have done great things with the ticket office in the last few years and it is sad that they are in a position where they may lose their jobs. They have given their absolute all over the years. The media department is also one that I am shocked to see be affected. The output of the media department has been superb over the past few years. Adam Baker and the team have done a really good job with the programme, the Player service, the website and the media side of the club. We did have one of the best media departments in the whole league. Adam has been a City fan for years and although Jimmer supports Yeovil, he also had a strong affection for the club. It is that sort of affection for the club that was shown in the output. It is that sort of passion and enthusiasm that is hard to replace, Bristol City was their club. Both have spent many years at the club, if in the future the club was to employ other media team members, they should go for City fans who are good at what they do and have the necessary skills to do the job. It is clear that was part of the reason our club and our fans are served so well. Anybody who has heard Adam commentate on the radio will know his passion and enthusiam for the club, it isn't something that you can learn as such when you go into a job and are not a fan. I was really disappointed to see Jimmer was let go as I think that there will be an affect on things with less staff, Adam has a hard enough job as it is. Last season there were three or four in there with Mark Perrow, Dan Studley and Jimmer assisting Adam. There are a few City fans who have been doing articles and posting them on Twitter, maybe it is that these fans get a chance to do some voluntary work to help out or something if required, I am sure they would jump at the opportunity. With the multi million debts of the last few years I can see why these decisions would have been made but they could end up being a backwards step for the club, which doesn't match the talk that the board have been spouting the last couple of seasons about new stadiums, a bright future and progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat Fastard Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I would at rather we kept the staff and did not have all the little giveaways that were linked to the season ticket renewal. Some of us old gits are not comfortable on the Internet and this may not have been fully appreciated by the young guns who now run our club. It is clearly a good thing to invest so heavily into the Academy because most of us would like to watch a team that was filled with home grown talent - but the club will not be seen as "family friendly" if simple ticket transactions are regarded as being difficult by us old gits who have been supporters for well over 40 years. Are we now considered to be of lesser importance?? Adam has been magnificent in all his works and it should be realised by the directors that the media department is the shop window for our club and all it's wares - they should be very careful because some of us who spend hours trawling through the news to find snippets of interest in all matters Bristol City really value the output of Adam and his colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 How will you buy away tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somerset_Sam Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 How will you buy away tickets? "Press 2 for Away tickets" "Press 1 for Nottingham Forest Away, Press 2 for Cardiff Away" "Please enter your 16 digit card number followed by the # key" "Please hold while we transfer you to a customer service representitive" "You are 46th in the queue, please hold your call is important to us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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