Ferdinand Charged For 'choc Ice' Comment

[MarcusX]

Physically attacking someone of a different race is definitely racist. Discriminating against someone of a different race is racist. calling someone a choc ice? Hmmmm. Sometimes I think people with the best intentions can actually make things worse.

Why is physically attacking someone of a different race "definitely racist"? Surely that would be determind by the motivating factors?

As LondonBristolian said, the connotations of the phrase "choc ice" are more offensive and devisive than your typical racist comment. It implied a Black man shouldnt give evidence to a white man over another black man.

Perhaps people dont really understand the term choc ice, or maybe it appears a little "light-hearted" therefore shouldnt be taken seriously?

[ooRya]

I agree that it can be seen as insulting, but "racist"? Particularly as it's one black person to another?

[TRL]

I agree that it can be seen as insulting, but "racist"? Particularly as it's one black person to another?

So is it not racist to white? Basically saying he is not black but white inside, using it as a insult. Is that suggesting it is bad to be white rather than black? After all it is how it is perceived, and to me, that is how it comes across

[NiceRed]

Don't really have an opinion on the choc-ice thing.

But white, heterosexual people (of which I am one) getting persecution complexes is pretty ridiculous. Let's not pretend we have had a hard time of things over the years, compared to other racial groups/sexual orientations...

[TRL]

Don't really have an opinion on the choc-ice thing.

But white, heterosexual people (of which I am one) getting persecution complexes is pretty ridiculous. Let's not pretend we have had a hard time of things over the years, compared to other racial groups/sexual orientations...

How about jews? many white may hetrosexual. Many persecuted for what they are.

just because you have not had a hard time,does not mean you should be discriminated against. Well that is what we are endlessly being told. it has to work both ways, or it cannot work at all.

And don't kid yourself that whites do not get victimised in predominantly black workforces, I could tell you of two people, how left jobs because of it.

[City Chuds]

I agree that it can be seen as insulting, but "racist"? Particularly as it's one black person to another?

You what? it is insulting based on a comment about someones race how is it not racism. What may I ask is wrong with thinking or siding with a white person because that is what Rio is saying is that it is a bad thing which I personally find offensive.

I cant stand Ashley Cole but actually admire him for not sticking in a pack and sticking up for someone no matter what their skin colour. I think the hardest thing for people to get their head round is its called racism not blackism!

[LondonBristolian]

So is it not racist to white? Basically saying he is not black but white inside, using it as a insult. Is that suggesting it is bad to be white rather than black? After all it is how it is perceived, and to me, that is how it comes across

It implies you should have solidarity with your own race and that, by not doing so, he's the 'enemy' in disguise. It's not suggesting its bad to be white, just that if you're black you should side with other black people. It's divisive and creates a false idea of a need for hostility between races but doesn't imply white people are bad, just that if you're a black person then you should side with your 'own' race.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

Of course its racist - Ashley Cole is not really black: he is a bounty, a sell out, an uncle tom driving Miss Daisy.

All though what has it got to do with the FA? Are they now the Twitter police?

[LondonBristolian]

How about jews? many white may hetrosexual. Many persecuted for what they are

Gentile white (non-disabled) heterosexuals then. Otherwise Nice_Red's point stands.

[LondonBristolian]

Of course its racist - Ashley Cole is not really black: he is a bounty, a sell out, an uncle tom driving Miss Daisy.

All though what has it got to do with the FA? Are they now the Twitter police?

The FA are, via their own codes, entitled to act if someone brings the game into disrepute.

[TRL]

It implies you should have solidarity with your own race and that, by not doing so, he's the 'enemy' in disguise. It's not suggesting its bad to be white, just that if you're black you should side with other black people. It's divisive and creates a false idea of a need for hostility between races but doesn't imply white people are bad, just that if you're a black person then you should side with your 'own' race.

it is how it is percieved by people, after all that is what racism is, what you percieve as being racist towards you. It can imply anything, and that is the problem with words like this.

[City Chuds]

Don't really have an opinion on the choc-ice thing.

But white, heterosexual people (of which I am one) getting persecution complexes is pretty ridiculous. Let's not pretend we have had a hard time of things over the years, compared to other racial groups/sexual orientations...

Its not about persecution its about a level playing field if its wrong to make out being black is bad how can it not be wrong to make out being white is bad?

[TRL]

Gentile white (non-disabled) heterosexuals then. Otherwise Nice_Red's point stands.

or Zimbawean farmers? Some may say they got what they desrvered, Many were not racist in any form, aslthough clearly some were.

how amout Malcom X, he inspired many blacks to hate whites, but is seen as some sort of good guy? he pacified somewhat in later life, but if he didn't lead many Blacks to hate whites, and cause attacks on some.

yes, we can say ethnic minorities probably have had it worse, but it certainly is not just them that get abuse.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

The FA are, via their own codes, entitled to act if someone brings the game into disrepute.

Come on, laughing at an offensive comment on twitter is hardly bringing the game into disrepute. It wasn't done on the pitch. it wasn't done on the training pitch. It wasn't done in lieu of a drugs test he ran away from.

It's bad taste and shows poor decision making - but what has it got to do with football?

[Drew Peacock]

god forbid we could have an intelligent open conversation

What!!!

With Rio Ferdinand???????

You're having a Turkish.

[LondonBristolian]

Its not about persecution its about a level playing field if its wrong to make out being black is bad how can it not be wrong to make out being white is bad?

He didn't make out being white is bad. You've misunderstood the implications of the phrase.

[LondonBristolian]

Come on, laughing at an offensive comment on twitter is hardly bringing the game into disrepute. It wasn't done on the pitch. it wasn't done on the training pitch. It wasn't done in lieu of a drugs test he ran away from.

It's bad taste and shows poor decision making - but what has it got to do with football?

I can see the logic. The whole Terry racism abuse reflected very badly on football and someone disparaging the verdict and insulting one of his England colleagues in public does look bad, especially with the newspaper coverage. Certainly if I (as a qualified teacher) publicly slagged off a college I worked for and it got reported in the papers I'd expect some action from my professional body.

[TRL]

He didn't make out being white is bad. You've misunderstood the implications of the phrase.

Have we? Like I said, racism is a lot about a comment is perceived. We can only guess what was meant by it.

[LondonBristolian]

or Zimbawean farmers? Some may say they got what they desrvered, Many were not racist in any form, aslthough clearly some were.

Well yes. But that's an extreme case in another country. Nobody's going to defend Mugabe here but it doesn't change the validity of Nice_Red's point that, as a white heterosexual person in the UK, you're unlikely to face anything like the kind of abuse or persecution other groups do.

how amout Malcom X, he inspired many blacks to hate whites, but is seen as some sort of good guy? he pacified somewhat in later life, but if he didn't lead many Blacks to hate whites, and cause attacks on some.

Again, nobody's saying that black on white racism doesn't exist, just not to anything like the extent of the amount of persecution that has existed towards people from other minority groups.

yes, we can say ethnic minorities probably have had it worse, but it certainly is not just them that get abuse.

There's not really any probably about it. They certainly have had it worse.

[LondonBristolian]

Have we? Like I said, racism is a lot about a comment is perceived. We can only guess what was meant by it.

Or you could look at the history of tensions and disagreements within black communities, previous uses of the words like 'coconut' and 'choc ice' and see what's historically been meant by it. There's not actually any need for guesswork at all.

[TRL]

Or you could look at the history of tensions and disagreements within black communities, previous uses of the words like 'coconut' and 'choc ice' and see what's historically been meant by it. There's not actually any need for guesswork at all.

Likewise you can look at whites having words for meaning black, with no racist connotations meant (yes I know some mindless racist may use the same words to abuse), yet blacks will see it as racist.

So the term coconut from a black person to an Asian person on bristol council is used for what exactly? They were not even the same race. It can be used absolutely for a racist taunt. The black councillor got charged for using racist words.

So it all goes down to how it was perceived

[Cambridge Batch Red]

I can see the logic. The whole Terry racism abuse reflected very badly on football and someone disparaging the verdict and insulting one of his England colleagues in public does look bad, especially with the newspaper coverage. Certainly if I (as a qualified teacher) publicly slagged off a college I worked for and it got reported in the papers I'd expect some action from my professional body.

Footballers now have twin identities, the footballer and the celebrity. I think it’s outside of the FA’s role to trawl through social media sites looking for problems. Rio has crafted a pretty poor celebrity identity with his Multicultural London English urban tweets, yo bro ya feel me? Unfortunately for him he is a clown and his twitter activity caught him out. He has faced trial by social media, and threads like this have exposed him as a hypocritical clown. Isn’t that enough?

[LondonBristolian]

Likewise you can look at whites having words for meaning black, with no racist connotations meant (yes I know some mindless racist may use the same words to abuse), yet blacks will see it as racist.

I don't actually think most black people will get offended by the inappropriate use of a slightly outdated word. But at the same time everyone knows the polite way to refer to people of other races now so there's not really much of a logic for someone insisting on using a word like 'coloured' for example, despite the fact that is clear from any news story, other people taking in the street etc. that that particular term is outdated.

I think people tend to think racial politics are more complicated than they are. Don't be rude, don't say anything malicious and don't wilfully ignore changes in terminology and its pretty unlikely anyone will get offended.

So the term coconut from a black person to an Asian person on bristol council is used for what exactly? They were not even the same race. It can be used absolutely for a racist taunt. The black councillor got charged for using racist words.

So it all goes down to how it was perceived

The fact the two people were from different non-white races doesn't change the implication at all. What the councillor meant for it is exactly the same thing as what the person on Twitter meant about it. It's pretty clear that the intent's the same and its not purely down to perception at all.

[LondonBristolian]

Footballers now have twin identities, the footballer and the celebrity. I think it’s outside of the FA’s role to trawl through social media sites looking for problems. Rio has crafted a pretty poor celebrity identity with his Multicultural London English urban tweets, yo bro ya feel me? Unfortunately for him he is a clown and his twitter activity caught him out. He has faced trial by social media, and threads like this have exposed him as a hypocritical clown. Isn’t that enough?

I don't think it's the FA's role to trawl social media sites either but, if footballer says or does something stupid that attracts publicity in every newspaper and is embarrassing for the game they're entitled to do something about that.

[jj77]

So you think that people should be allowed to voice their opinion no-matter what that opinion is?

Umm yes! Why should someone else's opinion be worth more? It up to you as a individual if you want to listen to it or ignore it. By any chance are you part of the left-wing anti-facist facists who think their opinions are the only ones that matter?

[TRL]

I don't actually think most black people will get offended by the inappropriate use of a slightly outdated word. But at the same time everyone knows the polite way to refer to people of other races now so there's not really much of a logic for someone insisting on using a word like 'coloured' for example, despite the fact that is clear from any news story, other people taking in the street etc. that that particular term is outdated.

I think people tend to think racial politics are more complicated than they are. Don't be rude, don't say anything malicious and don't wilfully ignore changes in terminology and its pretty unlikely anyone will get offended.

The fact the two people were from different non-white races doesn't change the implication at all. What the councillor meant for it is exactly the same thing as what the person on Twitter meant about it. It's pretty clear that the intent's the same and its not purely down to perception at all.

But the councillor now has a conviction for racism... So by the very fact she called someone a coconut, and was convicted of racism, in law. This term is in its nature, now, not in history, is racist.

Much like n word was not seen as racist years ago by the white community, now it is. By law, coconut has been proven to be a racially aggravating term, no matter how it is meant. And that should be a end to it. The law has spoken.

[Red-Robbo]

Interesting that Diane Abbott MP was never charged - or even investigated - for tweeting much worse.

"White people love playing divide and rule" was her blatantly racist generalisation.

[LondonBristolian]

But the councillor now has a conviction for racism... So by the very fact she called someone a coconut, and was convicted of racism, in law. This term is in its nature, now, not in history, is racist.

Much like n word was not seen as racist years ago by the white community, now it is. By law, coconut has been proven to be a racially aggravating term, no matter how it is meant. And that should be a end to it. The law has spoken.

Well, yes. I'd agree its reasonable to say that both words are racist. But it makes no difference whether its a black person or an asian person calling the person a coconut and whether its a black or asian person being called a coconut doesn't make it more or less racist.

[TRL]

Well, yes. I'd agree its reasonable to say that both words are racist. But it makes no difference whether its a black person or an asian person calling the person a coconut and whether its a black or asian person being called a coconut doesn't make it more or less racist.

I didn't say it made it anymore racist, I was pointing out it was racist. Which it is. Your postings were saying it wasn't a racist word, because of the way it was used for years in the black community. But it is?must be seen as racist now due to a legal ruling.

Is there a similar phrase in Asian communities? If there isn't, the I can see it, even if not covered by law, as Bering wholey racist, as Asians would not know the background to the word, which you pointed out earlier. Which takes it back to perception of a word, even if it hadn't been lawfully proven to be a racist comment.

So the guy that called Cole a choc Ice has used a racist term. Rio, well I am not sure you can be accused of anything for laughing at it on a tweet.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

I didn't say it made it anymore racist, I was pointing out it was racist. Which it is. Your postings were saying it wasn't a racist word, because of the way it was used for years in the black community. But it is?must be seen as racist now due to a legal ruling.

Is there a similar phrase in Asian communities? If there isn't, the I can see it, even if not covered by law, as Bering wholey racist, as Asians would not know the background to the word, which you pointed out earlier. Which takes it back to perception of a word, even if it hadn't been lawfully proven to be a racist comment.

So the guy that called Cole a choc Ice has used a racist term. Rio, well I am not sure you can be accused of anything for laughing at it on a tweet.

Perhaps he will use the John Terry defence - laughing at it or repeating it (in a sarcastic/incredulous manner) rather than laughing with it/or saying it.