JammyOne Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Sorry, I didn't realise clearing a cross/corner/set piece was classified as a technical ability! Fonts positional play and general play has been shocking all season not just tonight and to blame Wilson is a joke! And again he has to hold his hands up tonight letting Henderson step off him for a free headed equaliser. It's pathetic! Again, I'm not disputing Fonts form, technical ability or his favourite music CD. You said in your original post that Cunningham being injured shouldn't make any difference to "how he plays", only that it does make a difference, and I was explaining why you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Henderson must love our defences. Half his career goals are against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Wilson remind me of McAllister when we first signed him, not fast, decent tackler, can read the game ok. Sure he was shy going foward, but the man is a FULLBACK, hes not pacy enough to overlap like foster or cunningham, thought he did okay. Fontaine, patchy at best, make a few decent interventions and clearances, but still fairly shocking. Tangs, did alright, actually won a few in the air against henderson , slightly at fault for their goal as his marking was off, and he seemed to be ball watching. Foster, MoM, great game, kept Henry, a good winger, in his pocket all game, goal came from Pearsons marking of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 who would all the 'moaners' have played at the back instead then?? gerrard, keough, bikey, mcmanus, ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Foster - Not a left back (and an average right back) Tangs - League 1 Fonts - Showing signs that he isnt up for the challenge - very disappointing as a club captain Wilson - get rid - back to scottish football please Scuse - average but back from injury Pearson - League 1 Kilks - great when winning - like LJ - but not for battles against a relegation side Albert - enough said - ups and downs but no support Davies - some good moments - lack of service Sam - needs service Heaton - no blame to mention Summary - 16th at the end of the season ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboBCFC Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Lies. Step forward Kilkenny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Again, I'm not disputing Fonts form, technical ability or his favourite music CD. You said in your original post that Cunningham being injured shouldn't make any difference to "how he plays", only that it does make a difference, and I was explaining why you're wrong. But I still don't understand how Cunningham being fit would make a difference when Fontaine was playing just as bad when Cunningham was fit? Your saying because foster is moved to left back and Wilson is right back that makes a difference to how Fontaine plays which is rubbish. As captain surely you up your game when the team needs you most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cunnyfunt Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 We conceded a modest one goal at home. I'm happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Again, I'm not disputing Fonts form, technical ability or his favourite music CD. You said in your original post that Cunningham being injured shouldn't make any difference to "how he plays", only that it does make a difference, and I was explaining why you're wrong. Think Wooly is missing cunningham big time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 IMO opinion much of what you said was wrong, but I'm sure you know better...... Would you care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 He may be not as young as he was. He may not be as quick as he was. But our best CB but a country mile IMO was on the bench tonight. I would have played LC with JW along side him, plus Foster in one of the FB slots, then one of LF, LN or MW to fill the other FB position. These are my initial thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 But I still don't understand how Cunningham being fit would make a difference when Fontaine was playing just as bad when Cunningham was fit? Your saying because foster is moved to left back and Wilson is right back that makes a difference to how Fontaine place which is rubbish. As captain surely you up your game when the team needs you most? You can't understand why having better players around you makes your performance better, and having worse players around you makes your performances suffer? EDIT - Think Wooly is missing cunningham big time ! Perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 You can't understand why having better players around you makes your performance better, and having worse players around you makes your performances suffer? But he was playing badly anyway even with the so called better players around him so I don't think for one second that's a valid argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Think Wooly is missing cunningham big time ! That's a better point as Woolford has suffered a dip in form compared to how he started the season, although some will say he still isn't very good he only had a couple of decent games. But the defence has been poor and as good as Cunningham was before he got injured our centre backs were still poor and its unbelievable we haven't got anyone in for these positions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 and albert was also crying out for support from his right back - very evident... Not world beaters and none of us expect that to be honest - BUT a top 12 finish would be nice... REALISTIC - 16th at best on current form (which is a tad annoying as I predicted 9th at the start of the season and the lads had a right chuckle at me - maybe I was being too optimistic eh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 But he was playing badly anyway even with the so called better players around him so I don't think for one second that's a valid argument I don't believe that to be true, but if it were my point still stands. Better players around you will make you play better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 As much as I want all of our players to do well, Font's form is shocking. Watching him and Tangs tentative performance tonight would only fill Milwall with confidence. Once they worked out the weakness through the middle of the back four they grew in confidence and we were hanging on a bit towards the end. After a very bright opening it became a rather tepid affair. We are really struggling with centre backs and Dels inability to address the situation is threatening to undermine a bright start to the season, especially as Amougu was training with us . It's all very well blaming Carey, Fonts and Tangs but a first ball centre back they are not. Wilson is a strange one also I s he better than Joe Edwards? Definitely not. Does he have any pace? Does he link up with Albert? Definitely not We needed a good 3 points tonight because against better opposition such as Saturday we will get punished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I don't believe that to be true, but if it were my point still stands. Better players around you will make you play better. Wooly is the perfect example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Albert just ran sideways - Millwall dis homework Foster should imo stayed at right back, Fontaine Left Back and Louis Carey called into Centre Back. I think we need him or his experience to organise the back four Cole Skuse started off a level above everyone but slipped away by playing too many square passes Kilkenny - for get him Front players have done ok over the last two games Woolford - I was surprised to see him on bench tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I have a lot of faith in McInnes, genuinely a great deal, but there are concerns which are no more or less than that. We clearly need a centre back, something that was obviously noticed by him very quickly a la the recruitment of McManus, Amougou and then public chase of Keogh. Yet here we are, a fifth of the season gone, relying on players who have previously struggled. Fontaine being captain is a rod for the managers back, the next logical step to try and combat the issue is throw Carey at it, who should have been let go in the summer. There can be absolutely no doubt that McInnes has been and is working on it to a priority basis, but it's evidently clear that we are losing points for it and, in turn, that there is a theoretically large pool to choose from which would upgrade us. I don't understand the Morris situation at all. Anderson is getting all the pushing, but Morris is the type of leader we need in the middle of the park. I'm certainly not claiming to have seen masses of him, but pre-season vs Southampton he was calm and collected while did his bit to dictate and control the game. He was certainly less influential when we switched to a four man midfield, which neatly brings me to my next concern, our front line. Some may consider this the least of our worries, and in some respects it is, but we now have five players who could justifiably point to their inclusion. Some may spin out 'keeps others on their toes' or 'good competition' but I simply don't agree with this. We're a lower to middle of the road championship outfit who cannot justify so many viable options. I do wonder whether Baldock was our main target, it looked to be dead in the water, we successfully pursued Davies then Baldock had a change of heart, perhaps ironically in part due to the aforementioned capture. I haven't looked at the stats but I'd be interested to know what our starting front two have been for every game this season. We seem to chop and change frequently, too frequently for my liking, and it bothers me that McInnes may try to be too clever in his approach. Anderson is another mystery. If he isn't going to start then he seems the ideal impact sub, so his constant exclusion implies he's either carrying an injury or the management team are not happy with something. At Leicester I'd love to see us go 4-5-1 with Morris in front the back four, Adomah and Anderson offering pace on the flanks, Skuse and Elliott winning the middle of the park and Davies up top. Yet this in itself seems unfair on Stead and Taylor who could both equally fulfil the role, while leaving our main goal threat in Baldock on the bench. To finish as I started, we need a centre back. I've never been convinced by Fontaine as captain, but you worry that with our fragile back line any amendment along these lines right now may exacerbate an already worrying situation. All in all, and apologies for the essay, people need to keep their heads. Cunningham is a good player and is missed, and it is clear that we are trying to recruit the position of need. Mid table is progression, we'd be wise to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I was a bit apprehensive when I hear that Nyatanga was in the starting line-up. The last time I saw him was against Gilingham in the cup when he had a shocker. Thought he did OK tonight. I settled for a point long before the end, at least it stops the rot at home, if we had lost to Millwall, alarm bells would be have been ringing I agree about Nayatanga, by the standards he has set by his previous performances for us, he wasn't too bad, Fontaine, on the other hand, WTF?? Has he forgotten how to defend suddenly? I was an advocate of building the defence around Liam and he has lost form but tonight he was dreadful. My concern is that the last few Managers have seen that we have a glaring deficiency at the back but not one of them has done anything about it! Maybe I am being daft here but why haven't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 The main problem with the two defenders tonight is that even if they were on top form in Fontaine's case and match fit in Nyatanga's case the forwards Millwall had would always cause them trouble. When coming up against opposition such as Millwall you need a big, dominant first ball defender and we don't have one. Due to the disaster that was Stewart we haven't had one since McCombe was finally found out at this level. (Except when we had Caulker on loan of course). Both of our centre halves tonight would look better alongside that type of leader, not making excuses for them as they were both dodgy. Although I would say Nyatanga did grow into the game and was resonable defensively, but did show his obvious limitations with the ball at his feet. Now, Fontaine. I am one of Liam's biggest fans and I do feel his poor form is being exaggerrated. (Things such 'past it', 'not good enough for this level' and 'clearly not up to the fight' are all absurd). I actually feel he performed admirably in the two away games at Peterborough and Watford, but there cannot be any doubt that in the last three homes games, Blackburn and tonight in particular, he has been extremely poor and tonight there were very obvious signs of a player desperately searching for some confidence. However it is tricky one, when playing anywhere near his best he is our best central defender by quite some distance and it is obvious that McInnes highly rates him. All of our other three centre halves all have their limitations, although I would say tonight would have been perfect for Louis to come in and bring some authority and leadership into our backline, and that makes the manager's job a tough one. Does he try and persevere with Liam and hope that he manages to pull a performance out the hat and hope confidence comes flooding back? Or does he (probably deservedly) drop Fontaine and hope he can create a solid partnership from two out of Louis, Nyatanga and Wilson? Of course the other angle is whether it is doing anybody any good by constantly wheeling Liam out while his performances get steadily worse, his confidence continues to drop and some 'fans' get more and more on his back. For what it's worth, I think (barring any loan signings) he should simply decide which two centre halves he thinks are best, try and instil some much needed confidence, work hard with the whole team defensively on the training field and then give them a decent run together and hope performances improve. As McInnes correctly pointed out we allowed a lot of crosses into our box tonight, and even if they were playing at their very best our two centre halves would always struggle with the physical presence of Wood and Henderson, so we needed to try and stop the supply at source. Wilson and Foster did not do that this evening and the belief that our defensive issues are solely in the middle would be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't believe that to be true, but if it were my point still stands. Better players around you will make you play better. And the point in my opening post was why haven't better players been signed then, with the exception of Cunningham? I believe fonts is a good player but only when he has a strong dominate centre back next to him. Del has pretty much confirmed he knows who he wants but is waiting... Waiting for what? We needed someone 2/3 seasons ago! It's almost like we started this season and del has thought 'crap, I forgot to sign a centre back!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYTRAM Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have a lot of faith in McInnes, genuinely a great deal, but there are concerns which are no more or less than that. We clearly need a centre back, something that was obviously noticed by him very quickly a la the recruitment of McManus, Amougou and then public chase of Keogh. Yet here we are, a fifth of the season gone, relying on players who have previously struggled. Fontaine being captain is a rod for the managers back, the next logical step to try and combat the issue is throw Carey at it, who should have been let go in the summer. There can be absolutely no doubt that McInnes has been and is working on it to a priority basis, but it's evidently clear that we are losing points for it and, in turn, that there is a theoretically large pool to choose from which would upgrade us. I don't understand the Morris situation at all. Anderson is getting all the pushing, but Morris is the type of leader we need in the middle of the park. I'm certainly not claiming to have seen masses of him, but pre-season vs Southampton he was calm and collected while did his bit to dictate and control the game. He was certainly less influential when we switched to a four man midfield, which neatly brings me to my next concern, our front line. Some may consider this the least of our worries, and in some respects it is, but we now have five players who could justifiably point to their inclusion. Some may spin out 'keeps others on their toes' or 'good competition' but I simply don't agree with this. We're a lower to middle of the road championship outfit who cannot justify so many viable options. I do wonder whether Baldock was our main target, it looked to be dead in the water, we successfully pursued Davies then Baldock had a change of heart, perhaps ironically in part due to the aforementioned capture. I haven't looked at the stats but I'd be interested to know what our starting front two have been for every game this season. We seem to chop and change frequently, too frequently for my liking, and it bothers me that McInnes may try to be too clever in his approach. Anderson is another mystery. If he isn't going to start then he seems the ideal impact sub, so his constant exclusion implies he's either carrying an injury or the management team are not happy with something. At Leicester I'd love to see us go 4-5-1 with Morris in front the back four, Adomah and Anderson offering pace on the flanks, Skuse and Elliott winning the middle of the park and Davies up top. Yet this in itself seems unfair on Stead and Taylor who could both equally fulfil the role, while leaving our main goal threat in Baldock on the bench. To finish as I started, we need a centre back. I've never been convinced by Fontaine as captain, but you worry that with our fragile back line any amendment along these lines right now may exacerbate an already worrying situation. All in all, and apologies for the essay, people need to keep their heads. Cunningham is a good player and is missed, and it is clear that we are trying to recruit the position of need. Mid table is progression, we'd be wise to remember that. I agree with what you've said. For me the biggest point is the tinkering with our whimpering CB. We desperately need to have a change here, it needs to be from outside and it needs to be now. We can no longer put up with the same comment, just go and get him Del. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackers Corner Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 To be fair it wasn't just the centre backs at fault. Baldock was the only player who was willing to compete with shitu for the ball as every one else looked scared to death of him. I also thought that adomah is getting better and better and put some fantastic passes together. personally I think as an attacking unit we are top six but as a defensive unit bottom 3, we look lost without Cunningham. Could we get another emergency loan with elikobi injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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