WellRedPhil Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Millen was sacked for 6 points from 10, we've got 5 points from our last 12...food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 how come swindon are under a transfer embargo? I thought that was a ffp thing? I think that was lifted a day or so ago. The way it stands, in the past when we have brought in players with a good name and background this put extra sales on tickets because people out there wanted to see the big name playing for City. Who in there right mind are going to pay on the day to watch our latest displays? Three quarters of this team have the quality to go further with their careers but they need that extra bit of help, they wont get this from the manager or the other quarter of a team who simply are not of this standard or higher. They need players who they can look up to. The better players at the gate are getting dragged down by less competitive players. Time to take that chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 how come swindon are under a transfer embargo? I thought that was a ffp thing? it is in place its only the championship where fines and embargeos are on hold for 1 year due to the majority of clubs living beyond its means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 it is in place its only the championship where fines and embargeos are on hold for 1 year due to the majority of clubs living beyond its means It has been lifted according to their site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 It has been lifted according to their site aye but the point still stand on FFP we have to get our house in order and become self sufficant not having to relay on an extremely rich man to shell out 12 million out of his own pocket every year just to cover operating costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 He's got to be given more time yet, at least until Christmas. I remember when we lost nine in a row under Gary Johnson, once we broke the sequence we went seven games unbeaten. I'd like to believe last night was the low point of our run, once it gets to the stage that nobody expects us to win it takes the pressure off the players. Bad news about Skuse and McManus but we've got a big squad and we were losing games with them in the side anyway, some forced changes might be a blessing. I have to say I am getting a bit bored of the McInnes Apologists referring to GJ's nine defeats as a cause for optimism / patience. As others have said GJ quite rightly went through BT's squad like a dose of salts when he first arrived and the immediate effect was fairly bloody by all accounts. Over the space of nine games he worked out who was with him and drove out those that weren't and the outcome was positive. There is simply no comparison with the current situation where DM has had 12 months to decide who he wants and for all the new-found austerity he has undeniably been backed in the transfer market. In fairness to DM (and KM before him) attempts to assemble/maintain a competitive squad on a budget after three or four years of profligacy presents an additional difficulty but I have no doubt he was made well aware of this when he was offered the job - in fact I suspect this is a key reason why he was offered the job, profligate spending being (as far as I know) an alien concept at St Johnstone. Whilst any one of the following can be rationally explained in isolation, taken as a whole do they indicate a commonsense approach to managing on a budget? 1/ Hunt, Stewart (and even Johnson???!!!) set aside and binned-off at great expense without a 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) chance to resurrect their careers 2/ Pitman (presumably now one of the top three earners) left to rot because he allegedly can't play up top on his own - and Baldock can???? 3/ Morris and Anderson signed neither for now nor the future it seems 4/ 5 strikers and 4 left-wingers And with all this criticism of the Board and SL - does anyone really think it would be any more sensible to pay McManus, Cisse, Buzsaky or Amougou more than twice (if the rumours are true) than anyone else in the squad? However, putting all of this to one side on the basis that DM is not exclusively culpable (i.e. Board, owners, previous managers have also made mistakes) we are left to examine DM's record of getting the best he can out of the available resource. A record of 14 wins and 12 draws from 51 attempts does not look great and does not suggest that current form is in any way a "bad run" which we will overcome. In truth if we saw two brief spells of decent form (Oct/Nov 2011 and April 2012) separated by four months without hope last season and we already have two months of rubbish now after 5 days of excitement at the end of August. The other line put forward by the McInnes Apologists is that the players don't try, don't care, are talentless etc. etc. Setting aside the question of how any manager in any walk of life could ever be excused failure on these grounds, I simply refuse to believe it is true. In the simplest terms possible motivation is founded in the belief that trying harder will lead to greater success (either personally or in some other way which is desirable to the individual). Unless a player believes that his efforts will lead to victory, or to greater opportunity or even to greater personal wealth or security he will simply find it impossible to motivate himself. Hence repeated defeat destroys confidence that effort can be rewarded by results, thereby eroding motivation (sometimes fatally) leading invariably to an appearance of apathy - at the same time leading to repeated defeat. A successful manager (if he does nothing else) finds away of breaking this vicious circle of decline by instilling the illusion (if no more) that greater effort will produce better results. If DM could identify how he (or someone/something else) achieved the turnaround in March/April I am sure he would do the same thing again. Much as I like many others was optimistic when he was appointed, and like many others I have little confidence in the Board's ability to appoint a more able replacement - I have seen almost nothing in the last 12 months to suggest that DM is measurably more able than the worst manager we have ever had. In these situations we can point fingers at the Board (and/or owners) as much as we like but they have few options available to them - analysis and criticism of performance over the last decade adds nothing to solving the immediate problem and hence the choices are limited to: 1/ sack him / don't sack him; and 2/ chuck some more money at it / don't chuck any more money at it That the contributors to this forum appear to be split down the middle on both of these questions illustrates just how difficult it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kit Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I have to say I am firmly in the give McInnes a lot more time camp. I would also add that I would also advocate keeping him even if we went down, although I think it would probably be unlikely that he would be allowed to keep the job if he went down. I think the only big mistake he has made since he has come is signing Baldock for a fair amount of money instead of maybe forking out on a centre back or midfielder, although it isn't completely clear whether there was much talent available to us to do that. If Baldock was on a free then he would have been a great signing, filling the void of a pacy striker that wasn't in the squad, plus a lot of people were very pleased with his signing at the time. McInnes is still dealing with a lot of the dross in the squad that are a hangover from his predecessors, all given long contracts with no real saleability: Nytanga, Kilkenny, Pitman, J.Wilson. Then to a lesser extent a number of other players that aren't really screaming out as top draw Championship players, but probably command a wage as if they are: Stead, Woolford, Skuse, Elliot. These players are a big reason as to why we can't be going out and signing lots of players to improve the squad. When you compare that to the signings that McInnes has made that will all expire at the end of the season or sooner, and are likely on much more modest wages: Carey, M.Wilson, Pearson, Morris. Then look at four other permanent signings, all of which probably have decent saleability to other clubs in Heaton, Baldock, Cunningham & Davies, all tied down to longer deals. The only really questionable singing has been Anderson because he has hardly featured, but that is one player out of around nine or ten permanent signings. By the start of next season this squad will have shed most of the baggage, and it is in the most part thanks to the work that McInnes is currently doing. Hopefully McInnes will be able to loan/sign the couple of extra players that are required to stay in the league this season, and then move on next with a bit more freedom having lost a number of high paid underachievers. Add to this the fact that the changes to the youth development and coaching set ups that McInees has started will take more than a few months to really bear any sort of fruit means that we really do need be given more time. I am fairly certain that if McInnes was to be sacked now then he would have left the club in a far better position than the one that he inherited it in. Hopefully he is afforded a lot more time to turn around the continual spiral that this club has been falling since the play off final loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 With our luck, a knee-jerk reaction would result in a major injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I wouldn't sack him at the moment and it is only right that the board give him as much of a chance as possible, but to me it is starting to feel like all we are doing is delaying the inevitable. I said on Saturday that for me he had five games to turn it round (now four), but I can't help but feel that if we take a thrashing (something that we haven't suffered yet this season) in either of the two home games then unfortunately it could be time to show him the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I want to keep McInnes and definitely think he deserves more time but, at the same time, I think he does need (and maybe privately he's doing so) to face up to and learn from the mistakes he's made in team selection, formations and not strengthening in key areas over the Summer. All of them are understandable, and I've no problem with someone making a few mistakes, but he does need to start learning and quickly. At times his team selection and formation can be a bit baffling from the outside and, whilst it's great when it works (Southampton away) it can also backfire spectacularly when we don't get the results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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