Red Cloud Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 not meaning to open a conspiracy discussion but does anyone else think there must be a reason why regardless what manager or players we sign, we rarely improve? the best we can hope for is stay the same! Where does this continual pattern of players refusing to play for the manager come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 not meaning to open a conspiracy discussion but does anyone else think there must be a reason why regardless what manager or players we sign, we rarely improve? the best we can hope for is stay the same! Where does this continual pattern of players refusing to play for the manager come from? its fundmentally the same core of players who have failed repeatedly, the core of the team has been here since johnson we have been far to loyal to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 its fundmentally the same core of players who have failed repeatedly, the core of the team has been here since johnson we have been far to loyal to them pretty much this. Players like Fontaine, Elliott, Skuse Carey....all have failed massively in recent years and have, on so many occasions, proved they are not good enough. Yet these are the players who make up the spine of the team AGAIN this season. The problem with this club, is we accept average. Last season, we were terrible, we stayed up, certain players we treated like heroes...Pearson and Carey for example, both given contracts on the back end of last season. Crazy, what a waste of wages. Any DECENT football club with real vision, would have said "thank you very much, but now we must go forward as a club and unfortunately you are not part of those plans" Not Bristol City..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskay Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 pretty much this. Players like Fontaine, Elliott, Skuse Carey....all have failed massively in recent years and have, on so many occasions, proved they are not good enough. Yet these are the players who make up the spine of the team AGAIN this season. The problem with this club, is we accept average. Last season, we were terrible, we stayed up, certain players we treated like heroes...Pearson and Carey for example, both given contracts on the back end of last season. Crazy, what a waste of wages. Any DECENT football club with real vision, would have said "thank you very much, but now we must go forward as a club and unfortunately you are not part of those plans" Not Bristol City..... This is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 We rarely make profits on players, we sign the odd name or promising talent only to train it out of them. Managers have come in done badly but gone onto better things, I bet Derek will be the same. Perhaps we should get a priest in to rid the bad spirits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 We rarely make profits on players, we sign the odd name or promising talent only to train it out of them. Managers have come in done badly but gone onto better things, I bet Derek will be the same. Perhaps we should get a priest in to rid the bad spirits! I was getting at this on the Baldock thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 This is spot on. Double spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundz18 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's ever since we moved to failand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 pretty much this. Players like Fontaine, Elliott, Skuse Carey....all have failed massively in recent years and have, on so many occasions, proved they are not good enough. Yet these are the players who make up the spine of the team AGAIN this season. The problem with this club, is we accept average. Last season, we were terrible, we stayed up, certain players we treated like heroes...Pearson and Carey for example, both given contracts on the back end of last season. Crazy, what a waste of wages. Any DECENT football club with real vision, would have said "thank you very much, but now we must go forward as a club and unfortunately you are not part of those plans" Not Bristol City..... Absolutely right but those 4 players ( some doubt has been raised about Skuse) have all been given new contracts in the last year. Whatever happened to a new brush sweeps clean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 not meaning to open a conspiracy discussion but does anyone else think there must be a reason why regardless what manager or players we sign, we rarely improve? the best we can hope for is stay the same! Where does this continual pattern of players refusing to play for the manager come from? Whether GJ had to go or not, any players who refused to give 100% for him, the club, the shirt, and the fans should definitely have been moved on. If there were cliques at the club with a bad history of not playing for a manager Del would surely have been made aware and his first thought should have been to get them out the door asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's ever since we moved to failand... We've always trained in failand, the new training ground is across the road (near enough) from the old one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this. It is going to take a very strong personality to come and build the club in his own image. Dare i say it, is relegation the answer to this never ending cycle of despair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think this. It is going to take a very strong personality to come and build the club in his own image. Dare i say it, is relegation the answer to this never ending cycle of despair? If we had a board similar to that of Norwich and Southampton I would say yes..... ....unfortunately we dont, so if we go down...get comfy and be prepared for a nice long stay in the sess pit that is league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 If we had a board similar to that of Norwich and Southampton I would say yes..... ....unfortunately we dont, so if we go down...get comfy and be prepared for a nice long stay in the sess pit that is league 1 it would give us time to sort the mess out and get supporters expectations back down to normal levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extonsred Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes there is something deeper -0- and sadly I am convinced it is the players not the management. The likes of Fontaine and Elliot whilst not all that good are certainly not the abysmal performers we have seen of late. My scenario -- no contacts or rumours but based on decades of watching City fail more miserably than any other similar sized club is that:- Del has come in -- he has had a bit of a clear out and probably thought he had done enough but should have got rid of Carey -- much as I have admired this guy over the years I have felt for some time he needed to be off. He is seen as too much of a cult figure. Del is his own person -- within days of being here he sent a number of players home for 'messing' around. He got the team playing the football we have been crying out for for years at the beginning of the season. Where did this all fall apart? The question has to be why players have not been signed or willing to come here. My suspicion is that he has told some of them what he really thinks ie they will be offloaded as quickly as possible -- they then rebel, the word gets around the football grapevine very quickly that all is not well so why should anyonewant to come here. Del cannot say what needs to be said in public as he would immediately be hammered by the PFA -- so the players remain in control. If they force Del out then they may get the reprieve on their contracts he is clearly not willing to give them. I think Del will be a very good manager and I would not like to see him go -- at the same time with this crew on board relegation is inevitable and the pressure may become overwhelming. Would really love to hear from Del how he honestly sees the real situation rather than press soundbites which have to contain absolutely nothing of use unless he is going to leave himself open to court proceedings!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman03 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Whether GJ had to go or not, any players who refused to give 100% for him, the club, the shirt, and the fans should definitely have been moved on. Lets face it, GJ worked wonders for the club, and had we stuck with him, i believe he would have cleared out the dead wood and started a rebuilding, and to be fair he did it very well the first time around in 06. A quick google search and you'll find news articles from the time of his sacking. 2 wins in 12, and 7 points off the relegation zone. A poor run, but certainly not as bad as what we are seeing now, and have seen over the last couple of years. So we parted company with him, and the problem players stayed. Those who Gary could probably see didn't have a future, Carey, Elliot, Nayatanga, maybe Fontain, were retained, and have somehow been the backbone of the team ever since. (To be fair Skuse was fantastic in that season, and so i won't really include him, although now he should be on his way). Ofcourse, we can stew over why it was a mistake to turn on Johnson, but what matters now is the future. To ensure that our future is a bright one we must be rid of those players, that reflect the club, in the way they have been on a downward spiral ever since the final wistle blew at Wembly, 4 and a half years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes there is something deeper -0- and sadly I am convinced it is the players not the management. The likes of Fontaine and Elliot whilst not all that good are certainly not the abysmal performers we have seen of late. My scenario -- no contacts or rumours but based on decades of watching City fail more miserably than any other similar sized club is that:- Del has come in -- he has had a bit of a clear out and probably thought he had done enough but should have got rid of Carey -- much as I have admired this guy over the years I have felt for some time he needed to be off. He is seen as too much of a cult figure. Del is his own person -- within days of being here he sent a number of players home for 'messing' around. He got the team playing the football we have been crying out for for years at the beginning of the season. Where did this all fall apart? The question has to be why players have not been signed or willing to come here. My suspicion is that he has told some of them what he really thinks ie they will be offloaded as quickly as possible -- they then rebel, the word gets around the football grapevine very quickly that all is not well so why should anyonewant to come here. Del cannot say what needs to be said in public as he would immediately be hammered by the PFA -- so the players remain in control. If they force Del out then they may get the reprieve on their contracts he is clearly not willing to give them. I think Del will be a very good manager and I would not like to see him go -- at the same time with this crew on board relegation is inevitable and the pressure may become overwhelming. Would really love to hear from Del how he honestly sees the real situation rather than press soundbites which have to contain absolutely nothing of use unless he is going to leave himself open to court proceedings!! Spot on post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes there is something deeper -0- and sadly I am convinced it is the players not the management. The likes of Fontaine and Elliot whilst not all that good are certainly not the abysmal performers we have seen of late. My scenario -- no contacts or rumours but based on decades of watching City fail more miserably than any other similar sized club is that:- Del has come in -- he has had a bit of a clear out and probably thought he had done enough but should have got rid of Carey -- much as I have admired this guy over the years I have felt for some time he needed to be off. He is seen as too much of a cult figure. Del is his own person -- within days of being here he sent a number of players home for 'messing' around. He got the team playing the football we have been crying out for for years at the beginning of the season. Where did this all fall apart? The question has to be why players have not been signed or willing to come here. My suspicion is that he has told some of them what he really thinks ie they will be offloaded as quickly as possible -- they then rebel, the word gets around the football grapevine very quickly that all is not well so why should anyonewant to come here. Del cannot say what needs to be said in public as he would immediately be hammered by the PFA -- so the players remain in control. If they force Del out then they may get the reprieve on their contracts he is clearly not willing to give them. I think Del will be a very good manager and I would not like to see him go -- at the same time with this crew on board relegation is inevitable and the pressure may become overwhelming. Would really love to hear from Del how he honestly sees the real situation rather than press soundbites which have to contain absolutely nothing of use unless he is going to leave himself open to court proceedings!! Yes, that fits exactly with what I fear and suspect. The question is WTF can Del, or anyone else do about it? We're stuck with a pile of idle sh1te and we don't have, or can't use, a shovel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennHumphrys1 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Yes there is something deeper -0- and sadly I am convinced it is the players not the management. The likes of Fontaine and Elliot whilst not all that good are certainly not the abysmal performers we have seen of late. My scenario -- no contacts or rumours but based on decades of watching City fail more miserably than any other similar sized club is that:- Del has come in -- he has had a bit of a clear out and probably thought he had done enough but should have got rid of Carey -- much as I have admired this guy over the years I have felt for some time he needed to be off. He is seen as too much of a cult figure. Del is his own person -- within days of being here he sent a number of players home for 'messing' around. He got the team playing the football we have been crying out for for years at the beginning of the season. Where did this all fall apart? The question has to be why players have not been signed or willing to come here. My suspicion is that he has told some of them what he really thinks ie they will be offloaded as quickly as possible -- they then rebel, the word gets around the football grapevine very quickly that all is not well so why should anyonewant to come here. Del cannot say what needs to be said in public as he would immediately be hammered by the PFA -- so the players remain in control. If they force Del out then they may get the reprieve on their contracts he is clearly not willing to give them. I think Del will be a very good manager and I would not like to see him go -- at the same time with this crew on board relegation is inevitable and the pressure may become overwhelming. Would really love to hear from Del how he honestly sees the real situation rather than press soundbites which have to contain absolutely nothing of use unless he is going to leave himself open to court proceedings!! Depressingly, I think you're right. "Player power" seems to be all too common these days. The players don't like a manager's methods, they decide to stop playing for him - cos they know that soon enough it'll lead to him getting the boot. And even more depressingly, this doesn't reflect badly on the players in the long term because football is one of the few industries in the world where you can be completely and utterly useless and still get snapped up by another club for huge wages. Saying all that, it's still Del's job to show the players who's boss. Somehow I can't see Fergie standing for any shit (mind you, he does have the benefit of being able to say, 'Play badly and you'll never play for Man United again'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_Lemon Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Johnson 'lost' the dressing room. Millen 'lost' the dressing room. Has McInnes now 'lost' the dressing room? It's not down to management its perhaps a certain player or a group of players or even board members who are spreading a poison among the club. In my opinion keep McInnes and sack most of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 it would give us time to sort the mess out and get supporters expectations back down to normal levels It wouldn't give time to sell league 1 players on championship wage to balance the books, and the fans would expect automatic promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Johnson 'lost' the dressing room. Millen 'lost' the dressing room. Has McInnes now 'lost' the dressing room? It's not down to management its perhaps a certain player or a group of players or even board members who are spreading a poison among the club. In my opinion keep McInnes and sack most of the players. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 pretty much this. Players like Fontaine, Elliott, Skuse Carey....all have failed massively in recent years and have, on so many occasions, proved they are not good enough. Yet these are the players who make up the spine of the team AGAIN this season. The problem with this club, is we accept average. Last season, we were terrible, we stayed up, certain players we treated like heroes...Pearson and Carey for example, both given contracts on the back end of last season. Crazy, what a waste of wages. Any DECENT football club with real vision, would have said "thank you very much, but now we must go forward as a club and unfortunately you are not part of those plans" Not Bristol City..... Actually Skuse, Carey and Fontaine all performed either reasonably or very well last season and, indeed, were all present in our most successful year in the Championship. There seems a fashion on here for blaming longer serving squad members for all the woes of late, but unless my reports from Sunday are incorrect, pretty much everyone was terrible then - and Skuse and Carey didn't even play! I'm all for being unsentimental about players, but let's not gloss over the fact that far from importing pure quality we've had some crud brought in here of late (like Morris) and others who rarely excel (like Pearson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Actually Skuse, Carey and Fontaine all performed either reasonably or very well last season and, indeed, were all present in our most successful year in the Championship. There seems a fashion on here for blaming longer serving squad members for all the woes of late, but unless my reports from Sunday are incorrect, pretty much everyone was terrible then - and Skuse and Carey didn't even play! I'm all for being unsentimental about players, but let's not gloss over the fact that far from importing pure quality we've had some crud brought in here of late (like Morris) and others who rarely excel (like Pearson). All three showed a glimpse of what they could be, but it doesn't excuse the 90% of performances bring average to poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't see how you can lump Carey/Skuse/Fonts & Marv together, they need to be looked at in isolation and I still think the latter two have something more to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cloud Posted November 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Johnson 'lost' the dressing room. Millen 'lost' the dressing room. Has McInnes now 'lost' the dressing room? It's not down to management its perhaps a certain player or a group of players or even board members who are spreading a poison among the club. In my opinion keep McInnes and sack most of the players. absolutely spot on - that small group are the one constant in all this I just hope SL can see this and backs Del to replace them before we lose the few decent players we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 All three showed a glimpse of what they could be, but it doesn't excuse the 90% of performances bring average to poor. I think 90% of everyone's performances this season have been average-to-poor. However last season, the three I've highlighted were assets to the club. Look elsewhere oh ye scapegoat hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't see how you can lump Carey/Skuse/Fonts & Marv together, they need to be looked at in isolation and I still think the latter two have something more to give. To me, Fontaine is just appallingly out of form at the moment. He urgently needs a break from the team but I still think he's, at the very least, a decent squad player in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Lets face it, GJ worked wonders for the club, and had we stuck with him, i believe he would have cleared out the dead wood and started a rebuilding, and to be fair he did it very well the first time around in 06. A quick google search and you'll find news articles from the time of his sacking. 2 wins in 12, and 7 points off the relegation zone. A poor run, but certainly not as bad as what we are seeing now, and have seen over the last couple of years. So we parted company with him, and the problem players stayed. Those who Gary could probably see didn't have a future, Carey, Elliot, Nayatanga, maybe Fontain, were retained, and have somehow been the backbone of the team ever since. (To be fair Skuse was fantastic in that season, and so i won't really include him, although now he should be on his way). Ofcourse, we can stew over why it was a mistake to turn on Johnson, but what matters now is the future. To ensure that our future is a bright one we must be rid of those players, that reflect the club, in the way they have been on a downward spiral ever since the final wistle blew at Wembly, 4 and a half years ago. I believe this to be the case, had we stuck with him we may not have been in this, could've rebuilt perhaps. Johnson 'lost' the dressing room. Millen 'lost' the dressing room. Has McInnes now 'lost' the dressing room? It's not down to management its perhaps a certain player or a group of players or even board members who are spreading a poison among the club. In my opinion keep McInnes and sack most of the players. Agree, just that common denominator the players not good enough in many cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 We rarely make profits on players, we sign the odd name or promising talent only to train it out of them. Managers have come in done badly but gone onto better things, I bet Derek will be the same. Perhaps we should get a priest in to rid the bad spirits! Get on yer knees and pray for the return of REV KEV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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