4-5-1

[Strictly Obi]

Forgetting the delusional few posters on here that believe the way forward is to play two out and out wingers and two strikers. I think this weekends result fully justify's what i and many others have been saying for a long time.

Against the better sides (top 12 clubs) we should be playing this way (4-5-1) both home and away.

And against the bottom twelve 4-5-1 away from home and 4-4-2 at home.

And before the delusional few on here start ranting about negative tactics etc remember 'this we played 1 up front against Boro and scored 3 goals against a good side!

Also, i would remind those in our play-off season with lesser players we also used this tactic very successfully.

Starting to feel excited again as i believe Del is beginning to get his team selections and tactics right!

[Monkeh]

different teams call for different tactics, you should never pigeon hole yourself with a set tactic,

[Strictly Obi]

Agreed that why i stated playing both 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 against the better and lesser clubs respectively would be best!

But yes your right there are some fools on here who would like us to play 4-4-2 with two attacking wingers in every game! We've all seen they're posts and they know who they are!

They should know by now that different teams call for different tactics, and they should never pigeon hole themselves with a set tactic,

My point i was trying to make was one that 4-5-1 isn't necessarily a negative tactic ( as against Boro proves) and it helps us to win those midfield battles. And 4-5-1 can revert to 4-3-3 quite easily when attacking.

[Atyeo's Love Child]

I agree with you John, but this will result in one very unhappy Mr Baldock!

[Monkeh]

Agreed that why i stated playing both 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 against the better and lesser clubs respectively would be best!

But yes your right there are some fools on here who would like us to play 4-4-2 with two attacking wingers in every game! We've all seen they're posts and they know who they are!

They should know by now that different teams call for different tactics, and they should never pigeon hole themselves with a set tactic,

My point i was trying to make was one that 4-5-1 isn't necessarily a negative tactic ( as against Boro proves) and it helps us to win those midfield battles. And 4-5-1 can revert to 4-3-3 quite easily when attacking.

Boro aren't a big team so 4-5-1 worked well against them, Brighton are more skillful but I don't think they are that good in the air so long ball football will be required imo to beat them,

Where as wolves are big and strong and I believe we have to play on the break and explot admoah and I probbily play davies on the left wing as he has pace to and use the wide areas with stead and taylor in the box for crosses,

If everyone stays fit that is

[glynriley]

Boro aren't a big team so 4-5-1 worked well against them, Brighton are more skillful but I don't think they are that good in the air so long ball football will be required imo to beat them,

Where as wolves are big and strong and I believe we have to play on the break and explot admoah and I probbily play davies on the left wing as he has pace to and use the wide areas with stead and taylor in the box for crosses,

If everyone stays fit that is

Stead is out for "several weeks"

[Red-Robbo]

4-5-1 has worked for two games now. It's allowed us to make use of Kilkenny's football brain without having to rely on his non-existent defending skills.

But before I get too carried away about it, I think we should acknowledge we were playing Boro having an off day while we're boosted by the ebullience of Neil Danns and Joe Bryan playing out of his skin in an effort to cement a permanent first-team place for himself. Confidence has returned, but we still enjoyed very little possession according to the stats and in another game that could've cost us dear.

I'd still like us to play two up on occasion. It's horses for courses of course, but as the start of the season showed the best form of defence is attack and hopefully with Bates back, Cunningham fit and Fonts returned to something approaching the player we know him to be, we can use 4-4-2 against some of the less muscular sides, particularly at home.

[Strictly Obi]

Stead is out for "several weeks"

Disappointing! But not a huge blow if we're to continue in the main with one up front as we still have 3 fit strikers available.

[SecretSam]

it's an interesting discussion, but most managers would say that you build the formation to suit the players at your disposal

I recall Capello - remember, one of the most successful club managers ever - thought that talking about 'formation' was pointless - it was more about the roles of the individual players

Therefore you could have a 4-5-1 which was very attacking (on holding midfielder and the rest pushing on), or one that was very defensive (eg 2 holding midfielders and the wide men sitting back) - it's how plays and how

Very pleased to see Kilkenny given a chance - in the right formation, and without any defensive responsibilities I think he is dangerous

[real_bristol]

I agree with you John, but this will result in one very unhappy Mr Baldock!

Not if he replaces Kilkenny, not seen enough of Sam is he very creative?

I guess you can still have 2 wingers and 2 strikers on the pitch in a 451 or 41211!?

[Lew-T]

I agree with you John, but this will result in one very unhappy Mr Baldock!

Can't please the whole team. From what I've seen of him, he isn't ' brilliant ' anyway. Davies all day long

[Monkeh]

Can't please the whole team. From what I've seen of him, he isn't ' brilliant ' anyway. Davies all day long

He is if you play to his strength which is through balls as he plays on the shoulder of the last man and explots his pace,

we aren''t doing that we're playing the target man game lunching up to a big un for him to hold onto the ball and bring others into play,

If we can find the form we did against Cardiff and palace then you can see what baldock is all about,

[Robbored]

I can't say I'm a fan of 4-5-1 especially at home but currently its a case of needs must. Its worked twice so far but Gus Poyet will know what to expect tomorrow night and play the most difficult formation to counter City's 5 accross the middle.

The problem away from home is if City concede first. Then its hard to get back without changing formation.

[joeyb]

it's an interesting discussion, but most managers would say that you build the formation to suit the players at your disposal

I recall Capello - remember, one of the most successful club managers ever - thought that talking about 'formation' was pointless - it was more about the roles of the individual players

Therefore you could have a 4-5-1 which was very attacking (on holding midfielder and the rest pushing on), or one that was very defensive (eg 2 holding midfielders and the wide men sitting back) - it's how plays and how

Very pleased to see Kilkenny given a chance - in the right formation, and without any defensive responsibilities I think he is dangerous

Completely agree with this.

One formation that I believe could work well is with Davies playing a Rooney type role behind Baldock/Taylor depedning on opposition (preferably Baldock due to his superior ability to put the ball in the back of the net). This could be interpreted as a 4-4-2 with one deep forward. However, this could also be tinkered with to play as a 4-5-1 if Davies played a more central midfield role which would give wingers more attacking freedom.

"Modern" football is almsot eradicating the need for formations. Barca pretty much play a back 4 and a fluid front 6, all of which can play midfield or as the frontman. This confuses the sh*t out of man marking systems. However, not many teams have players of the ability to use this system successfully.

[Lew-T]

He is if you play to his strength which is through balls as he plays on the shoulder of the last man and explots his pace,

we aren''t doing that we're playing the target man game lunching up to a big un for him to hold onto the ball and bring others into play,

If we can find the form we did against Cardiff and palace then you can see what baldock is all about,

Davies has more to his game than Baldock. Therefore he should start ahead of him, simple as that really.

[Super]

Disappointing! But not a huge blow if we're to continue in the main with one up front as we still have 3 fit strikers available.

We can cope without him. I think Taylor has been far better than him this season.

[arpaul]

Forgetting the delusional few posters on here that believe the way forward is to play two out and out wingers and two strikers. I think this weekends result fully justify's what i and many others have been saying for a long time.

Against the better sides (top 12 clubs) we should be playing this way (4-5-1) both home and away.

And against the bottom twelve 4-5-1 away from home and 4-4-2 at home.

And before the delusional few on here start ranting about negative tactics etc remember 'this we played 1 up front against Boro and scored 3 goals against a good side!

Also, i would remind those in our play-off season with lesser players we also used this tactic very successfully.

Starting to feel excited again as i believe Del is beginning to get his team selections and tactics right!

Burnley are top of the bottom half of the Championship table,

But they are only 3 points from a play off birth.

So, how do you define top/good teams with mid table sides to relegation material?

Maybe our problem is that we have made too many changes to team and formations already.

I appreciate we've been unlucky with injuries, but lets have one formation. stick with it, and when change to personnel is needed at least the incoming player will know what is expected of him.

[Monkeh]

Burnley are top of the bottom half of the Championship table,

But they are only 3 points from a play off birth.

So, how do you define top/good teams with mid table sides to relegation material?

Maybe our problem is that we have made too many changes to team and formations already.

I appreciate we've been unlucky with injuries, but lets have one formation. stick with it, and when change to personnel is needed at least the incoming player will know what is expected of him.

most of our changes are forced because of injury, Bryan wouldn't be playing if Cunningham was fit, Carey wouldn't of paid if Bates was fit, Taylor wouldn;t of played if Stead was fit,

so on,

We've not had a settled formation or back four all season same with the midfield and thats probbily the major reason for our failings

[BCFC_Dan]

Also, i would remind those in our play-off season with lesser players we also used this tactic very successfully.

We played 4-4-1-1 not 4-5-1. Noble or Trundle played in behind Byfield, whilst McIndoe and Sproule played as conventional (if often tucked in to boost the centre) wingers.

[Robbored]

most of our changes are forced because of injury, Bryan wouldn't be playing if Cunningham was fit, Carey wouldn't of paid if Bates was fit, Taylor wouldn;t of played if Stead was fit,

so on,

We've not had a settled formation or back four all season same with the midfield and thats probbily the major reason for our failings

Spot on.

Mind you I'm not so sure I could predict McInnes's starting 11 if everyone was available. History shows us that he does tend to chop and change depending on home or away and who the opposition are.

[Red-Robbo]

Completely agree with this.

One formation that I believe could work well is with Davies playing a Rooney type role behind Baldock/Taylor depedning on opposition (preferably Baldock due to his superior ability to put the ball in the back of the net). This could be interpreted as a 4-4-2 with one deep forward. However, this could also be tinkered with to play as a 4-5-1 if Davies played a more central midfield role which would give wingers more attacking freedom.

"Modern" football is almsot eradicating the need for formations. Barca pretty much play a back 4 and a fluid front 6, all of which can play midfield or as the frontman. This confuses the sh*t out of man marking systems. However, not many teams have players of the ability to use this system successfully.

As I've said elsewhere, you'd waste Davies by playing him in a more mf role. He's the guy who runs onto crosses and picks up loose balls in their box. We need his cutting edge up front.