Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Depends in which country you are brought up in. Here in Britain we ( well some ) see it as cheating whereas virtually everywhere else in the world conning the ref is an acceptable part of the game. Its a cultural difference. Why we Brits have to take the higher morale ground just confuses other nations. Maradonna when confronted about the 'hand of god' incident by British journo's simply could understand what the fuss was about. Yeah of course it's only sport, Lance Armstrong acceptable?, Mike Tyson biting an opponents ear acceptable?, how far do you want it go?. http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/07/29/rsls-sabor%C3%ADo-fined-suspended-dive-vs-quakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yeah of course it's only sport, Lance Armstrong acceptable?, Mike Tyson biting an opponents ear acceptable?, how far do you want it go?. http://www.mlssoccer...-dive-vs-quakes Drug cheats and biting the opposition is a completely different scenario and aren't the Americans our nearest cousins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yeah, its morally wrong to dive and try to con the ref but only in the eyes of us Brits. I'm not sure if you're hedging your bets there. So are you saying that your view is that generally Brits think it's morally wrong to dive and con the ref and you agree with that view, or are you saying that is a typically British view that you disagree with. Put simply do you think it's morally wrong to dive and cheat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Put simply do you think it's morally wrong to dive and cheat? My view is that diving and generally trying to con the ref is a long standing part of the game and morally its wrong but so speeding in your vehicle but any truthful driver will admit that they break the speed limit probably every day but thats still happens. In other words - accept it and live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 We have to accept that it's part of the game now and has been for a while. Football has changed and so have the rest of the world, but us Brits are still stuck in the 70s of high flying crunching tackles. That's why we will never be successful as a country, we are too honest for our own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 My view is that diving and generally trying to con the ref is a long standing part of the game and morally its wrong but so speeding in your vehicle but any truthful driver will admit that they break the speed limit probably every day but thats still happens. In other words - accept it and live with it. and promote and coach it, that's the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sorry mate if that is what you are teaching your 8 year olds I pity them. You should be teaching them honesty and pride and winning deservedly because they've earned it. One day they will cheat you in their performance and you will know that and you will be partly responsible. I'm not teaching them anything like that, getting the little buggers to pass it is hard enough. I never got taught that I should go down, I learnt it's best to. If I get clipped, and I'm sprinting through, it doesn't take much contact to completely alter my game. So you make sure the ref, who invariably at that level (let alone professionals.) isn't very good, knows you've been had. How can it possibly be fair for a defender to get nothing of the ball but a whole lot of you? Even if you could stay up, why would you? It makes a mockery of the game if a defender can get away with clipping you. I love a well timed challenge, best part of the game. But if you go in, don't get the ball, what sort of game doesn't punish you? I'd never encourage one of my boys to go down with out just reason, I wouldn't ever interfere with that side of their game anyway... It's a personal choice of there own. But it's the way I learnt. It doesn't take many times of you playing 'honestly' and being at a disadvantage because of it To change your mindset completely. If referees actually protected strikers sufficiently this aspect of the game wouldn't exist... Genuine dives, I detest. You know that, Es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sorry mate if that is what you are teaching your 8 year olds I pity them. You should be teaching them honesty and pride and winning deservedly because they've earned it. One day they will cheat you in their performance and you will know that and you will be partly responsible. I'm not teaching them anything like that, getting the little buggers to pass it is hard enough. I never got taught that I should go down, I learnt it's best to. If I get clipped, and I'm sprinting through, it doesn't take much contact to completely alter my game. So you make sure the ref, who invariably at that level (let alone professionals.) isn't very good, knows you've been had. How can it possibly be fair for a defender to get nothing of the ball but a whole lot of you? Even if you could stay up, why would you? It makes a mockery of the game if a defender can get away with clipping you. I love a well timed challenge, best part of the game. But if you go in, don't get the ball, what sort of game doesn't punish you? I'd never encourage one of my boys to go down with out just reason, I wouldn't ever interfere with that side of their game anyway... It's a personal choice of there own. But it's the way I learnt. It doesn't take many times of you playing 'honestly' and being at a disadvantage because of it To change your mindset completely. If referees actually protected strikers sufficiently this aspect of the game wouldn't exist... Genuine dives, I detest. You know that, Es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I'm not teaching them anything like that, getting the little buggers to pass it is hard enough. I never got taught that I should go down, I learnt it's best to. If I get clipped, and I'm sprinting through, it doesn't take much contact to completely alter my game. So you make sure the ref, who invariably at that level (let alone professionals.) isn't very good, knows you've been had. How can it possibly be fair for a defender to get nothing of the ball but a whole lot of you? Even if you could stay up, why would you? It makes a mockery of the game if a defender can get away with clipping you. I love a well timed challenge, best part of the game. But if you go in, don't get the ball, what sort of game doesn't punish you? I'd never encourage one of my boys to go down with out just reason, I wouldn't ever interfere with that side of their game anyway... It's a personal choice of there own. But it's the way I learnt. It doesn't take many times of you playing 'honestly' and being at a disadvantage because of it To change your mindset completely. If referees actually protected strikers sufficiently this aspect of the game wouldn't exist... Genuine dives, I detest. You know that, Es. i'm glad to here that, children need role models and be taught the correct way to achieve things in life through hard work, because it means more knowing you earned it. I still don't agree and never will about going down unnecessarily it is cheating and players like Keegan, Callaghan, Peter Thompson and Steve Heighway (all Liverpool greats) used it as reverse psychology and a matter of pride against defenders, because they knew that if the defender had tried their best to hack them down and they stayed on their feet and either created a goal or scored a goal, it had a demoralising effect on the defenders and led to the defender becoming more reckless. I also don't like the trait of unnecessarily 'leaving a leg in' and running into a defender who is standing his ground like a statue to make it look like he has been fouled. I don't hold with the it's part of the modern game, because it's not it is still against the rules of the game, I don't hold with RR's view that because Johnny Foreigner does it so should we and pretty much advocating coaching it to kids. I have added 2 links the first involves a recent player of ours in America it's an interesting read. The 2nd is a short tribute to George Best about 50 seconds in George scores a famous goal against Chelsea, where he evades Chopper Harris who tries his best to cripple George but George manages to stay on his feet and the rest as they say is history. http://www.mlssoccer...-dive-vs-quakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 i'm glad to here that, children need role models and be taught the correct way to achieve things in life through hard work, because it means more knowing you earned it. I still don't agree and never will about going down unnecessarily it is cheating and players like Keegan, Callaghan, Peter Thompson and Steve Heighway (all Liverpool greats) used it as reverse psychology and a matter of pride against defenders, because they knew that if the defender had tried their best to hack them down and they stayed on their feet and either created a goal or scored a goal, it had a demoralising effect on the defenders and led to the defender becoming more reckless. I also don't like the trait of unnecessarily 'leaving a leg in' and running into a defender who is standing his ground like a statue to make it look like he has been fouled. I don't hold with the it's part of the modern game, because it's not it is still against the rules of the game, I don't hold with RR's view that because Johnny Foreigner does it so should we and pretty much advocating coaching it to kids. I have added 2 links the first involves a recent player of ours in America it's an interesting read. The 2nd is a short tribute to George Best about 50 seconds in George scores a famous goal against Chelsea, where he evades Chopper Harris who tries his best to cripple George but George manages to stay on his feet and the rest as they say is history. http://www.mlssoccer...-dive-vs-quakes Nice posting, this guy was a true genius. Didn't need cheating as he knew he was good enough to beat the challenge. Even if he was hit, more often than not he was straight back up, with the ball under control. Players could take a lot away from him. Shame about the booze, but I'm sure Bestie enjoyed his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 My view is that diving and generally trying to con the ref is a long standing part of the game and morally its wrong but so speeding in your vehicle but any truthful driver will admit that they break the speed limit probably every day but thats still happens. In other words - accept it and live with it. You are confusing a moral issue (cheating) with a legal one (speeding). Molesting young kids is also wrong and also has always happened and always will happen so are you saying for example we should accept and live with that? Where is your moral line drawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 You are confusing a moral issue (cheating) with a legal one (speeding). Molesting young kids is also wrong and also has always happened and always will happen so are you saying for example we should accept and live with that? Where is your moral line drawn? Best of luck with that one mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 1, 2012 Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 You are confusing a moral issue (cheating) with a legal one (speeding). Molesting young kids is also wrong and also has always happened and always will happen so are you saying for example we should accept and live with that? Where is your moral line drawn? Ask any mother whose child was knocked down by a driver doing 40mph in a 30mph zone whether speeding is a moral issue. My 'moral line' is very personalised where I would shrug and accept City condeding a penalty after a dive and carry on watching the game. If I saw someone being cruel to an animal or a child then I would take action. If I knew someone was dodging the tax man I wouldn't give two hoots. To me some things are wrong but so what? but others completely wrong and unacceptable. My guess is that most people have a similair view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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