Prestbury c of c Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 is it only me that sees a major factor in our demise is the goalkeeper.He doesnt come out for crosses,doesnt come of his line and doesnt dive-what does he do?I will tell you-picks the ball out of the net 3 to 4 times a game.Bring back Gerken or we will have another Henderson scenario.This is another Fontaine situation.Keep your place regardless of form.Why did he play Gerken at Brum who i thought was man of the match?I am sick of this mickey mouse run team,44 years of following but now sadly the enthusiasm is drained away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 +1 shot stopper but nothing else. Stick a cross on his head and you score. (Both Cardiff goals against us for starters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ahh yes....when Kevin Doyle uses his blistering pace to run 70yards and have a complete free shot in goal then clearly a new goalie us the solution In all seriousness I don't think he shuda dropped deano BUT he shudnt have dropped Heaton in first place. My old man was at brum and agreed with u that deano was our only player who deserved more than a 6 outa ten Can anyone think of a goal Heaton is actually to blame for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habberss Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Heaton is an awesome keeper! It's not his fault he's got that defence infront if him! Have we forgotten the Blackpool game already?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 what a ridiculous post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Butterfield Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 People seem to have a very rose tinted view of Dean Gerken who has played well at times but makes way too many mistakes. Heaton not only is the more superior keeper but also the more inteligent keeper who reads the game, makes interceptions and is generally more alert, in the season before David James when Dean was no 1 he didn't really have many match winning performances and his delivery was something that still makes fear reverberate within me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ahh yes....when Kevin Doyle uses his blistering pace to run 70yards and have a complete free shot in goal then clearly a new goalie us the solution In all seriousness I don't think he shuda dropped deano BUT he shudnt have dropped Heaton in first place. My old man was at brum and agreed with u that deano was our only player who deserved more than a 6 outa ten Can anyone think of a goal Heaton is actually to blame for? Sorry mate, can't take anyone seriously who speaks like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskay Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Got to look in front of the keeper for the problems. Heaton is much better than Gerks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 :laugh: always makes me laugh when people blame heaton.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whale Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Got a friend who's a Brum fan and was at the match. After the match he texted me saying that our team were awful that day and that Gerken looked like a mistake waiting to happen. Interesting how opinions vary I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 yet another fully paid up member of the Dean Gerkin fan club appears....Heaton is twice the keeper useless Gerkin is/was/will ever be It makes **** all difference who is in goal due to the utterly inept defenders we have. The fact Gerkin isnt playing is the only reason hes not getting abused as well. Gerkin along with seven or eight other members of this shambles should be kicked out as soon as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 :laugh: always makes me laugh when people blame heaton.. So he does dominate his area, then? I think that is definitely an area of his game that needs work. I don't believe Gerken is an improvement for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammyOne Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I agree with original post, give Gerken a decent run. People cry out for Fonts to be dropped due to bad form, but why not Heaton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Cant agree, Heaton's positioning is suspect, his reading of the game is such that he flaps under pressure. As Ive said and will agree, he is a great shot stopper, but there is something about Heaton that seems to unnerve the defence, much more than when Gerken is in goal. It was the same when James was there. See the end of last season, and then when Gerken has got a shot this season (in general) We still havent been great, but have only conceded 5 in 3 games (inc league cup game 2, 2, 1) as opposed to Heaton who has been part of a defence that has conceded 4 goals or more around 3 times this seasons. There is something more solid with Gerks in goal, and to be fair other than Heaton being signed and proclaimed the 'messiah' he hasnt done anything that deserves dropping from the end of last season onwards. It's another one of Del's follies. Heaton hasnt bought anything that we didnt have already to the team and is not an improvement. Almost equal, sure, but waste of cash ( done the whole we coulda gone with 2 gk plus emergency loan) and hasnt really solved anything. PS, the Heaton is better camp, dont give much in the way that he is better, other than he is 'shouty' or from Man U in general or was good for Cardiff? The above was a good reasoning, but it's few and far and between. People usually just say he is better and give lil or no solid reasoning Imo Gerken was badly at fault for Brum's first goal, beaten at near post, I think that's why he was dropped. Can you give me an example of a Heaton clanger that led to a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Nothing wrong with alternating two keepers and setting them in genuine competition and giving them an incentive to be at the top of their game. I think one of James's problems was that he knew he was automatic choice and standards slipped dramatically. RMLF is quite right. Heaton shares the blame with the defence for the first and possibly fourth goal on Saturday. Watch the video. He could've claimed the cross, but was static in his goalmouth. I think someone fed the entire defence quick-drying cement instead of porridge that morning, judging by how static they were! Now I'm NOT making the case that Gerken is better than Heaton, Heaton's played some blinders, I just think rotation and competition is good for the squad. As someone said, we don't want another Fontaine style 'undroppable'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I think people are forgetting his performance against Blackpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I agree with original post, give Gerken a decent run. People cry out for Fonts to be dropped due to bad form, but why not Heaton? People forget Gerkins last run in goal resulted in a 5-0 tanking by Blackpool, for which Gerkin has to take credit for 3 of the goals, and anyone remember is howler of a kick against Crapdiff in that tanking? Gerkin simply never has been good enough, but he has never bitched about being the bench warmer, unlike his predecessors, which is to his credit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepUpLino Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 How can anyone blame Heaton for this mess.... What a load of bollocks!!! Wake up for godsake!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Cant agree, Heaton's positioning is suspect, his reading of the game is such that he flaps under pressure. As Ive said and will agree, he is a great shot stopper, but there is something about Heaton that seems to unnerve the defence, much more than when Gerken is in goal. It was the same when James was there. See the end of last season, and then when Gerken has got a shot this season (in general) We still havent been great, but have only conceded 5 in 3 games (inc league cup game 2, 2, 1) as opposed to Heaton who has been part of a defence that has conceded 4 goals or more around 3 times this seasons. There is something more solid with Gerks in goal, and to be fair other than Heaton being signed and proclaimed the 'messiah' he hasnt done anything that deserves dropping from the end of last season onwards. It's another one of Del's follies. Heaton hasnt bought anything that we didnt have already to the team and is not an improvement. Almost equal, sure, but waste of cash ( done the whole we coulda gone with 2 gk plus emergency loan) and hasnt really solved anything. PS, the Heaton is better camp, dont give much in the way that he is better, other than he is 'shouty' or from Man U in general or was good for Cardiff? The above was a good reasoning, but it's few and far and between. People usually just say he is better and give lil or no solid reasoning Well that last paragraph is bollocks, people for solid reasons and then you dismiss them. You also continue to ignore the very valid point that watching a keeper from a highlight reel will not give off a fair reflection of their performance because good goalkeeping that isn't neccessarily a save will not make good television. But you will now get very defensive, refuse to acknowledge an argument that you don't like because it belittles statistical analysis and come back in two weeks claiming nobody wants to debate with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderArmyy Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I agree with original post, give Gerken a decent run. People cry out for Fonts to be dropped due to bad form, but why not Heaton? heaten hasn't been in bad form so you can't compare it to fontaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Sorry mate, can't take anyone seriously who speaks like this. Well said Tommy Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Heaton is not the problem, no need to look at that position at the moment. What goals can we say have been down to Heaton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Heaton is not the problem, no need to look at that position at the moment. What goals can we say have been down to Heaton? Do you think he had a good game on Saturday? No goals were caused by Heaton IMO but he could've claimed at least two crosses that were poked in. He was rooted to the spot. So, my view is COULD DO BETTER. One way to encourage him to perform at his best is to rotate the keepers. Gerks gets a consistently bad press here because, like Heaton, he's had to perform behind some dreadful, ramshackle defences. But he's a much better keeper than a number of posters give him credit for. Rotate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Fair enough, See Red Robbo's stuff below Bucks, that Blackpool tonking, was how long ago? 12 months. Since then Gerken was an integral part of the team that kept us up at the end of last season, performance vs Florist amongst others kept us in the league. But that seems to have been ignored? as is easier to besmirch, when trawling back for poor performances? Well, where are the solid reasons then? Other than the ones noted? Im not ignoring anything, Ive seen Heaton play, yes 90 mins game and not just 'highlights' and have given my 2 penneth worth on the situation, based on what I've seen I know full well what it takes to make a keeper, for a variety of reasons I'm not going into right now. Heaton isnt as good as being made out by people on here, however because he appears to be a 'favourite', he is largely immune to that critique or it results in the us vs them attitude. Ive already pointed out a billion times that he is a good shot stopper and that there isnt much between the two keepers. Ive also said imo that Gerken brings a je ne sais pas to the defence that makes it more sound as witnessed by the run in last season, and a more asssured (though still conceding) defence this time around. He is also in form which Heaton doesnt appear to be at present. There are a myriad of reasons why Gerken for Heaton at this stage is a good shout, but as much as you accuse me of not listening or being on the defensive, you have done the exact same whilst adding nothing to the discussion. There are not a myriad of reasons. As far as I can see, there isn't a single reason to choose Gerken. Heaton's good attributes then, though its been posted enough times. -best shot stopper in years. -communicates with his defence, I don't remember the last time I could hear a keeper from the back of the Dolman even when the atmosphere isn't too bad. -his dustribution from hand is excellent, like DJ he is continually let down by our static wide players though. -he's more confident from crosses than DJ or DG hav ever been. -he doesn't make absolute clangers like DG and DJ. -he's never flapped this season, one solid and important punch against wolves though. His kicking is poor because he doesn't take a touch, but other than that Heaton is nowhere near the problem. He shouldn't need to be as busy as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 It's obvious that I'm comparing it to the keepers I've seen in the last 15 years. I'm not gonna trawl through my memory for examples, I've too much of that crap to do on the causation of the civil wars..,,, I'll spell it out good and proper for you though. IN MY OPINION. (This is a good signpost for someone's overall opinion on a subject) Tom Heaton is a much better keeper than Dean Gerken. (There's the opinion stated for you) I have forged this opinion from the many times I have watched both keepers. (There's the evidence that has informed my judgement). Heaton has been at fault for very little. He is by no means perfect, but he is in my mind much better than Gerken, who is pathetic from crosses, absurdly error prone and has very bad distribution. (Bit more evidence I've selected to support my view, please argue with those three flaws to deano's game though... ) You can point out one mistake from Heaton this season.... If I cared that much I could probably create a dossier of mistakes made by Deano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTID GAZZA Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Oh My .. It will be cunningham getting the blame next when he comes back and we are still shocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Fair enough, See Red Robbo's stuff below Bucks, that Blackpool tonking, was how long ago? 12 months. Since then Gerken was an integral part of the team that kept us up at the end of last season, performance vs Florist amongst others kept us in the league. But that seems to have been ignored? as is easier to besmirch, when trawling back for poor performances? Well, where are the solid reasons then? Other than the ones noted? . Solid reasons heaton is better than gerken: - he reads the game twice better than deano, on plenty of ocasions this season he has been out to clear a ball and save the forward going clean through on goal, gerken would not have done this as has been proven in previous games. - He is a far superior shot stopper, and makes less clangers than gerken, how many goals this season have actually been his fault? okay he could have maybe come for the cross for the 1st goal sat but if our defence wasnt p*ss poor they would have cleared it. - A young Peter Smichael would let in hat fulls with our inept defense and midfield infront of him! I dont understand people blaming heaton for this mess, he has looked a grade above gerken and james that we had last year, we are just even more of a shambles defensively than we were last season. (and no i didnt think that was possible either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightyreds89 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Is this some sort of jOke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I see, always with the condescending and patronising responses. I'll go aloof then and respond in a random order Mistakes from Heaton, there are at least 3 pointed out in this very thread. Afaik there is only 1 for Gerks, from this season pointed out in this thread as well. As for the rest fair does, your opinion, dont agree with it, especially with Gerks, being 'pathetic' from crosses ( okay for this level), nor 'absurdly' error prone ( doesnt appear to be more error prone than anyone else). But it seems that you are so resolute in that opinion that it will not change even if Gerks, for example played a blinder from now until the end of his career,.he will always be, that keeper who I saw and didnt rate in the past, rather than what he has done most recently. If Heaton was on 'fire' then yay, he isnt and hasnt been and as discussed doesnt imo deserve the number 1 spot for the reasons that have been spread over a number of threads including this one. And in mine he does. We'll leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Heaton is better for me but until we sort out the midfield and defence then it makes little difference. If you give the opposition 15-20 shots a game then they will beat any keeper 3 or 4 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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