January, Heaton, Keepers...

[Harry]

I think it might be time to dispel some myths again from some of our otib contributors who have no idea.

Anyone placing any blame on Tom Heaton for the 546 goals conceded this season is doing so simply because he is the keeper. I've had a quick look at ALL of the goals we've conceded this season and I can level 100% fault at him for 1 goal (Brighton's 2nd).

I apportion some blame to him for :

1) Barnsley away (perhaps he could have come off his line for the cross - though I am being harsh on this one)

2) Bolton's 1st (Free Kick bottom corner - might have done a little better)

3) Burnley's 1st (One on One but Tom possibly goes to ground too early)

4) Sheff Weds 1st (Hesitated in coming for corner, should have stayed on his line as he was never getting there)

5) Sheff Weds 2nd (Spills a shot from distance)

6) Derby's 1st (Cross lands at 6yd box, possibly could have come out for this, but again this is a tad harsh)

7) Peterborough's 2nd (Beaten by a decent shot at his near post - again I'm possibly being harsh)

Aside from that, none of the other 42 goals conceded are Heaton's fault. In fact, he's made numerous fantastic saves.

The continual claims about conceding from corners being TH's fault is also false.

The corners we've conceded goals from are :

1) Cardiff's 1st (Near Post corner - not TH's ball to claim)

2) Middlesbrough (Near Post corner, about 8 yards out - not TH's ball to come for)

3) Wolves 1st (Outswinging corner met by header more than 10 yards from goal - not TH's remit to come for this)

4) Sheff Weds 1st (Hesitated to come and then went back - should have stayed)

5) Ipswich (Far post corner, met 8 yards beyond the far post and 8 yards out from byline - no keeper should come for this)

So, of all the corners we've conceded this season, Heaton is to blame for 1 goal conceded.

Take your agenda's elsewhere. We have ourselves a very good Championship level keeper.

[And Its Smith]

I don't think anyone has said he was at fault for the goals solely. Lets go through the highlights shown on Sky:

Save 1 - this is routine. If he's let that in then's its a shocking error so cannot be classed as a great save. A decent save.

Goal - he is 2 yards off his line. This is poor. He should be 5 yards off his line thus narrowing the angle greatly. A lot of keepers would save this.

Corner headed wide - could have come for it but lots of bodies and cross comes in whipped so can understand him not coming here.

Save Second Half - again routine but again he is 2 yards off the line. Another 1/2 yards out and he'd probably hold onto it.

Goal - cannot do anything about that

Save from long shot - incredibly routine. Again, if this goes in then it's woeful keeping.

Doesn't seem like he had a stunning game pal!

[Corleone]

Read my original comment on the highlights, it explains quite adequately as to why I hold the view that I do regarding the shots from the edge of the area. . Where was he stuck to his line? every single shot in that entire, montage/highlights had him stuck inside or on the edge of his 6 yard box, when I have seen him this season, he hasnt done anything different. There is this thing called a penalty area, he is allowed in that too and can command 'the box' as well, it is possible you know.

How many of the stops from the edge of the area did he hold rather than palming away?

Fully understand the game? I understand it quite clearly thank you very much.

Have you even seen the highlights? Are you seriously suggesting he should of held onto the efforts he saved? Wow.

You say he is dodgy from long range efforts, well I suggest you watch the Millwall highlights cos it shows otherwise.

You say he is dodgy from angled shots, again, the highlights show otherwise.

Im sorry but I don't think you do, I'm beginning to question you even know what a penalty area is to be honest.

[paulcitymod]

I don't think anyone has said he was at fault for the goals solely. Lets go through the highlights shown on Sky:

Save 1 - this is routine. If he's let that in then's its a shocking error so cannot be classed as a great save. A decent save.

Goal - he is 2 yards off his line. This is poor. He should be 5 yards off his line thus narrowing the angle greatly. A lot of keepers would save this.

Corner headed wide - could have come for it but lots of bodies and cross comes in whipped so can understand him not coming here.

Save Second Half - again routine but again he is 2 yards off the line. Another 1/2 yards out and he'd probably hold onto it.

Goal - cannot do anything about that

Save from long shot - incredibly routine. Again, if this goes in then it's woeful keeping.

Doesn't seem like he had a stunning game pal!

Mate

Goal 2 was unstoppable. Our best player yesterday

[And Its Smith]

Mate

Goal 2 was unstoppable. Our best player yesterday

Who said it wasn't unstoppable? Certainly not mean.

Read it again.

[paulcitymod]

Who said it wasn't unstoppable? Certainly not mean.

Read it again.

I read 'a lot of keepers would save this'. No way. Keeper not to blame

[Corleone]

Yes I have thanks, Red Dave's post, articulates some of the other stuff. and yes the highlights confirm that he was out of position for those shots, again refering to my original points. Ive not said anything about being 'dodgy' Ive said that he is competent, barely. So much on the defensive.

Too chuck something in to the mix, from memory N Guessan's first was similar to Nugent's goal at Leicester last season and Gerken was ripped a new one on here about being rubbish and out of position, yet Heaton is god's gift? Go Figure

Refer to Harry's post above.

Conversation over.

[And Its Smith]

I read 'a lot of keepers would save this'. No way. Keeper not to blame

Can you read? That was goal one.

[bearded_red]

He can improve when it comes to commanding his area, but he is a superb shot stopper and a good keeper.

As for the Millwall game he was our best player by a distance and had it not been for numerous excellent stops it could have been a pretty bleak scoreline.

[Red-Robbo]

Heaton is a good shot stopper (but so is Gerken) - he struggles with crosses, organising the defence, and angled shots. So we have a keeper that can stop rather comfortable shots in the middle of goal - ala almost every keeper.

If he stays or goes, I have no problem he is about as good/bad as most championship keepers, no better or worse - would not be upset to see Gerken in goal if it comes to it.

+1 on this.

Although I do think the continuing onslaught unleashed on his goal has demoralised him. He looked much better early in the season.

[tom from sunny side]

I know Dave, I'm obviously exaggerating just a incy bit when I say he's let in every shot, and he isn't as bad as I'm making him out to be. But the fact is, he's not getting clean sheets and it's causing us problems. I know our defence isn't that great, or our midfield for that matter but Heaton has to share some of the blame and responsibility for our goal difference. I think Tom has made the occasional decent save here and there, even enough to warrant screaming 'WHAT A SAVE' but he lets in far too many goals where most League 1 keepers would have kept it out.

it's not his fault we're not keeping clean sheets, there's only so much a keeper can do.So much more blame should be levelled at our outfield players than you're making out. You make it sound very simple. Wasn't it you who was saying he should be saving penalty kicks the other day?

[Bedminster Born And Red]

Not going to bag him. He's a decent Championship keeper but certainly no world beater like some on here claim.

Very good shot stopper (which you should be if you are playing in the second tier of English football). Doesn't dominate his six yard box. Yet to see him have a game like Gerken at Forest (1-0), Gerken at Newcastle (0-0), Gerken at Ipswich (0-0) and Gerken at Derby (2-1) where he was roundly praised as being the difference by the opposition Managers.

Clearly not as good as David Marshall which is why we have him.

[Keep the Faith]

Heaton is not the worst Goalkeeper we've ever had but he's far from being the best as well. As has been highlighted previously he often gets into poor position which make it look as though shots are unstoppable when in fact they are far from it. Just because a shot is out of reach for a Keeper does not mean he could do nothing about it.

As an example, Peterborough's second goal last weekend. He could have come off his line and closed the angle down. I'm not saying he would have saved it but he would have made it more difficult for the Striker who may have missed as a result. He didn't and the guy rolled it past him. He also very rarely (and i'm not saying never) makes a commanding catch from a cross. I imagine there is a degree of uncertainty caused in a defence resulting from having a keeper who is not as dominant as others.

He's the Goalkeeper for a team with a terrible defensive record . He's been an almost ever present in that defence. I'm not sure how he can be above all blaim.

I can't comment on the Millwall game as I wasn't there but even if he did have an excellent game he has not had (in my opinion) an excellent season and we should be considering other options. There may be none better out there but it would be foolish not to even look.

[ashton_fan]

I don't think Basso's with anyone now, aged 37 still a lot younger than James was. Would certainly be OK as no 2 to Gerks.

[catcott_red1]

I watched Yeovil with my mate the other day when city were away at Ipswich and thier keeper Marek Stech stood out for me. Good handling, made a couple good 1 vs 1 saves, claimed numerous crosses, passionate, commanding and very agile for a 6ft 3 man, he made 2 top corner saves with his finger tips. Only 22 and local. These are the type of players we need to be looking at in gerneal for all positions not just the goalkeeping department.

Surely we must have a scout watching Yeovil games surely, i mean Edwards in on loan there for one and they have couple of very decnt player that could make the step up. Stech as said before but also Luke Ayling. 21 can play anywere in defence but primarily a right back and likes to get stuck in and get involved but can bring the ball forward and is good techniqually to. already played over 100 games at that level.

Why we aren't looking at these players i'll never know.

[friendlygas]

If you want to criticise a keeper for not saving a shot then look no further than our keeper we had on loan- Sam Walker. From what I have seen of Heaton you have a very good keeper at that level. Thankfully we have a better keeper now too!!!

[Andy082005]

I know Dave, I'm obviously exaggerating just a incy bit when I say he's let in every shot, and he isn't as bad as I'm making him out to be. But the fact is, he's not getting clean sheets and it's causing us problems. I know our defence isn't that great, or our midfield for that matter but Heaton has to share some of the blame and responsibility for our goal difference. I think Tom has made the occasional decent save here and there, even enough to warrant screaming 'WHAT A SAVE' but he lets in far too many goals where most League 1 keepers would have kept it out.

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

[CiderHider]

Heaton is class, everyone knows it. Can be better than Basso given time.

[JammyOne]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Yeah I have, and to be honest I'm dreadful (no really I am), which is why I don't play professionally and I would rather pay good money and criticise others for it. But that's neither relevant or any of your business. I take it you must be a ex-premier league player and MOTD pundit for you to have such a high horse attitude about you?

Stick a decent defence in front of him (Heaton) and he would flourish? Stick a decent defence in front of Fontaine in goal, and Fontaine would flourish! Poor excuse.

[Jonathan Jenkins]

Heaton has no command of his 6 yard box, meaning he can only ever be a league one keeper. So many goals conceded from set peices!

[cider-manc]

I have got to be honest the argument that he is a "great shot stopper" is laughable, not because he isn't a great shot stopper, but because he is a professional goalkeeper! He should be a great shot stopper! That's his main job!

However I think that we would struggle to find another keeper of Heatons quality.

[Bedminster Born And Red]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Not saying Heaton is the worst keeper in the world because he isn't but he's simply not as good as is being made out by many on here. I certainly don't think that Gerken is as inferior as people are saying on here if he is inferior at all.

Cardiff have had a better back four than us in recent seasons but Heaton was unable to "flourish" there and make the Number 1 jersey his own.

You can't argue that Heaton is a very good shot stopper but has made a couple of ricks that you expect from any keeper over the course of a season (Brighton and Sheffield Wednesday from memory).

But what is concerning some is that he does not take enough high balls and his organisation of the back four can sometimes be below par. Specifically I go back to Derby's first goal where he didn't push his back four out in a routine manner and then compounded that error by not coming for a cross that was stabbed in only a foot off the ground.

We concede far too many goals from set pieces and high balls for it to be a co-incidence (although our Centre Halves also have to take a large slice of the blame too). Ignoring controversial posters all some of us are saying is that he has to take a "share" of the responsibility for our goals conceded record because he is a more or less ever present part of the back five, four, nine or whatever McInnes is playing that week!!

I wasn't at Millwall but it sounds like he had a very good game which is great. We want our keeper, whoever that may be, to play well every week.

In terms of my experience of the game a lot of the points I refer to above have been made by my son who played a decent level in goal and is a goalkeeping coach. My Grandson plays Academy football in goal too and I often watch his training/coaching. Does that make me qualified enough to comment?

[pigeon]

You really have no clue about football do you? Have you ever played the game? I'm not taking the piss here, I'm genuinely interested

A goalkeeper is only as good as his defence. The defence offer him no protection whatsoever....it's a joke. I can't recall to many goals this season where I felt Heaton should have saved them. How many goals have been free shots or free headers?

Stick a decent defence in front of him and Heaton would flourish.

Agree with this...

I can't believe people think Heaton is the problem. He has made mistakes like every player does but he is by far the most consistently performing player in the squad.

With our horrific defense we have not had many high scoring losses (apart from Wolves obviously) and this is because of our goalkeeper pulling off at least 1 or 2 outstanding saves per game!

Tom Heaton is far too often the unsung hero of our wins also, as we always tend to panic after taking the lead which then ensues him pulling off incredible saves and trying to motivate the team in front of him to get their fingers out their asses!

[myol'man]

Just over 100 league games in over 8 seasons as a pro? A lot of managers clearly didn't think him good enough until he landed here.

Give Gerks a chance, you never know, we might get a clean sheet.

[Corleone]

Just over 100 league games in over 8 seasons as a pro? A lot of managers clearly didn't think him good enough until he landed here.

Give Gerks a chance, you never know, we might get a clean sheet.

5 of those 8 seasons being for man united....funny how you ignore that. As for Cardiff, he was behind the best keeper in the league.

For me, he will be off at the end of the season regardless.....rumours are Millwall are preparing an offer for him, can't see us keeping him over them.

As for Gerken, he's had his chances, and consistently made mistakes, even this season against Gillingham he was at fault for at least 1 if not both goals. League 1 maybe he will be first choice, but not at this level.

[Lack of Action Man]

I watched Yeovil with my mate the other day when city were away at Ipswich and thier keeper Marek Stech stood out for me. Good handling, made a couple good 1 vs 1 saves, claimed numerous crosses, passionate, commanding and very agile for a 6ft 3 man, he made 2 top corner saves with his finger tips. Only 22 and local. These are the type of players we need to be looking at in gerneal for all positions not just the goalkeeping department.

I went to watch Hereford play Kidderminster Harriers on New Years Day and although we're talking a significant level lower in terms of the football on show, what I was really impressed with was Hereford's keeper James Bittner. A little out of shape admittedly, but very dominant on crosses (not a giant either, was probably only about 6.1 - but strong with it, good physicality about him) and an excellent reaction keeper. If we are to go down, from what I saw he could quite easily play at league 1 level and be decent.

[fatman]

I've seen a lot of goalies in 55 years of watching football and, in my opinion, Heaton would not make the top ten. Granted, it's only an opinion but he doesn't do half the things a good goalie should do. Command his area, organise his defence, bully his way to the ball from corners and set pieces, come off his line quickly enough when threatened and be brave. Now, I know he can look good as a shot stopper but so could Phillips! The facts don't lie, he has conceded goals for fun and I believe he makes defenders nervous because they know his weaknesses. I can only assume that some posters on here have little to compare with!

[Andy082005]

Yeah I have, and to be honest I'm dreadful (no really I am), which is why I don't play professionally and I would rather pay good money and criticise others for it. But that's neither relevant or any of your business. I take it you must be a ex-premier league player and MOTD pundit for you to have such a high horse attitude about you?

Stick a decent defence in front of him (Heaton) and he would flourish? Stick a decent defence in front of Fontaine in goal, and Fontaine would flourish! Poor excuse.

Heaton has done well this year, very well. I'm not making excuses.

I can't think of many mistakes he's made if I'm honest. Certainly nothing that warrants the grief you give him....been one of our better performers.

It makes me laugh how you blame things on him...when it isn't his fault.

As for he isn't great at coming for crosses....not many keepers are these days.

He is a good keeper at this level, not great...but good. Put players of similar calibre around him in the defence and midfield.....we'd be mid table

[tiz]

How many different defence combinations have we tried all with the same result. Nervy mistake ridden and no clean sheets. Common denominator Heaton. I am no fan of fonts right now but even without him we still look the same nervous and flaky. Heaton can stop shots but i am convinced he does not communicate well with players if not vocally but body language wise. There is in my opinion a problem be it positioning mis communication or what ever with him and the defence this despite being vocally loud.