David Camoron Off The Fence And Supporting The Eu

[Mr Mosquito]

Like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown before him, David Camoron is now giving his unconditional support for the hopelessly corrupt and criminal led European Union project. Just as many had suspected - after he lied through his teeth in 2009 in promising us a free and fair referendum on our EU membership if elected - David Camoron is just another EU loving traitor.

The Tories will never win an election outright ever again given the rising loathing for the EU. Good news for Nigel Farage and UKIP as they'll be the main beneficiaries of all the disgruntled Tories that'll now vote for them.

[Eco]

I do like your rebranding of Lord Snooty, sadly don't share your enthusiasm for Nigel Garbage.

[Mr Mosquito]

I do like your rebranding of Lord Snooty, sadly don't share your enthusiasm for Nigel Garbage.

David Camoron is now a known liar for promising a free and fair referendum on Britain's membership of the European Union project and failing/ refusing to deliver. Don't forget, Nigel Farage was a Tory and he left the Tory Party in 1992 due to John Major's treasonous act of signing us up to the EU Maastricht Treaty. Whatever you think of Nigel Farage he's a man of principal for doing that. I've got a lot of respect for the Labour Party old guard like Tony Benn for also making their stand against our membership of the EU project. The trick is to unite the remaining anti EU elements of Labour with those of the same opinion in other political parties.

[CiderHider]

I think the problem is we cant leave the EU.

and because we faffed about so much at the start dilly daddling, plus the EURO... we have too few chips to play with.. :laugh: how did Germany manage to take over Europe, didnt we kick their butts not so long ago for trying to take over, now they are doing it again and there is bugger all we can do :laugh:

I would not mind being in the EU, just as long as we have the chair at the end of the table and all the vitos/poewrs that go with it, too late to renegotiate?

Its a joke, it makes me furious how we ended up like this, I want to punch people becuase of it, preferably those responsible, but i dont know who..

[Mr Mosquito]

I think the problem is we cant leave the EU.

and because we faffed about so much at the start dilly daddling, plus the EURO... we have too few chips to play with.. :laugh: how did Germany manage to take over Europe, didnt we kick their butts not so long ago for trying to take over, now they are doing it again and there is bugger all we can do :laugh:

I would not mind being in the EU, just as long as we have the chair at the end of the table and all the vitos/poewrs that go with it, too late to renegotiate?

Its a joke, it makes me furious how we ended up like this, I want to punch people becuase of it, preferably those responsible, but i dont know who..

Britain's all but bankrupt and we'll have more of a chance of a genuine economic recovery if we leave the EU and are once again free to trade with the whole world again and on our own terms. Time for a political statement..........

All British European Union loving traitor politicians take note: "No forreigne prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence within this realm." (English bill of rights 1689)

Under English constitutional law, Parliament has no power to give governance to a foreign power unless we have been defeated in war. Thus the signing of the Treaty of Rome and the Lisbon Treaty by some of our politicians was nothing short of treason.

As far as I'm concerned, the British politicians that have handed control of the UK to the EU are guilty of High Treason. Soldiers, sailors and airmen fought in two terrible world wars to stop a single European Federal State from taking over Great Britain.

Remember the words of Marcus Tullius Cicero 106 BC - 43 BC: A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly.

But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men.

He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

[CiderHider]

Great post, and this is why we are unable to leave the EU!

We sold out, or they sold us out, ***ing politicians and their bullshit treaties, not to inform us, but to protect them and give them something to do, or try to suggest they do anything! Ass covering pieces of shit. We don't get any say, because if we did, we would throw them out. politicians pay themselves nicely for doing jack shit for society and are trained to convince you they deserve it, scum.

for instance I love how they refer to RBS as the taxpayers bank, in an attempt to make us feel we own something, when really its a massive ****up they have managed to rename and now make our problem, genius.

[Mr Mosquito]

Great post, and this is why we are unable to leave the EU!

We sold out, or they sold us out, ***ing politicians and their bullshit treaties, not to inform us, but to protect them and give them something to do, or try to suggest they do anything! Ass covering pieces of shit. We don't get any say, because if we did, we would throw them out. politicians pay themselves nicely for doing jack shit for society and are trained to convince you they deserve it, scum.

for instance I love how they refer to RBS as the taxpayers bank, in an attempt to make us feel we own something, when really its a massive ****up they have managed to rename and now make our problem, genius.

I've been watching Nigel Farage for years now on BBC Question Time and on Youtube. There was once a time when the audience was so hostile towards Nigel Farage on the BBC that there were strong suspicions of audiences being hand-picked. However, there was a real look of the panic on the faces of the 'main' parties on BBC Question Time last night when Nigel Farage spoke the truth - as always - on the damage that our EU membership is doing to our country. UKIP's coming up fast, and the Lib-Lab-Con know it......they're terrified. Bob Dylan said it best....."The times they are a-changing".

[Red-Robbo]

I've been watching Nigel Farage for years now on BBC Question Time and on Youtube. There was once a time when the audience was so hostile towards Nigel Farage on the BBC that there were strong suspicions of audiences being hand-picked. However, there was a real look of the panic on the faces of the 'main' parties on BBC Question Time last night when Nigel Farage spoke the truth - as always - on the damage that our EU membership is doing to our country. UKIP's coming up fast, and the Lib-Lab-Con know it......they're terrified. Bob Dylan said it best....."The times they are a-changing".

When you apply to go on the audience for QT you are asked if you are a member of a political party. There is a strict balance system and no more than a few party members is allowed in the audience - with QT researchers balancing the three major parties' numbers and including UKIP members who apply etc. The vast majority of the audience will not be partisan - at least as far as Mentorn, the company who make QT can ascertain.

They do the job fairly rigorously, as the programme is watched very carefully by the various party spin doctors and if they think certain shades of activists have 'packed' the programme, they complain within seconds.

Dimbleby, who I've worked with a number of times, has no idea what people's affiliations or lack of them and the questions are all genuinely written by audience members and submitted just before the show is taped.

[herman]

seems cameron is now promising a referendum...

...IF and only IF you vote for him in the next election

absolutely despicable move in my opinion - whatever your take on whether there should be a referendum (and with the amount of misinformation out there, this is a hot issue) - turning the election into an american style single issue politics event

[Monkeh]

seems cameron is now promising a referendum...

...IF and only IF you vote for him in the next election

absolutely despicable move in my opinion - whatever your take on whether there should be a referendum (and with the amount of misinformation out there, this is a hot issue) - turning the election into an american style single issue politics event

that will be the only way they will have a chance at the next election, thats why he's promised it

[Fiale]

that will be the only way they will have a chance at the next election, thats why he's promised it

It's also a pretty big issue - just about everything connects to our EU membership in some way. It's about time we settled it for once and all, do we want political and fiscal union with the other EU states (along the lines of the US) - or not. All we need is for the other parties to follow suit and say they will offer a in/out referendum and it takes all the political wind out of his sails.

[Nibor]

seems cameron is now promising a referendum...

...IF and only IF you vote for him in the next election

How is he supposed to promise that a referendum will happen if he's not prime minister? That would make no sense.

absolutely despicable move in my opinion - whatever your take on whether there should be a referendum (and with the amount of misinformation out there, this is a hot issue) - turning the election into an american style single issue politics event

The election will indeed be single issue and that issue will be the economy. Cameron's chances of being PM for a second term hinge on economic conditions improving. What will be interesting to see is whether he tries to bribe the electorate and if he does whether the Lib Dems can stop him.

[Mr Mosquito]

If UKIP get elected we can get out of the EU immediately without any need for a referendum. All UKIP would need to do is to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act that David Camoron's predecessor and EEC loving Tory traitor - Edward Heath - forced upon us. There is increasing hope of freeing ourselves of the expensive yoke that is the EU project.

[Calculus]

If UKIP get elected we can get out of the EU immediately without any need for a referendum.......

Ho ho! Will be interesting to see what Nigel Farage does now. Of course UKIP haven't a cat in hell's chance of being the next Government, so their supporters can either vote Tory for a referendum or Lab/Lib with no prospect whatever. If Nigel is interested in real change he should back the Prime Minister. If he's only interested in posturing and self promotion then he can continue his good work supporting the Labour Party (electorally speaking, that is). A dilemmal, as you born Bristolians would no doubt say. I for one won't be holding my breath waiting him to do the decent thing.

[Nibor]

Ho ho! Will be interesting to see what Nigel Farage does now. Of course UKIP haven't a cat in hell's chance of being the next Government, so their supporters can either vote Tory for a referendum or Lab/Lib with no prospect whatever. If Nigel is interested in real change he should back the Prime Minister. If he's only interested in posturing and self promotion then he can continue his good work supporting the Labour Party (electorally speaking, that is). A dilemmal, as you born Bristolians would no doubt say. I for one won't be holding my breath waiting him to do the decent thing.

And what should he do if he's really only interested in ripping off expenses?

I imagine he'll vote Labour to stay in surely?

[marshy]

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. – Thomas Jefferson

[Mr Mosquito]

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. – Thomas Jefferson

....exactly Sir, and it took a clever American to say it, and a clever BCFC supporter to remember it and write it.

Nigel Farage is going to continue to be slagged off in the media for bringing real opposition to the EU loving Lib-Lab-Con zealots. In my opinion, Nigel Farage is the best and brightest politician this country has by a country mile.

[Eco]

I find it hard to disagree with any of the following;

At last we may get a debate on Britain's relationship with Europe (Leader, 11 January). What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed. It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multipolar global future.
Simon Sweeney
Lecturer in international political economy, University of York

[Nibor]

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. – Thomas Jefferson

It's a nice thought. Have the USA ever won a war without being in an alliance? Would they have survived without NATO?

[Mr Mosquito]

It's a nice thought. Have the USA ever won a war without being in an alliance? Would they have survived without NATO?

The USA beat the Mexicans with no help during the Mexican/ U.S. border war. I know that because I'm directly descended from a U.S. dragoon junior officer that fought in that war.

[Barrs Court Red]

Yes, vs Mexico. It also beat itself in a civil war.

I don't think they've ever lost a war, although it could be said Vietnam was a defeat, it wasn't the conventional side of the war they lost.

I

[Mr Mosquito]

Yes, vs Mexico. It also beat itself in a civil war.

I don't think they've ever lost a war, although it could be said Vietnam was a defeat, it wasn't the conventional side of the war they lost.

I

It was one hell of a victory. The U.S. hit Mexico with a 3 pronged assault during 1846-48: over the Rio Grande, West to Mexican held California and an amphibious assault and overland march through jungle to take Mexico City itself. My ancestor served under General Worth and General Taylor - General Taylor became President just after this war. As for Vietnam - yes it was a disaster but the Vietnamese beat the French just before and the might of China as well just after.

[Fiale]

Didn't the Canadians beat the US - leading to the sacking and burning of York Town, and the retaliation of the sacking and burning of Washington.

[Mr Mosquito]

Didn't the Canadians beat the US - leading to the sacking and burning of York Town, and the retaliation of the sacking and burning of Washington.

There were many border skirmishes between the U.S. and British Canadians during the early 1800s. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Canadians but the British Army that burned Washington D.C. and the White House in 1814.

[Fiale]

I find it hard to disagree with any of the following;

What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;

I will not address most of what was said because it suggest that we are some sort of backwards nation that would have stood still in the 1970's as the rest of world moved on.

The trade thing though really annoys me - that 57% is bending the truth/outright lie - the majority of trade done by the UK is within our own borders, that 57% qouted is overseas trade only. And even then, so what - we trade with the US, China/Asia, Africa - we would still do trade with them, and seeing as we import more from EU countries than we export I can guarantee they will not cut their own throats just to spite us - can you imagine throughout the EU scenes like a French ministers saying - Pour the Champagne down the drains, the UK our biggest market (by 78%) is no longer allowed to import it - not going to happen. None of the countries are going to do things like that - we would just open a free trade agreement.

We could pull out of CAP and the CFP and see huge boosts when we do.

Britain has membership in G20, G8 Nations, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, seats on the International Monetary Fund Board of Governors, Seats at the World Trade Organisation. We have a commonwealth of 54 nations, London is the financial capital of the world, we has the sixth largest economy, and are in the top ten manufacturing nations in the world. We are not going to lose any of that, in fact the EU if anything will see us lose these some of this as they push for the EU to be presented as a bloc instead of member nations on some of these world stages - giving up such things for a common policy of which we are 70ish votes out of soon over 800 is pretty mad.

[Mr Mosquito]

I will not address most of what was said because it suggest that we are some sort of backwards nation that would have stood still in the 1970's as the rest of world moved on.

The trade thing though really annoys me - that 57% is bending the truth/outright lie - the majority of trade done by the UK is within our own borders, that 57% qouted is overseas trade only. And even then, so what - we trade with the US, China/Asia, Africa - we would still do trade with them, and seeing as we import more from EU countries than we export I can guarantee they will not cut their own throats just to spite us - can you imagine throughout the EU scenes like a French ministers saying - Pour the Champagne down the drains, the UK our biggest market (by 78%) is no longer allowed to import it - not going to happen. None of the countries are going to do things like that - we would just open a free trade agreement.

We could pull out of CAP and the CFP and see huge boosts when we do.

Britain has membership in G20, G8 Nations, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, seats on the International Monetary Fund Board of Governors, Seats at the World Trade Organisation. We have a commonwealth of 54 nations, London is the financial capital of the world, we has the sixth largest economy, and are in the top ten manufacturing nations in the world. We are not going to lose any of that, in fact the EU if anything will see us lose these some of this as they push for the EU to be presented as a bloc instead of member nations on some of these world stages - giving up such things for a common policy of which we are 70ish votes out of soon over 800 is pretty mad.

Excellent reply. The university lecturer - Simon Sweeney - that wrote Eco's article seems like a typical EU loving Cultural Marxist - universities, the BBC, and the Labour Party are infested with them. The EU project has also lowered wages and living standards for the UK people. We're all feeling the pinch and it doesn't help matters with our Government handing over £60 million PER DAY of our hard earned taxes to the EU.

[BS3_RED]

Yes, vs Mexico. It also beat itself in a civil war.

I don't think they've ever lost a war, although it could be said Vietnam was a defeat, it wasn't the conventional side of the war they lost.

I

Depends what you class as "Lost a war". The Brits sacking Washington and burning the original White house to the ground in the war of 1812 certainly was not a victory.

[Nibor]

The USA beat the Mexicans with no help during the Mexican/ U.S. border war. I know that because I'm directly descended from a U.S. dragoon junior officer that fought in that war.

I think beating up Mexico is more bullying than war. I'm pretty sure they beat a banana republic once without help too.

I don't think the whole "no alliances" idea would have served them very well with that record though.

Oh and Vietnam was a definite defeat. I don't think you can lose a war on foreign soil any more soundly than that.

[marshy]

It's a nice thought. Have the USA ever won a war without being in an alliance? Would they have survived without NATO?

Jefferson thought that the primary purpose of government was defence of the realm and was passionately opposed to any involvement in European affairs.

Who knows what he would have thought about the scheming of Mao in Korea and Vietnam.

[Kid in the Riot]

There were many border skirmishes between the U.S. and British Canadians during the early 1800s. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Canadians but the British Army that burned Washington D.C. and the White House in 1814.

It was definitely the British. America was attacking Canada so the Canadians gave us a call and we went and beat up the American army all the way from the Canadian border to Washington! As you say the White House was famously burned and indeed gets its name from being painted white after the fire damage.

Not sure if you could say they lost it as such, but America were certainly taking a bit of a pasting from the British Empire in the War of 1812. We ran out of money though and were preoccupied fighting the French so in the end a resolution was made and we left America alone.