David Camoron Off The Fence And Supporting The Eu

[Mr Mosquito]

I think beating up Mexico is more bullying than war. I'm pretty sure they beat a banana republic once without help too.

I don't think the whole "no alliances" idea would have served them very well with that record though.

Oh and Vietnam was a definite defeat. I don't think you can lose a war on foreign soil any more soundly than that.

What makes the U.S. Mexico border conflict more interesting for me is that I've got my ancestor's documents and even news cuttings from the war - quite a collection. It's the USA's forgotten War of 1846-48.....

.......U.S. President Polk expected a quick fight, but Mexico refused to surrender, and the conflict became increasingly unpopular in the U.S. In the end, Mexican troops were no match for America's better-equipped soldiers, led by seasoned generals.

The price of victory for the U.S. was high. Almost 14,000 Americans died, most from tropical diseases they contracted during the fighting. The war cost more than $100 million, the equivalent of $2.9 billion today.

For Mexico, the cost was far greater--more than 25,000 dead and the loss of a third of its territory, 525,000 square miles that included all of the current states of California, Nevada, Utah, and New Mexico; most of Arizona and Colorado; and parts of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming. In exchange, the U.S. paid $15 million. (While Polk is often ignored in history books, his war with Mexico ended up adding nearly as much territory to the U.S. as Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase in 1803.)

The peace treaty that ended the war was signed on February 2, 1848, in Guadalupe Hidalgo, a small town north of Mexico City. During the ceremony, a Mexican official, Bernardo Couto, leaned over to the American delegate and sighed: "This must be a proud moment for you; no less proud for you than humiliating for us."

Source: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/America%27s+forgotten+war%3A+the+Mexican-American+War+(1846-48)+may+be...-a0269775343

A great write up on Wikipedia as well at the link below, on the American side you had legendary soldiers such as the great Robert E.Lee and Ulysses S Grant who would later be bitter adversaries in the American Civil War...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

[Eco]

What makes the U.S. Mexico border conflict more interesting for me is that I've got my ancestor's documents and even news cuttings from the war - quite a collection. It's the USA's forgotten War of 1846-48.....

.......U.S. President Polk expected a quick fight, but Mexico refused to surrender, and the conflict became increasingly unpopular in the U.S. In the end, Mexican troops were no match for America's better-equipped soldiers, led by seasoned generals.

The price of victory for the U.S. was high. Almost 14,000 Americans died, most from tropical diseases they contracted during the fighting. The war cost more than $100 million, the equivalent of $2.9 billion today.

For Mexico, the cost was far greater--more than 25,000 dead and the loss of a third of its territory, 525,000 square miles that included all of the current states of California, Nevada, Utah, and New Mexico; most of Arizona and Colorado; and parts of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming. In exchange, the U.S. paid $15 million. (While Polk is often ignored in history books, his war with Mexico ended up adding nearly as much territory to the U.S. as Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase in 1803.)

The peace treaty that ended the war was signed on February 2, 1848, in Guadalupe Hidalgo, a small town north of Mexico City. During the ceremony, a Mexican official, Bernardo Couto, leaned over to the American delegate and sighed: "This must be a proud moment for you; no less proud for you than humiliating for us."

Source: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/America%27s+forgotten+war%3A+the+Mexican-American+War+(1846-48)+may+be...-a0269775343

A great write up on Wikipedia as well at the link below, on the American side you had legendary soldiers such as the great Robert E.Lee and Ulysses S Grant who would later be bitter adversaries in the American Civil War...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

Remember the Alamo !

[Mr Mosquito]

Remember the Alamo !

Indeed, the Battle of the Alamo was 1836. I bet the U.S. soldiers during the war of 1846-48 were out for revenge against the Mexicans because all the Texian defenders at the Alamo were killed. Mexican commander Santa Anna was a senior commander in both conflicts.

[Dorset_Cider]

Like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown before him, David Camoron is now giving his unconditional support for the hopelessly corrupt and criminal led European Union project. Just as many had suspected - after he lied through his teeth in 2009 in promising us a free and fair referendum on our EU membership if elected - David Camoron is just another EU loving traitor.

The Tories will never win an election outright ever again given the rising loathing for the EU. Good news for Nigel Farage and UKIP as they'll be the main beneficiaries of all the disgruntled Tories that'll now vote for them.

Stop it Gobbers....... let's face it all politicians are a bunch of corruptocrats..... ain't just the Tory Boys ..... Labour let you and the rest of us down bigtime too.

What gets me is that I now feel no confidence in any political party and god forbid we know one of em will govern......

1984 or 2013 be warned!

[herman]

How is he supposed to promise that a referendum will happen if he's not prime minister? That would make no sense.

The election will indeed be single issue and that issue will be the economy. Cameron's chances of being PM for a second term hinge on economic conditions improving. What will be interesting to see is whether he tries to bribe the electorate and if he does whether the Lib Dems can stop him.

no offence but thats a weak excuse

he could have held this referendum by now, having announced it 2 years ago

but no, he wants to capitalise on the misinformed xenophobia sweeping the country in order to win an election, regardless of how it is already decimating investment in the uk

[Calculus]

no offence but thats a weak excuse

he could have held this referendum by now, having announced it 2 years ago

but no, he wants to capitalise on the misinformed xenophobia sweeping the country in order to win an election, regardless of how it is already decimating investment in the uk

No he couldn't. Firstly, as Leader of the Opposition, he promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The Labour government then approved it, arguably breaking one of their pledges by making it law without a referendum. By the time Cameron became PM it was ready law and couldn't be reversed. Secondly, not only was an In/Out referendum not in the last Tory manifesto, he didn't win an outright majority and couldn't get it past the Lib/Lab consensus even if he wanted to. I have no doubt that Cameron would prefer to continue in a much reformed Europe but a least we'll get a debate and a choice if he wins his majority next time. Cameron is taking a big risk with the many in his own party that support Europe (people like Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine) but he is right in his calculation that 1) Europe needs to change and 2) the people are in the mood to have their say. Interesting times.

[Nibor]

no offence but thats a weak excuse

he could have held this referendum by now, having announced it 2 years ago

but no, he wants to capitalise on the misinformed xenophobia sweeping the country in order to win an election, regardless of how it is already decimating investment in the uk

It's not an excuse it's a fact. He can't hold a referendum now because it's a coalition and the Lib Dems won't allow it. Nobody other than the Tories wants a referendum so the only way there will be one is if there's a majority Tory government.

I agree there is a lot of misinformed xenophobia, but there is at least an equal amount of lefty propaganda. It is up to the politicians to make the case for in or out (at the moment I'd vote in) and Cameron is right that before we can have that vote we have to know what we're being offered. The current crisis will change the EU a lot so why vote blind?

I despise partisan politics, people should look at issues on their merits and the logic of the argument not with some preconceived idea that red is right and blue is wrong. Save that for football.

[Mr Mosquito]

Nobody other than the Tories wants a referendum so the only way there will be one is if there's a majority Tory government.

Catch 22 for the Tories. The only way that the Tories can win the election of 2015, with a decent working majority, is with the help of the former Tories of UKIP. Without the lost legions of former Conservative voters that now vote UKIP they're becoming a spent force. Remember that the Tories were down between 2-5,000 votes at every Parliamentary constituency at the last General Election and that probably cost them about 40 odd seats !!!!! The UKIP following is getting stronger by the day with disenchanted Labour voters now joining the fold.

There's also another ace card that the French can play to help get us out of the EU. General Charles André Joseph Marie de Gaulle was right in that the French should never have allowed us to join the predecessor of the EU - the EEC. Charles de Gaulle warned that letting the English enter the EEC was inconsistent with Europe's interests. It would result in an Atlantist, liberal and pro-american transformation of Europe and a big mess that would lead to the destruction of the EEC. The French may yet get us booted out. Viva la France if they do !!!!! All the Kinnock family, Lady Catherine Ashton and various others that do well on the EU gravy train will have to do their leaching elsewhere.

[Mr Mosquito]

Edward Heath lied, Gordon Brown lied, David Cameron lied, let the British people decide if we should stay in the EU with a free and fair referendum now. My generation never voted for a European Union and my parents' generation voted for a Common Market not a European Superstate. Now we are paying for the likes of the Kinnock family at around a £million a year plus thousands of other civil servants and political has beens with their snouts in the EU trough.

[Nibor]

The only way that the Tories can win the election of 2015, with a decent working majority, is with the help of the former Tories of UKIP.

Not really. UKIP are and will continue to be an irrelevant single issue party. They get popular in some opinion polls every mid term that don't translate into votes in general elections because they are the Tory protest vote party much like the Lib Dems are for Labour. People don't vote on abstract single issues in general elections.

The election will be decided on the economy, just like it always is, not the EU sideshow. If things are going well by the time we vote the Tories will do better, if not, it'll probably be a messy coalition again because people still won't be ready to trust Labour when they actually get into the booth particularly with the unelectable Milliband/Balls combo in charge.

[Mr Mosquito]

Not really. UKIP are and will continue to be an irrelevant single issue party. They get popular in some opinion polls every mid term that don't translate into votes in general elections because they are the Tory protest vote party much like the Lib Dems are for Labour. People don't vote on abstract single issues in general elections.

The election will be decided on the economy, just like it always is, not the EU sideshow. If things are going well by the time we vote the Tories will do better, if not, it'll probably be a messy coalition again because people still won't be ready to trust Labour when they actually get into the booth particularly with the unelectable Milliband/Balls combo in charge.

In my opinion, the field of British politics has changed. People remember the lies and warmongering of the Blair/ Brown era together with the mass uncontrolled immigration. The Labour Party are disliked over those issues by even their core voters. Next we have the Tories who should have benefitted from the mistakes of Labour but they didn't because they've lost so many of their voters to UKIP that they couldn't form a majority government and they had to go in with the Liberals. Now we have the looming impact of a further wave of poor immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania - due to the EU Single Market - and their right to live and work here and claim benefits. People are fed up with the EU and so the EU will definately be the major issue at the next election.

[Monkeh]

In my opinion, the field of British politics has changed. People remember the lies and warmongering of the Blair/ Brown era together with the mass uncontrolled immigration. The Labour Party are disliked over those issues by even their core voters. Next we have the Tories who should have benefitted from the mistakes of Labour but they didn't because they've lost so many of their voters to UKIP that they couldn't form a majority government and they had to go in with the Liberals. Now we have the looming impact of a further wave of poor immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania - due to the EU Single Market - and their right to live and work here and claim benefits. People are fed up with the EU and so the EU will definately be the major issue at the next election.

yet labour have won pretty much every bi-election since the Tor/dems have been in power,

I don't think a tory or a lib dem govenment will be in power at the next general election unless the econmy starts to grow by about 2.5% a quarter every quarter up untl the election is called,

This govenement has already lost avg joe public with all the cuts

[Mr Mosquito]

yet labour have won pretty much every bi-election since the Tor/dems have been in power,

I don't think a tory or a lib dem govenment will be in power at the next general election unless the econmy starts to grow by about 2.5% a quarter every quarter up untl the election is called,

This govenement has already lost avg joe public with all the cuts

The Lib-Dem vote should collapse quite nicely given Nick Clegg's lies over there being no increase in student fees promise. That's 50 Lib-Dem seats up for grabs. Voters in the 18-25 age range have been hit hardest with little chance of an affordable home or even a job for many of them. It'll be interesting to see how they vote. For me, the best I can hope for to get us out of the EU project is a coalition government of Tories and UKIP. I would hope that UKIP would ask for massive concessions from the Tories in return for their help including criminal prosecutions against all the business leaders and politicians that sold us down the river of EU subjugation.

[Nibor]

In my opinion, the field of British politics has changed. People remember the lies and warmongering of the Blair/ Brown era together with the mass uncontrolled immigration. The Labour Party are disliked over those issues by even their core voters. Next we have the Tories who should have benefitted from the mistakes of Labour but they didn't because they've lost so many of their voters to UKIP that they couldn't form a majority government and they had to go in with the Liberals. Now we have the looming impact of a further wave of poor immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania - due to the EU Single Market - and their right to live and work here and claim benefits. People are fed up with the EU and so the EU will definately be the major issue at the next election.

Rubbish, nothing's changed. People will vote along party lines with the middle ground swayed by the economy. That's the way it's always been and that's the way it will continue to be.

[Red-Robbo]

Depends what you class as "Lost a war". The Brits sacking Washington and burning the original White house to the ground in the war of 1812 certainly was not a victory.

I think the War of 1812 has certainly got to go down in the record books as a no score draw.

Interestingly, the American's biggest victory (the Battle of New Orleans) occured months after peace had been declared. The news just hadn't trickled down to those involved.

[Dorset_Cider]

Did the last Labour government buy us............. yes I would guess they did.

Like the Tory government before them, some if not all of us got a little richer

I know on reflection that I did (strangely enough under a labour government) but that was mainly through benefits despite being employed.

In truth I'd guess we are all now paying the price for this generosity.

Where as the Tory government seem to be the enemy now, they also inherited the empty bank balance left by Tony B.Liar (A Gobbers Phrase?)

Regarding Company tax.... And David B.Liar...... I would state that regarding Tax & paying it...... it is a smoke screen

No, David, actually I do not care about the Tax situation regarding companies such as Amazoooooin ...... In fact I want the best goods at the cheapest prices

And I see that you are using emotive language to try to fool the UK Tax payer into funding your 'Get Out Of Jail Card'

Where as the 'Rich' just get away with so much more than most of us......... If you are you or me... we probably pay more tax than anyone that is truly mega rich......... But that said it is a case (as I have stated) that.... when it comes to purchasing goods with what money is left from our income..... we do really want the cheapest price....... WHY?...... because we are being stuffed by the circumstances that we find ourselves in...... you know, no pay increase, hefty utillitiy bills etc

[Mr Mosquito]

Did the last Labour government buy us............. yes I would guess they did.Like the Tory government before them, some if not all of us got a little richerI know on reflection that I did (strangely enough under a labour government) but that was mainly through benefits despite being employed.In truth I'd guess we are all now paying the price for this generosity.Where as the Tory government seem to be the enemy now, they also inherited the empty bank balance left by Tony B.Liar (A Gobbers Phrase?)Regarding Company tax.... And David B.Liar...... I would state that regarding Tax & paying it...... it is a smoke screenNo, David, actually I do not care about the Tax situation regarding companies such as Amazoooooin ...... In fact I want the best goods at the cheapest pricesAnd I see that you are using emotive language to try to fool the UK Tax payer into funding your 'Get Out Of Jail Card'Where as the 'Rich' just get away with so much more than most of us......... If you are you or me... we probably pay more tax than anyone that is truly mega rich......... But that said it is a case (as I have stated) that.... when it comes to purchasing goods with what money is left from our income..... we do really want the cheapest price....... WHY?...... because we are being stuffed by the circumstances that we find ourselves in...... you know, no pay increase, hefty utillitiy bills etc

My Mrs is delighted with Amazon and the service they provide. Believe it or not, David Cameron has contacted me in person to tell me his name is 'Cameron' not 'Camoron'. I actually think that Camoron has been dealt a rubbish set of cards due to the mess left by the EU loving traitors that are Labour. I prefer Cameron to Milipede of Labour but I'll still vote UKIP to help put an end to our membership of the EU tyranny.

[Monkeh]

david camoron is a lier and the sooner this coalition falls a part the better