LondonBristolian Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Possibly an element to it, but think of many of the goals conceded this season: X inviting players to walk past him, Y standing planted like a rabbit in the headlights. Football is not some mysterious game. You put the ball in one net and prevent it going in the other. If players with little between the ears (Agbonlahor, Windass, Joe Cole to name just a few) can play at the highest level the crap performances cannot in my opinion be attributed to lack of clear instructions - did Fonts need telling 'tackle their forward'? Remember David James was very complimentary of McInnes when he came in, players are now complimenting SOD. My opinion is that managers/head coaches are actually not that important. Players however have too much power and it is now far too easy to remove the manager than the player(s). During AVB's Chelsea reign I was really hoping the Russian would stand by him and allow him to rip that side apart and this mark the turning of the tide. Instead he bottled it and booted out AVB. Are we to believe AVB is incompetent?- I don't! Aside from the fact I think that's a bit harsh on Joe Cole, I think part of it is that, if things aren't working, a change of methods can be good. I agree the importance of managers and coaches is probably over-stated and that a lot of the mistakes players made weren't due to a lack of instructions but I do think constant changes to personnel and formations (especially if the formation/team wasn't decided until late on so players hadn't trained with it fully - which I don't know if was the case of not with McInnes) do make it a lot harder for players to play well - I don't think it's a coincidence that McInnes (and actually Johnson before that) had their best runs of success with the club when they were picking largely the same team week-in, week-out (as I think McInnes did at the start of his reign) and things fell apart when there seemed to be a new team selection every week... Under McInnes City seemed to spend a lot of time second-guessing what the opposition was going to do and adjusting to play against them and didn't really seem to have a clear idea of a way of playing themselves. And obviously on an individual level players have to take responsibility for their mistakes but the manager does have an important role in ensuring the players function as a team and that players know when they should be trying to sort out a problem and when they should be leaving it to their teammates and I think that was lacking under McInnes. Going back to Fontaine, it's good to see him improve but I think the more sensible of us accepted earlier in the season that he was a decent Championship defender playing poorly, whereas now he is a decent championship defender playing well. I think we should keep hold of him but I also don't think we should let a good few games obscure the fact that centre-back is an area where we really need to improve and fast. Fontaine is a useful player but not one I think should be an automatic selection in the way he has been in recent seasons - clearly the reason for that is because he's the best we've got but I think that says more about our weaknesses than anything else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheasant plucker Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 It was obvious for all to see tha under DMc the team struggled for organisation. It was evident when we had the ball in that no-one really seemed to know what the philosophy was, so it was "lump it up" or give it to Albert. In transition we were to slow to get our shape and there were huge areas of space infront of our back four in central midfield. The players also didnt seem the know who was tracking back marking and when to ckose down etc. On reflection this seems to be a training, coaching issue, although time will tell how effective SOD methods are and how good certain players are at following coaching/instructions long term. These flaws have meant that we were poor and easily exposed at this level, and I was very surprised DMc was found lacking in the end in pretty basic foundimental management, I realky expected him to turn that side of things around - but the piont im leading upto is......players do try, its a myth that they dont, all that happens is the team losses confidence and some players suffer with confidence issues more than others, its evident that Fonts needs an arm round the shoulder and positive, constuctive critisism if hes to thrive, this I believe hes been getting under SOD. One of the firdt things SOD said was that Fonts and Carey were his best CB partnership, snd im sure privately hes been saying alot more to the players. Fonts didint become shite overnight, and hell never be world class, but handled properly, im confident him and quite a few other players can do a good job for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Under McInnes City seemed to spend a lot of time second-guessing what the opposition was going to do and adjusting to play against them and didn't really seem to have a clear idea of a way of playing themselves. And obviously on an individual level players have to take responsibility for their mistakes but the manager does have an important role in ensuring the players function as a team and that players know when they should be trying to sort out a problem and when they should be leaving it to their teammates and I think that was lacking under McInnes. Not just under McInness LB. Under sucessive managers, including Johnson in his latter seasons, I think our problems have started because we have concentrated more on negating the oppositions strengths rather than maximising on ours. Similarly, for too long we have signed players because of what the achieved at a previous club but then ask them to perfrom a different role when they get here, and wonder why they don't look so good at AG. How many goalscorers become impotent with us because we ask them to play wide left or coverback because our midfield or defence aren't up to the task? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 After what many have posted on here, i guess they're now too embarassed to eat humble pie. One swallow don`t make a summer. The man has been below par all season. Yesterday he was on par. Nothing to do with humble pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Players like him with his performances this season are the reason we are in the mess we are currently in. Suddenly he's like a new man. Sooner he's out of this club the better for the long term future of Bristol City I'm not sure anyone could deny that "performances this season are the reason we are in the mess we are currently in" but unless we acknowledge that the manager can influence these and that he is ultimately responsible why do we even have one?? A manager's primary function is to get the best he can from the resources available - if SO'D can sustain the improvement as DMcI could not then he will be a success - if he cannot then he will not. Our squad is no different from anyone else's in that some of our players need more help than others to perform at their best. Can't we just be pleased and relieved that Liam seems to have turned a corner and hope that he can maintain it for at least the next 15 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 No.. thats a very realistic quote.. I guess you didn't watch him in the mciness era then??? Have you only been watching fontaine for the last 3-4 games?? A "realistic" prediction? maybe - but ultimately an incorrect one - no need for humble pie but Liam has played an important role in two clean sheets and I for one hope he will in several more over the next three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Conspiracy theorists my ar#e. Much of this squad has seen of managers before McInnes and if allowed to remain I've no doubt would see off more than O'Driscoll. Anyone who has read my posts before will notice I actively dislike much of our squad. Reason being not lack of ability (which can be excused) but lack of effort and application since few games into the season. Fonts has been a disgrace to the shirt for much of the season and the reason being for BASIC defensive errors week after week after week. Do I believe that within weeks O'Driscoll has (re)educated him of the basics? Has he balls!!! I will not be fooled by many of the turned performances, just as I was not last season as players were carried off because we'd (just) escaped relegation. I really hope in the summer we say foxtrot oscar to the vast majority of the squad whether we stay up or not. They've had an easy run. For too long vitriol has been aimed at X in charge whilst the players show form during the run in and honeymoon period and revert to type in time. Time to rebuild with hungry players who actually take pride in their performance. There are few others than Stead and Carey in this current squad of whom that can be said! Perhaps you could explain what part active "dislike of much of our squad" plays in the role of a Bristol City Supporter???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Perhaps you could explain what part active "dislike of much of our squad" plays in the role of a Bristol City Supporter???? I love football and support THE CLUB, which is much bigger than the current playing squad. Why is it (seemingly) acceptable to turn on the bloke at the helm but not on the players who turned in those performances which lacked effort?! I have no reason to doubt many players are 'pulling the wool' just as they have done time and time before. I will still cheer a goal, I will still applaud passion and fire, I will still encourage come 3pm on a saturday, I will NOT, however, cheer many of them being retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo7 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Mcinnes never stopped him simply clearing a football Bloke will be shit again in a few months as will Elliot and nyatanga Whilst I can understand (but do not agree with) the condemnation of Liam and acknowledge he has been close to ever-present in this desperate season and has been clearly at fault for numerous goals conceded, the inclusion of Marvin and Lewin in your group displays both blind prejudice and lack of judgement. Marvin has struggled at length to regain his fitness following serious injury and has at times looked finished BUT has played well in most our successes away from home (before DMcI's departure) and has once again shown the strength and size of his heart when called upon in adversity in the last two home games. A much fitter player with more natural talent would have struggled to give what he gave yesterday less than 60 hours after playing at high altitude on the other side of the World - any suggestion that he does not care enough or work hard enough (if there is such a suggestion) is frankly absurd, ungrateful and unforgivable! Lewin, for all the criticism he probably deserved in his first couple of seasons here - he was probably our most consistent defender in the 2011-12 season until his injury and has hardly played this season - in my view mainly because he is left-footed. In all honesty can anyone say he is responsible for the predicament we are in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardy Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thought Fonts was MOTM yesterday never put a foot wrong all game! Was impressed with Pearson too,he closed the opposition down very quickly and stuck his foot in and won the ball countless amount of times. Was a good all round team performance and we must have a lot of confidence going into the Cardiff game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colombo Robin Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Mcinnes never stopped him simply clearing a football Bloke will be shit again in a few months as will Elliot and nyatanga Great support just when we need it! 29AR spot on And Colombo red, this squad did exactly the same 18 months ago They will **** it off again soon once they have got bored off o'driscoll Maybe thats true but with 15 games left and a great escape once again on the cards, why bother posting stuff thats just gonna damage the new found confidence of 3 of our players who could play a big part in our survival struggle. Save the negativity for the end of the season post mortem if it comes to that but for now just get behind the lads! Posts like that are nothing but detrimental to the cause right now. Try SUPPORTING your team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepers Ball Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Im not eating humble pie. When he shoves his face in the way of a shot , clears off the line and wins most challenges THEN I'll give praise that is deserved At the moment he is just doing what he's supposed to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 He's done pretty well for us since So'D has arrived though. nothing has changed as the bigger picture-SOD priority as per player aquisition will still be a commanding c/half..and another c/midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colombo Robin Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 People do support the team at the games. But this is a forum to exchange views - nothing to do with support. At the ground on matchday is not the only way in which fans can support their club. My point is this. All 3 players put in good shifts yesterday and their confidence is starting to return. Hows it gonna help the feel good factor when fans write stuff slating players....and this is the best bit.... THE DAY AFTER THEY HAVE PLAYED WELL???!! Sometimes i think we underestimate the effect fans can have on the players, both positive and negative. If you think we should sell all three in the summer then fair enough but right now they´re what we´ve got and them playing with confidence could make the difference between us staying up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footie Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thought both him and nyatanga looked solid yesterday, one particular slide tackle from fonts in the first half seems to stick in the memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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