Where Is The Fight?

[TRL]

How people respond isn't voluntary, it's a subconscious thing.

No team low on confidence and success ever gets galvanised by criticism or worse by defeatism from its own "supporters", that's nonsense.

A poor set of excuses.

So explain John Ward's teams turnaround then. Where the man himself said he used the abuse his team were getting to create a them against us attitude. I bought the team together and they went on to get promotion.

By your response, it would suggest that never happened and was scrubbed from history?

What is all this nonsense about excuses? Can't see I made any. The excuses seem to be coming from you for the performance of the team being down to forum negativity. Can't see that the forum positivity at the start of the season helped them much either. So what causes good or bad performances?

[Nibor]

So explain John Ward's teams turnaround then. Where the man himself said he used the abuse his team were getting to create a them against us attitude. I bought the team together and they went on to get promotion.

By your response, it would suggest that never happened and was scrubbed from history?

How does the situation when John Ward took over bear any relation whatsoever to the situation now?

We were above mid table in the middle of March having won more games than we'd lost, in no danger at all and quite clearly a team that was ready to kick on.

There was no shattered confidence or baggage and no fear factor.

From my recollection you've also misinterpreted the view Ward expressed quite a bit. I'd be interested to read those remarks.

What is all this nonsense about excuses? Can't see I made any. The excuses seem to be coming from you for the performance of the team being down to forum negativity. Can't see that the forum positivity at the start of the season helped them much either. So what causes good or bad performances?

Explaining away damaging negativity and defeatism by pretending it could be positive is making excuses as far as I can see.

I'm just explaining why fans right now should be supporting and defiant rather than miserable and defeatist. I think it's really quite logical, I can't see how any fan can realistically claim that the attitude expressed in this thread is going to do anything other than be a drag - whether minor or major.

[TRL]

How does the situation when John Ward took over bear any relation whatsoever to the situation now?

We were above mid table in the middle of March having won more games than we'd lost, in no danger at all and quite clearly a team that was ready to kick on.

There was no shattered confidence or baggage and no fear factor.

From my recollection you've also misinterpreted the view Ward expressed quite a bit. I'd be interested to read those remarks.Explaining away damaging negativity and defeatism by pretending it could be positive is making excuses as far as I can see.

I'm just explaining why fans right now should be supporting and defiant rather than miserable and defeatist. I think it's really quite logical, I can't see how any fan can realistically claim that the attitude expressed in this thread is going to do anything other than be a drag - whether minor or major.

No. I didn't even attempt to make an excuse. I was just pointing out it could be used in another way.

Situations different, don't try and deflect things Nibor, these moanings have been coming to ahead for much longer than the last few weeks, and you know it. So it is exactly the same. Difference is wards players reacted with positive performances and went on to get promotion, where this team went from cock up to another to get into the position they are in now.

Making your here and now argument a little irrelevant. A season full of crap is not going to make people feel particularly hsppy. And if yoy think diffeent you must be quite detached from reality.

I choose to moan here rather than at games, as I see no point at a game, if I were to lose it at a game it would be a whole load of swear words that mean nothing, which the players may or may not hear. By writing here, the players and management have a choice to read it or not. After all, they don't have to logon do they.

[Nibor]

No. I didn't even attempt to make an excuse. I was just pointing out it could be used in another way.

Situations different, don't try and deflect things Nibor, these moanings have been coming to ahead for much longer than the last few weeks, and you know it. So it is exactly the same. Difference is wards players reacted with positive performances and went on to get promotion, where this team went from cock up to another to get into the position they are in now.

I'm not sure what you're talking about to be honest. You're alledging that sixteen years ago there was some moaning that helped the team. I doubt that very much, but since the team then was in a position that is nothing like the one we're in now it's completely irrelevant anyway.

Making your here and now argument a little irrelevant. A season full of crap is not going to make people feel particularly hsppy. And if yoy think diffeent you must be quite detached from reality.

I choose to moan here rather than at games, as I see no point at a game, if I were to lose it at a game it would be a whole load of swear words that mean nothing, which the players may or may not hear. By writing here, the players and management have a choice to read it or not. After all, they don't have to logon do they.

Yeah, wah wah wah, I'm upset, wah wah wah, poor old me. It's simple. If you're a fan who wants the team to do well instead of whining and making excuses for the whining you could either a) shutup so you don't have a negative impact or b) support. Just a thought.

[TRL]

I'm not sure what you're talking about to be honest. You're alledging that sixteen years ago there was some moaning that helped the team. I doubt that very much, but since the team then was in a position that is nothing like the one we're in now it's completely irrelevant anyway.Yeah, wah wah wah, I'm upset, wah wah wah, poor old me. It's simple. If you're a fan who wants the team to do well instead of whining and making excuses for the whining you could either a) shutup so you don't have a negative impact or b) support. Just a thought.

Okay nibor it isn't exactly a hard concept to understand, but gloss over it if it doesn't suit your particular argument. I feel it maybe you can't find a good enough argument to back your argument so went to the wa wa wa route who taught you that?

[Nibor]

Okay nibor it isn't exactly a hard concept to understand, but gloss over it if it doesn't suit your particular argument. I feel it maybe you can't find a good enough argument to back your argument so went to the wa wa wa route who taught you that?

You're just doing your usual trick of ignoring every point that's made and going on irrelevant tangents so I'll leave it with one simple point that you can ignore/avoid/excuse as you wish.

It is certain and obvious that negativity and defeatism at this point will give us no help whatsoever and may be damaging. Equally, positivity and defiance might do nothing to help at all but they certainly won't do any harm and they might help a little or even a lot.

Therefore the only motivation to be negative and defeatist is so you can be smug about being right. A supporter should see the obvious choice and people are welcome to draw their own conclusions.

Have fun.

[TRL]

You're just doing your usual trick of ignoring every point that's made and going on irrelevant tangents so I'll leave it with one simple point that you can ignore/avoid/excuse as you wish.

It is certain and obvious that negativity and defeatism at this point will give us no help whatsoever and may be damaging. Equally, positivity and defiance might do nothing to help at all but they certainly won't do any harm and they might help a little or even a lot.

Therefore the only motivation to be negative and defeatist is so you can be smug about being right. A supporter should see the obvious choice and people are welcome to draw their own conclusions.

Have fun.

I answered yo. Gave an example and you choose to ignore it with smoke and mirrors and other diversionary tactics. Which often the norm. When expanded you choose not to understand. Which is your prerogative nibor. but a childish way of of trying to backup your own stance.

There are more than one way to skin a cat. Clearly the same trusted method will not work for everyone all the time But it seems you believe it will. Everything is black and white in your world Nibor. Great way to live your life if you happen not to live on planet earth.

You made the point yourself. People are different. How they react is different.. that being the case your get behind them stance might be the completely wrong thing to do if there personality dictates you get the best out of them when they are pissed off.

So yes I think you are wrong. Both could be right depending on personnel. Not just your opinion of what is right. Which is what I was trying to point out.

[Chivs]

You're just doing your usual trick of ignoring every point that's made and going on irrelevant tangents so I'll leave it with one simple point that you can ignore/avoid/excuse as you wish.

It is certain and obvious that negativity and defeatism at this point will give us no help whatsoever and may be damaging. Equally, positivity and defiance might do nothing to help at all but they certainly won't do any harm and they might help a little or even a lot.

Therefore the only motivation to be negative and defeatist is so you can be smug about being right. A supporter should see the obvious choice and people are welcome to draw their own conclusions.

Have fun.

If you were a manager you'd know that some people need a cuddle for encouragement (your approach for everybody it seems) and some people need a kick up the arse. In my walk of life, the majority of people prefer the cuddle but I wonder if young, got-it-all footballers would respond better to the kick?

[Nibor]

If you were a manager you'd know that some people need a cuddle for encouragement (your approach for everybody it seems) and some people need a kick up the arse. In my walk of life, the majority of people prefer the cuddle but I wonder if young, got-it-all footballers would respond better to the kick?

I'm really talking more about taking on a defiant siege mentality where we're on the same side as the players, as opposed to a cuddle. I just don't think that giving up is ever going to help the team and whilst I agree that sometimes a kick up the arse is needed, I don't think it works with a team already at the bottom with no confidence.

I think we've all been to games where the crowd has had a massive impact, and I think the media including this forum affects how the crowd starts off in terms of mood. It might not make a huge difference but every little helps.

[Garland-sweden]

COYR!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Not over yet. COYR!!!