What's Ruining Football?

[chipdawg]

This idea of 'plastic fans' is not something that's come along with the Sky money though; I know loads of people who're Liverpool fans from when they were the biggest team in the 1980s despite never having lived anywhere near Liverpool. Sky TV has just made it easier to watch that team

[gater2]

A lot of the things mentioned here like high ticket prices, clubs not caring about fans etc are symptoms of much larger issue of football governance.

As I have written before (http://tinyurl.com/coovyf2) the German model is far superior to ours with regard to many of these issues: lower ticket prices, higher attendances (than even the Prem), supporter engagement (51% of each club needs to be 'owned' by supporters). Supporters actually feel that their club is 'theirs' not some millionaire's, and as a result surveys have shown they don't care as much about whacking great player wages, which of course still happens.

A brilliant book, for anyone who's interested in this whole topic is 'Richer than God' by journalist David Conn. Talks about being a Man City fan in 70s and growing up in Manchester, and then trying to come to terms with the fact that his club has sold its soul with the 'purchase' of the Premier League. Brilliant book about what football is 'for' and what's gone wrong in the past few decades.

[Maltshoveller]

Bosman?

Good shout

Done more to damage the game than anything

With all the money sky has pumped into football Clubs should be minted

If only the owners stood up to the players re wages

[Craven arms]

supporters,not willing to change with the game.

[Aizoon]

supporters,not willing to change with the game.

Why should we? It's our game.

[Abraham Romanovich]

For what it's worth here is my list of pet hates:-

Fans of Premiership clubs who've not so much as visited the city of 'their' club never mind actually seeing them play.

Players wearing gloves (except goalies, of course).
The word "soccer".
Alan Shearer
The end of terracing.
Players' agents.
Stewards' lack of accountability.
Fans who change their team.
Cheerleaders.

As an aside

The phrase 'Stonewall penalty'.
Does it refer to the American Civil war General 'Stonewall' Jackson?
Or the Gay rights organisation?

[Robin101]

Why should we? It's our game.

It's my game too, and I don't think football is being ruined, it's just changed. The premier league is the most exciting league in the world; 99% of Bristol city fans would love to experience it first hand. Plastic fans have always been around, but, for the record, a new fan isn't necessarily a plastic fan. If city win the premier league in 5 years we won't have any plastic fans (you really think kids will travel from Norfolk?), but we will have a huge new fanbase.

[Aizoon]

It's my game too, and I don't think football is being ruined, it's just changed. The premier league is the most exciting league in the world; 99% of Bristol city fans would love to experience it first hand. Plastic fans have always been around, but, for the record, a new fan isn't necessarily a plastic fan. If city win the premier league in 5 years we won't have any plastic fans (you really think kids will travel from Norfolk?), but we will have a huge new fanbase.

So I'm told. I don't see it myself, but you've heard it on the telly, so it must be true.

I wouldn't, but I admit quite a few would - not 99%, though.

Why should they? There are eighteen Prem clubs near to Norfolk than City*. They would come from Cornwall, as they did when we were in the old First Division.

* The odd one out is Swansea, in case you wondered..

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

The premier league is the most exciting league in the world;

I personally don't find the same teams winning each week exciting, I find the Championship more exciting tbh as anyone can beat anyone,

I would prefer City gain money by going on a cup run than be in the prem, as you'll get the fair weather fans who start moaning because we're losing to Big teams, And don't say they aren't out there because every club has them as with hooligans, some more than others,

And what I meant by Man City is they have gained a large number of fans because they won the league last season, The fans who weren't there 10 years ago, Just clearing that up, The people who don't follow football but look out for Man City as they usually win

I mean no harm from what I say

[glynriley]

I personally don't find the same teams winning each week exciting, I find the Championship more exciting tbh as anyone can beat anyone,

I would prefer City gain money by going on a cup run than be in the prem, as you'll get the fair weather fans who start moaning because we're losing to Big teams, And don't say they aren't out there because every club has them as with hooligans, some more than others,

And what I meant by Man City is they have gained a large number of fans because they won the league last season, The fans who weren't there 10 years ago, Just clearing that up, The people who don't follow football but look out for Man City as they usually win

I mean no harm from what I say

Man City crowds have increased because they play in a bigger ground now. Maine Road only held 35K when they left it. They've always had a decent fan base , although no doubting they will have picked up a few more in the last couple of years.

[exAtyeoMax]

I forgot about playing music when a goal is scored. What's wrong with a lot of cheering?

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Man City crowds have increased because they play in a bigger ground now. Maine Road only held 35K when they left it. They've always had a decent fan base , although no doubting they will have picked up a few more in the last couple of years.

That's what I meant, I've seen a lot more man city shirts around Bristol/South Glos since 2011, I wonder if they have been to a game?

Chelsea and Man Utd are better examples,

I should of used them

[arpaul]

Look at Scotland though, I know there isn't a limit but there is a lack of foreign players compared to here.

However all the best Scots get snapped up by Rangers/Celtic. The same thing would happen here.

Yes it would. As it did back in the day before Sky.

The difference back then is when Liverpool signed players like Ray Clemence, Kevin Keegan and Mark Lawrenson for example, the transfer fee stayed within the English game. And for some clubs it was there life blood.

These players would be nurtured by their new club,and eventually make the first team.

Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa managed to win six European Cups between them back in the good old days,

Days when only the League Champions qualified for the Competition.

Nowadays, clubs can pick up a "no more than average" Johnny Foreigner for £millions for a quick fix, and this money is lost to the English game.

Sky is responsible for changing the face of football.

A game which always was and always should be based on opinions and discussed and debated in the Pubs and clubs.

Heat of the moment decisions made by human referees and linesmen. Right or Wrong, an honest decision made in an instant. Win some, lose some, and on to the next game.

Nowadays Sky will dissect and scrutinize every decision for hours after the game with replays, Super Slow-Mo, Virtual replays from a multitude of Camera angles. Decisions that the referee had a split second to decide upon.

But in my opinion, Sky aren't the only culprits.

FIFA, UEFA,The English FA and The Football League should all be accountable for allowing Sky to alter the face of this our beautiful game.

[CiderArmyy]

Guarantee people in the 1950's were moaning about how great football was 30 years ago..

[Aizoon]

Guarantee people in the 1950's were moaning about how great football was 30 years ago..

No, they weren't. There was a lot of moaning when England got thrashed by Hungary, but that was specific to the national team.

Why? Because there were no great changes to the game between 1923 and 1953.

[cider-manc]

Yes it would. As it did back in the day before Sky.

The difference back then is when Liverpool signed players like Ray Clemence, Kevin Keegan and Mark Lawrenson example, the transfer fee stayed within the English game. And for some clubs it was there life blood.

These players would be nurtured by their new club,and eventually make the first team.

Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa managed to win six European Cups between them back in the good old days,

Days when only the League Champions qualified for the Competition.

Nowadays, clubs can pick up a "no more than average" Johnny Foreigner for £millions for a quick fix, and this money is lost to the English game.

Sky is responsible for changing the face of football.

A game which always was and always should be based on opinions and discussed and debated in the Pubs and clubs.

Heat of the moment decisions made by human referees and linesmen. Right or Wrong, an honest decision made in an instant. Win some, lose some, and on to the next game.

Nowadays Sky will dissect and scrutinize every decision for hours after the game with replays, Super Slow-Mo, Virtual replays from a multitude of Camera angles. Decisions that the referee had a split second to decide upon.

But in my opinion, Sky aren't the only culprits.

FIFA, UEFA,The English FA and The Football League should all be accountable for allowing Sky to alter the face of this our beautiful game.

The influx of foreign players only really started after the rules were changed in the European competitions. Wasn't it only 3 foreign players allowed on the pitch at once? But I think this may have only been changed due to EU laws on labour and trade? (I may be incorrect and I'm sure someone far more educated than myself will be able to tell you for sure.)

[Monkeh]

Plastic fans such as Man City fans, Where were they when they had no money and scrapping in a relegation battle?

Now, Money has come in and they sold out almost every game last season!

A fan who only watches a team win when they lose there nowhere to be seen, until they start winning again

I wouldn't call man city fans plastic

They were still selling out main road in the 2nd div ( league 1 )

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

I wouldn't call man city fans plastic

They were still selling out main road in the 2nd div ( league 1 )

And so I've been told, I meant that around the Bristol/South Glos area I've seen a lot more Man City shirts in recent years, as you can practically have a season ticket for free if you watch in local pubs, you only have to pay for pints

[poland_red]

sky

the police

stewards

prices

young footballers becoming multi-millionaires

all seater stadiums

the england travel club

the FA not having a set

anyhow, think the question itself is misguided - football has been broken a long time now, the question should be what ruined football. I think it's gone too far down the swanny to ever be fixed.

[CotswoldRed]

The general propensity for the masses is to follow the lead of the media.

People are too often sheep - they eat the same things as their friends, watch the same things, shop in the same shops. That's not always wrong, of course. It does seem to me, however, that more than ever now 'fans' want to be attached to success. Not surprising when the media tells us we all deserve to be winners and the media circus is only interested in what oils the financial gears. We mustn't forget that.

I can't ever see it changing significantly. Especially as the English Prem is the be-all and end-all at the moment. Maybe if the Chinese move on to Serie A then perhaps the emphasis will shift, but as the very top of the game seems insulated from the general economy I think the Man U type love-in is here forever.

Those who pull the strings are in bed with the top clubs. The rest of us will feed off the scraps and suffer.

The proper fans are in the minority (when you look at the global slush fund of TV cash) and proper fans cash is but a fraction of the overall fund. We matter to the football hierarchy about as much as poor people do to the tories.

[David Brent]

I don't like football very much anyway, its already been ruined for me. There are a number of reasons, simply:-

Money - its win at all cost now with a lot of clubs chucking money at an attempt to win the league / get promoted / stay up. Obviously, not all teams can win and i'm looking forward to QPR paying their massive wage bill next season. When owners get fed up of not winning and quit, which they will do, there will be a lot of ruined clubs.

Betting - slightly hypocritical of me as I don't mind the odd bet but betting on the number of corners - seriously! Ray Winstone and those "BET NOW" adverts.

Simulation - diving, trying to get players sent off, pretending to be hurt, time-wasting.

Analysis - talking about football - I know i'm on a football forum - but to the point of analysing every move - where players should be / shouldn't be - "if he had done this / if he had done that" - "he should've scored / he should've saved - "why didn't he pass to him" - i'm talking pundits here.

Respect - this is the big one for me - i'm sick of the abuse refs get from players to the point of being chased around the pitch. Linesmen get it worse yet just stand there and take it - I'm waiting for the day one of them to decides to calmly place the flag down walk up to John Terry (or whoever) and smack him in the face.

[cheese]

Septic Bladder and the rest of his FIFA henchmen.

[Avalanche]

Agents. Players wages. Walking past that ridiculous row of cars parked outside the Atyeo before every game. These three things are possibly linked.