Dorset_Cider Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Well actually I'm not. I expect you decided to click on this because the title and that's just it is it not? It would have been nice for SOD to 'feed the masses' 'Turn Water Into Cider'' and generally walk on water in the short space of time that he has been here at BCFC. He is going to have to be a very strong man to push through his philosophy with many fans of the club, players and staff. History tells us that Rome was not built in a day and taken that that this is true, we are going to have to face that our club will not be turned around in half or even one/two seasons (maybe even more). The point about Rome is...... it really was not built in a day, not to say that that because of this it did not become a great city but it had small beginnings and the greatness was built up over a number of years and sometimes great cities have to be burnt down, be rebuilt to become great again. Decline & fall/Rise from the ashes etc. As a collection of fans we have 'EXPECTATIONS HIGHER THAN OUR HOPE' and I'm as guilty as the next fan on that one. The reality of where our club is is a shared one......... yes you, me, the board, players, staff, the head coach and Scrumpy (Who rumour has it bumped off City Cat). It's fair to say that some mentioned here are possibly more guilty than others. SOD knows and understands that you can't change the past but you can change the future or at least improve your future and with him I think we may just have one. It is a great shame that SOD has to explain what he means by what he says , his only mistake being that he presumed we have equal footballing intelligence and would understand his philosophy rather than thinking we are the thick football fans that many of us actually are. The man needs to be able to get most of us (if not all of us) on board and there is some wisdom and sense in what he is saying even if we do not agree fully or understand. SOD cannot come out and say we have crap players, a crap set up and even if he did it's not totally true......... he is going to have to build on what he has, some of it positive some of it negative. He is going to have to build over time and we are going to have to give him time. We all feel the pain and it's going to be a long slog, but because we all feel the pain we share a common point of reference and need to work together to stop the pain right? If SOD stays with us and we adopt the philosophy rather than fight against it....... we do stand a good chance of improving. That does not mean we have to have a big 'head coach' love in all of the time, we are still free to moan (and boy we do like a good moan) Maybe SOD would say it would be better if we turn the moaning into legitimate grumbles, grumbles often have good reason? Anyway.......... if SOD does not manage to get younger players, mould them to play his way, with his shared philosophy then we are just going to have the kind of team that so many of us have had to put up with over the years. Yes we need a strong team with the same vision, whereas we have had a few good players in a lacking team. The good players cannot carry the laking players week in week out and the rest has pretty much been our history. To the future and beyond......... We will rise again......... the past has gone and everything really has changed, we need further change and it is not going to be an easy ride. The whole structure of what clubs do has altered and we need to be strongly developed to be a strong club/team in that future world. In the end SOD will go, we all know that. Viva La BRISTOL CITY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corleone Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Top post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 You get a shirt time in football. SOD knows that we all know that. Keeping us up was always a long shot but ultimately, he's the man who will take us down as the bottom club. I always thought him to be a strange appointment. Not the nan for a quick fix or sudden impact which was what we needed. There's been lots of talk about the long term which has annoyed me - surely the long term waits until you've sorted the short term issue. We need to rebuild but surely the aspiration should have been to do that from The Championship. If we didn't want to spend the money to stay here then what's the point of trying to find our way back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Well actually I'm not. I expect you decided to click on this because the title and that's just it is it not? It would have been nice for SOD to 'feed the masses' 'Turn Water Into Cider'' and generally walk on water in the short space of time that he has been here at BCFC. He is going to have to be a very strong man to push through his philosophy with many fans of the club, players and staff. History tells us that Rome was not built in a day and taken that that this is true, we are going to have to face that our club will not be turned around in half or even one/two seasons (maybe even more). The point about Rome is...... it really was not built in a day, not to say that that because of this it did not become a great city but it had small beginnings and the greatness was built up over a number of years and sometimes great cities have to be burnt down, be rebuilt to become great again. Decline & fall/Rise from the ashes etc. As a collection of fans we have 'EXPECTATIONS HIGHER THAN OUR HOPE' and I'm as guilty as the next fan on that one. The reality of where our club is is a shared one......... yes you, me, the board, players, staff, the head coach and Scrumpy (Who rumour has it bumped off City Cat). It's fair to say that some mentioned here are possibly more guilty than others. SOD knows and understands that you can't change the past but you can change the future or at least improve your future and with him I think we may just have one. It is a great shame that SOD has to explain what he means by what he says , his only mistake being that he presumed we have equal footballing intelligence and would understand his philosophy rather than thinking we are the thick football fans that many of us actually are. The man needs to be able to get most of us (if not all of us) on board and there is some wisdom and sense in what he is saying even if we do not agree fully or understand. SOD cannot come out and say we have crap players, a crap set up and even if he did it's not totally true......... he is going to have to build on what he has, some of it positive some of it negative. He is going to have to build over time and we are going to have to give him time. We all feel the pain and it's going to be a long slog, but because we all feel the pain we share a common point of reference and need to work together to stop the pain right? If SOD stays with us and we adopt the philosophy rather than fight against it....... we do stand a good chance of improving. That does not mean we have to have a big 'head coach' love in all of the time, we are still free to moan (and boy we do like a good moan) Maybe SOD would say it would be better if we turn the moaning into legitimate grumbles, grumbles often have good reason? Anyway.......... if SOD does not manage to get younger players, mould them to play his way, with his shared philosophy then we are just going to have the kind of team that so many of us have had to put up with over the years. Yes we need a strong team with the same vision, whereas we have had a few good players in a lacking team. The good players cannot carry the laking players week in week out and the rest has pretty much been our history. To the future and beyond......... We will rise again......... the past has gone and everything really has changed, we need further change and it is not going to be an easy ride. The whole structure of what clubs do has altered and we need to be strongly developed to be a strong club/team in that future world. In the end SOD will go, we all know that. Viva La BRISTOL CITY! What, the philosophy of getting one point out of a possible 27 away from home? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to work that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 What, the philosophy of getting one point out of a possible 27 away from home? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to work that out Yeah spot on. O'Driscoll has failed to achieve anything away from home. He talks about the team with a level of detachment, as if they are nothing to do with him but half a season is enough time to see us getting better. Right now we are going backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah spot on. O'Driscoll has failed to achieve anything away from home. He talks about the team with a level of detachment, as if they are nothing to do with him but half a season is enough time to see us getting better. Right now we are going backwards. Yeah he's an enigma to me. His essays are undoubtedly remarkable reading. He's a true football philosopher. And yet the results/displays just don't match it. It's as if it's two different people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 What, the philosophy of getting one point out of a possible 27 away from home? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to work that out I take your thinking but would reply that we have not been a major force away from home for some time under other managers. His philosophy is about getting our players to play well & try to make the right playing choices even if they eventually still lose...... yes we don't want to lose but I think the idea is to be consistent in your thought processes and playing actions..... the other players in your team can predict what your choice of direction may be and can be in the right place at the right time. The point being it's the same philosophy for teams that don't play well but still manage to make one or two good decisions at the same time within a game, those decisions leading to a goal or goals that win the game despite the overall performance not being good. No manager or head coach in SOD's case would wish to get one point out of 27 away games but that is not his philosophy and not the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah he's an enigma to me. His essays are undoubtedly remarkable reading. He's a true football philosopher. And yet the results/displays just don't match it. It's as if it's two different people I believe that the results will come....... but look if you expect to win everything every week regardless, we are all going to be disappointed. This is really going to be a long haul and if SOD does not get to do it then believe me someone else is going to have to do it. I think with SOD & The Philosophy (which will drive us mad at times) we do have a hope for the future. This is not a 'JAM TODAY' scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Yeah spot on. O'Driscoll has failed to achieve anything away from home. He talks about the team with a level of detachment, as if they are nothing to do with him but half a season is enough time to see us getting better. Right now we are going backwards. Yes we are going backwards in the sense that we are pretty much back down in league Three. If you manage it is sometimes the best thing to have, a certain detachment that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 You get a shirt time in football. SOD knows that we all know that. Keeping us up was always a long shot but ultimately, he's the man who will take us down as the bottom club. I always thought him to be a strange appointment. Not the nan for a quick fix or sudden impact which was what we needed. There's been lots of talk about the long term which has annoyed me - surely the long term waits until you've sorted the short term issue. We need to rebuild but surely the aspiration should have been to do that from The Championship. If we didn't want to spend the money to stay here then what's the point of trying to find our way back up. I agree that we should have looked to rebuild from the Championship (Division Two) but I also think we should have addressed that seasons ago. We we dead last season and got lucky but the wrong decisions were made regarding this season even with the writing on the wall. Even Jesus could not save us this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Damn it........ where are the replies from Robbored and Horace........ bumping it because Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Damn it........ where are the replies from Robbored and Horace........ bumping it because Snuffle snoffle snort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 You get a shirt time in football. SOD knows that we all know that. Keeping us up was always a long shot but ultimately, he's the man who will take us down as the bottom club. I always thought him to be a strange appointment. Not the nan for a quick fix or sudden impact which was what we needed. There's been lots of talk about the long term which has annoyed me - surely the long term waits until you've sorted the short term issue. We need to rebuild but surely the aspiration should have been to do that from The Championship. If we didn't want to spend the money to stay here then what's the point of trying to find our way back up. To a point you need to try to do both - we've been trying to sort the short term issue for at least three seasons now, with money being wasted on short term loans which do nothing for the long term squad capability. If you're always firefighting, you never find the time to do anything else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Snuffle snoffle snort. Sorry - forgot to translate that. Horace was saying "Give the man a chance, for Slug's sake!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Yeah he's an enigma to me. His essays are undoubtedly remarkable reading. He's a true football philosopher. And yet the results/displays just don't match it. It's as if it's two different people Exactly. This shouldn't be an exercise in showing how clever he is. Frankly footballers are generally fairly 'uncomplicated' people if you catch my drift. His away record is atrocious, and dressing it up in football philosophy can't hide it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryRed Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 TBH I wanted Di Canio or Warnock. Colin is now available...Di Canio sadly is literally in a different league (and will be whatever happens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 You get a shirt time in football. SOD knows that we all know that. Keeping us up was always a long shot but ultimately, he's the man who will take us down as the bottom club. I always thought him to be a strange appointment. Not the nan for a quick fix or sudden impact which was what we needed. There's been lots of talk about the long term which has annoyed me - surely the long term waits until you've sorted the short term issue. We need to rebuild but surely the aspiration should have been to do that from The Championship. If we didn't want to spend the money to stay here then what's the point of trying to find our way back up. We keep trying to sort out the short term, but it ultimately means that too much focus is put on that problem, and cracks appear elsewhere. Got to let some water in and build a new wall a bit further back, then try to fix the cracks in the first wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Exactly. This shouldn't be an exercise in showing how clever he is. Frankly footballers are generally fairly 'uncomplicated' people if you catch my drift. His away record is atrocious, and dressing it up in football philosophy can't hide it. SOD's philosophy is not dressed up as any highbrow thing it's part and parcel of how he wants players to think, he's not dressing up anything. We will see just what this brings in the next period for our club........ as he has pointed out we may not agree with the philosophy all the time,some of the time or at all. What we will have to accept is things are not the same as they were and we as a club,player,staff and fans will have to adapt to that...... let's face it we cannot stay the same if we want to progress. We will all have the chance to either celebrate or lament but either way we have had (dot) amount of managers that seemed to have no plan at all and now we have got a head coach that at least offers us something different from what we had and in these ever changing times just might have put his finger on the pulse. We can all slate him now for what he has not done but it's really going to take longer to reap what he might just sow within our Club. It's all a gamble........ but we are in good hands if the guy is given the time......... this might just be our new Dicks (who would have been long gone before we got to Division 1 in today's world at City) As for me I see little point in going back up unless we have addressed the problems of the past and stay up in the comfort zone and nothing less than the comfort zone...... Steve.L we never got to consolidate our position in the Championship (Division 2) did we and you said that was the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 We keep trying to sort out the short term, but it ultimately means that too much focus is put on that problem, and cracks appear elsewhere. Got to let some water in and build a new wall a bit further back, then try to fix the cracks in the first wall I agree with that, we just carry on with the elephant in the room rather than making the elephant leave and we keep pretending he or she is not there. Time to notice the elephant and ask it to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Sorry - forgot to translate that. Horace was saying "Give the man a chance, for Slug's sake!" I just put that through Babble Fish and got ........ 'I don't want my kids to have a Bristol accent'. As for me I'd be happy with my kids having a Bristol accent coz it's my roots natty roots man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Yeah he's an enigma to me. His essays are undoubtedly remarkable reading. He's a true football philosopher. And yet the results/displays just don't match it. It's as if it's two different people He has the right philosophy, but the players still have to deliver on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 You get a shirt time in football. SOD knows that we all know that. Keeping us up was always a long shot but ultimately, he's the man who will take us down as the bottom club. I always thought him to be a strange appointment. Not the nan for a quick fix or sudden impact which was what we needed. There's been lots of talk about the long term which has annoyed me - surely the long term waits until you've sorted the short term issue. We need to rebuild but surely the aspiration should have been to do that from The Championship. If we didn't want to spend the money to stay here then what's the point of trying to find our way back up. I don't think it's possible for me to disagree with this post any more than I do. Attempting to tackle the short term all the time is exactly the reason this club is so ******, from the tenure of Gary Johnson until the employment of SOD we have been fighting the fire with quick fixes and not progressing at any rate. We have surely been the most stagnant club of the last half decade and that is entirely to do with this attitude. That people still harp back to the signings of journeymen old players like André Bikey and Kalifa Cissé perfectly sums up what I'm talking about. Signings such as those do nothing for the club but act as a short term and expensive fix for a problem that,with a proper manager, could be addressed for years to come. People would prefer dinosaurs like Warnock bleeding this club (Already an absolute fortune in debt) dry by applying their short term fixes to problems... Then when it finally goes sour(You yourself assert that you don't get much time in football, I take from that that failure is an inevitability) you're left with the same problems all over again but an even greater level of debt and no philosophy at the club to fall back on. How that makes sense to anyone is beyond my comprehension. I must question your last sentence too. With the spiraling debts and the impending FFP rules (Which the club is actively trying to comply with, something that they should be commended for rather than vilified) it makes perfect sense to want to set the club up so that it doesn't need to spend money to stay there in the future. Short-termism is a cancer on the game in this country. It's another awful affliction from the SKY sports era and it has held amateur, club and international football back in England for too long now. Focusing on the future is an act that should be wholeheartedly commended by a fan base that has seen what short-termism can do to a football club. We should know better than anyone that SOD's philosophies and the way the new board has spoken about our strategies for the future are the only way to go. Employing dinosaurs like Warnock or over-spending morons like Di Canio would be another backward step for this football club, one from which we wouldn't recover. Becoming a proper club with a way of doing things is something we should all aspire to, not chasing the Premier League dream simply by throwing cash at it and dealing with the consequences later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I don't think it's possible for me to disagree with this post any more than I do. Attempting to tackle the short term all the time is exactly the reason this club is so ******, from the tenure of Gary Johnson until the employment of SOD we have been fighting the fire with quick fixes and not progressing at any rate. We have surely been the most stagnant club of the last half decade and that is entirely to do with this attitude. That people still harp back to the signings of journeymen old players like André Bikey and Kalifa Cissé perfectly sums up what I'm talking about. Signings such as those do nothing for the club but act as a short term and expensive fix for a problem that,with a proper manager, could be addressed for years to come. People would prefer dinosaurs like Warnock bleeding this club (Already an absolute fortune in debt) dry by applying their short term fixes to problems... Then when it finally goes sour(You yourself assert that you don't get much time in football, I take from that that failure is an inevitability) you're left with the same problems all over again but an even greater level of debt and no philosophy at the club to fall back on. How that makes sense to anyone is beyond my comprehension. I must question your last sentence too. With the spiraling debts and the impending FFP rules (Which the club is actively trying to comply with, something that they should be commended for rather than vilified) it makes perfect sense to want to set the club up so that it doesn't need to spend money to stay there in the future. Short-termism is a cancer on the game in this country. It's another awful affliction from the SKY sports era and it has held amateur, club and international football back in England for too long now. Focusing on the future is an act that should be wholeheartedly commended by a fan base that has seen what short-termism can do to a football club. We should know better than anyone that SOD's philosophies and the way the new board has spoken about our strategies for the future are the only way to go. Employing dinosaurs like Warnock or over-spending morons like Di Canio would be another backward step for this football club, one from which we wouldn't recover. Becoming a proper club with a way of doing things is something we should all aspire to, not chasing the Premier League dream simply by throwing cash at it and dealing with the consequences later. Superb post. I fully accept that people will look to play the blame game over the next few months thanks to the position we find ourselves in, but some of the criticism (and it is a compliment to even refer to it as that) that has been directed at SO'D over the last week is frankly laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 He has the right philosophy, but the players still have to deliver on the day I think part of this is that the players that get it will stay & improve, the ones that don't will go and the new ones need to share the philosophy to be successful at our Club. The board,fans,players,backroom staff all have to adopt the philosophy too...... singing from the same hymn sheet could do wonders for our club...... we cannot go on like before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I don't think it's possible for me to disagree with this post any more than I do. Attempting to tackle the short term all the time is exactly the reason this club is so ******, from the tenure of Gary Johnson until the employment of SOD we have been fighting the fire with quick fixes and not progressing at any rate. We have surely been the most stagnant club of the last half decade and that is entirely to do with this attitude. That people still harp back to the signings of journeymen old players like André Bikey and Kalifa Cissé perfectly sums up what I'm talking about. Signings such as those do nothing for the club but act as a short term and expensive fix for a problem that,with a proper manager, could be addressed for years to come. People would prefer dinosaurs like Warnock bleeding this club (Already an absolute fortune in debt) dry by applying their short term fixes to problems... Then when it finally goes sour(You yourself assert that you don't get much time in football, I take from that that failure is an inevitability) you're left with the same problems all over again but an even greater level of debt and no philosophy at the club to fall back on. How that makes sense to anyone is beyond my comprehension. I must question your last sentence too. With the spiraling debts and the impending FFP rules (Which the club is actively trying to comply with, something that they should be commended for rather than vilified) it makes perfect sense to want to set the club up so that it doesn't need to spend money to stay there in the future. Short-termism is a cancer on the game in this country. It's another awful affliction from the SKY sports era and it has held amateur, club and international football back in England for too long now. Focusing on the future is an act that should be wholeheartedly commended by a fan base that has seen what short-termism can do to a football club. We should know better than anyone that SOD's philosophies and the way the new board has spoken about our strategies for the future are the only way to go. Employing dinosaurs like Warnock or over-spending morons like Di Canio would be another backward step for this football club, one from which we wouldn't recover. Becoming a proper club with a way of doing things is something we should all aspire to, not chasing the Premier League dream simply by throwing cash at it and dealing with the consequences later. We do not have the cash to chase the dream of the Premiership (Division 1) we have to do it another way, if we are to do it at all and on that you are so right (Your insight on this may offend some on here) We just cannot drift along like we have for so many years..... being the big club we are not but could be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I just put that through Babble Fish and got ........ 'I don't want my kids to have a Bristol accent'. As for me I'd be happy with my kids having a Bristol accent coz it's my roots natty roots man. Babbie Fish? Bain't that one of they Heinz infant meals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 He has the right philosophy, but the players still have to deliver on the day True. So let's kick out the ones the can't be ar$ed to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I agree with that, we just carry on with the elephant in the room rather than making the elephant leave and we keep pretending he or she is not there. Time to notice the elephant and ask it to leave. Before it steps on the hedgehog, I hope I honestly think that DMC put some of the planks in place, off the pitch. His mistake was to be fooled by the Heidelburgers* putting in a bit of effort at the back end of last season. They will be on their Maseratis this summer and hopefully we'll have some players with a bit a pride in the shirt. Not Albert, BTW; I'll be sorry to see him go. * the H is silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorset_Cider Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Still would like Robbored to wade in with his take on this. I get the feeling that many of us that have not agreed in the past do now and the feeling seems to be we just cannot go on in the same way as as a club. SOD may well be the catalyst and if not what the hell next...... if nothing else we are talking now and that ain't so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 There's a Shankley quote stating that he preferred to keep communication simple so that nothing's lost in interpretation. I had a little look but couldn't find it. Can't help thinking SOD would do well to follow his example. It's not that people aren't capable of understanding what he's saying, it's just we're pissed off as it is and this is football not ethics, logic or epistemology. He has my backing, it is a shame that it's just another role of the dice from the board - they're the ones who need to put a footballing philosophy for the club in place (unfortunately I'd have more faith in my Mother doing that, though - bless her) but he'd do himself a favour if he'd talk on a more surperficial level, not so deep. Doesn't seem to be his personality, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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