TRL Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 If I was SL reading lots of these comments I think I'd by saying "Sod you unappreciative lot, I'm off" Fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Me The Money! Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Beggars belief! Truly does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Beggars belief! Truly does To be grateful to Steve and appreciate what he has done, would mean I would have to agree with the majority of the things he has done. I don't. Not entirely sure how that beggars belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 If he did pack his bags and walk, I'd say thank you for your efforts NEXT..... Despite various plans the club is in a worse position than it was 10 years ago, in league one, debts have increased, academy still floundering, In fact we are in a worse position than last time we were relegated, at least then we have some really high value saleable assests, Lots of talk but little REAL progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 RICH QUOTE: "THE CLUB WILL SPIN ANYTHING TO GET THEIR WAY AND KEEP FANS HAPPY". You said it pal, not me. With regard to damaging club spin, inspite of all my posts about Gary Johnson favouring his son Lee Johnson, over better midfielders that were available at that time, I still think Gary Johnson was a good manager overall. The club's spin to sell season cards after our Wembley promotion play-off near miss said that we were going for automatic promotion. The club sold a lot of season cards as a result but this spin put Gary Johnson under far too much pressure to realize the dream of promotion to the Premiership. This club's spin doctors really should be careful what they promise with their marketing campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Agreeing with Red Gobiln - who got there before me... You don't have to be ungrateful for Steve Lansdown's efforts to question where they have got us. The simple fact is that over 5 years ago presentations were being made to supporters which suggested that by now we'd have already played a season in a brand new stadium. We took them in good faith. Whatever the reasons for the hold ups City supporters aren't to blame. In those 5 years very little has moved forward at the Gate and much has moved backwards. The reality is that far from the promise of watching Championship or even Premier League football next season in a modern stadium we're offered Div 3 football in the same seats we had back then. As ever at City the promise is of jam tomorrow. After a while people with memories start to question the sincerity of the promise. And frankly those making the promises - of new grounds, new recruitment, new playing philosophies, new achievements - should be aware that people have memories and think carefully before they raise hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Agreeing with Red Gobiln - who got there before me... You don't have to be ungrateful for Steve Lansdown's efforts to question where they have got us. The simple fact is that over 5 years ago presentations were being made to supporters which suggested that by now we'd have already played a season in a brand new stadium. We took them in good faith. Whatever the reasons for the hold ups City supporters aren't to blame. In those 5 years very little has moved forward at the Gate and much has moved backwards. The reality is that far from the promise of watching Championship or even Premier League football next season in a modern stadium we're offered Div 3 football in the same seats we had back then. As ever at City the promise is of jam tomorrow. After a while people with memories start to question the sincerity of the promise. And frankly those making the promises - of new grounds, new recruitment, new playing philosophies, new achievements - should be aware that people have memories and think carefully before they raise hopes.. Exactly how I think about the situation. Hopes get raised, only to be dashed again. Just another day In the life of a city fan. I will be back next season . My shrink said there is no hope for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUp Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 And you said sweet FA in reply to my question about comparible finances of the two stadiums. Tell me how it's possible to raise as much revenue from a smaller stadium with inferior facilities. These figures are ones ive used for simplicity. £20 per ticket x 30, 000 = £600, 000 £22 per ticket x 27, 000 = £594, 000 We'll never know what ticket costs at A.V.would have been but adding between £2 and £5 per ticket (as crowds are unlikely to be 27, 000) would seem the obvious answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Ashton Vale all the way for me. A chance to build exactly what we need, rather than make do and mend in a restricted space. A new stadium is financed by Sainsburys too, and generates such a feel-good factor. It changes the perception of the club to potential new players, let alone a whole new generation of spectators. Look what it did to Swansea and Reading's crowds almost instantly. Revamping AG will not have the same impact as it'll happen bit by bit. Sadly I believe SL has given up on AV, and providing AG gets permission, AV will be canned. Hence why the club is making all these positive noises about how great AG will be. For me, it's a massive opportunity missed, to drag this club out of the past, and into the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 If I was SL reading lots of these comments I think I'd by saying "Sod you unappreciative lot, I'm off" I'd like to think he's got slightly thicker skin than to walk away because of a few people sitting behind a keyboard that dislike him. Do I agree with all of his decisions? No. Has he got things wrong? Of course, who doesn't. Do I question his intentions/motives? Not at all, why would anyone throw so much money at something and continue to do so unless they wanted desperately to see it succeed. I believe if we redevelop AG, he is pretty much funding the entire thing himself isn't he? What a selfish arse. Still, here's hoping for someone like the venkys to come in and sort this mess out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolBEAT Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Clean start for me. Ashton Vale brings a different opinion to a club. More fans. More commercial benefits. Players look at us in a different way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I'd like to think he's got slightly thicker skin than to walk away because of a few people sitting behind a keyboard that dislike him. Do I agree with all of his decisions? No. Has he got things wrong? Of course, who doesn't. Do I question his intentions/motives? Not at all, why would anyone throw so much money at something and continue to do so unless they wanted desperately to see it succeed. I believe if we redevelop AG, he is pretty much funding the entire thing himself isn't he? What a selfish arse. Still, here's hoping for someone like the venkys to come in and sort this mess out. Exactly my thoughts Kibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfeltz Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Lnng live ashton gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 As ever at City the promise is of jam tomorrow. After a while people with memories start to question the sincerity of the promise. And frankly those making the promises - of new grounds, new recruitment, new playing philosophies, new achievements - should be aware that people have memories and think carefully before they raise hopes. What is so unusual about a board of a Football Club stating what they want to achieve within a timeframe? Everybody does it, would it have been better if the board had come out years ago and said "we have no ambition for this club, lets just trott along season after season and see where it gets us"? What makes you think that they may not have been sincere because surely success for the club would benefit everyone including the bloke who continues to bankroll us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Ashton Vale all the way for me. A chance to build exactly what we need, rather than make do and mend in a restricted space. A new stadium is financed by Sainsburys too, and generates such a feel-good factor. It changes the perception of the club to potential new players, let alone a whole new generation of spectators. Look what it did to Swansea and Reading's crowds almost instantly. Revamping AG will not have the same impact as it'll happen bit by bit. Sadly I believe SL has given up on AV, and providing AG gets permission, AV will be canned. Hence why the club is making all these positive noises about how great AG will be. For me, it's a massive opportunity missed, to drag this club out of the past, and into the 21st century. +1 A number of people have asked "where will these extra fans come from ?" Well, I don't know, but the fact is they appear from somewhere. Look at Brighton, rarely sold out the 7600 capacity Withdean while mid table in L1. Selling out 27000 Amex week in week out now. We won't get this "bounce" from a revamped A.G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 If you rip everything out of Ashton Gate and replace it with new it doesn't make it the same place just because it's in the same location. Go to Vale for ***** sake. It's two new stands, and the others refurbished, of course it's the same place. What a ridiculous thing to say. I work in healthcare and have often been involved in projects to relocate/reconfigure/etc healthcare services. This has included closures or downgrades of hospitals. People can be very emotive about bricks and mortar - they see the facility, and not the service - the service may remain after the facility has gone. But people "see" a hospital as familiar and reassuring. It appears that football fans are no different - my understanding is that a lot of fans of other clubs who were proposing a relocation have opposed it because they didn't want to leave their "spiritual home", only for them to fall in love with the new facility once it's ready. What we're talking about here is a "new" ground or a heavily redeveloped one - both aiming to fulfil the same objectives, ie increase revenues, modernise the facilities, expand the services offered (corporate hospitality, etc). Whether both achieve these goals to the same extent, well I can't comment. However, I do know that in option appraisals in my line of work, the "in situ" redevelopment is nearly always less successful at achieving the desired benefits due to the compromises involved - a new facility WILL be designed to meet the objectives, the redevelopment will be designed to be a best fit. I take on board the points about "value engineering" of AV, only too familiar with this! However, this could equally apply to a redevelopment. I don't need to reply.CAN YOU NOT READ - THE CLUB HAVE SAID SO. They've made you and your unconditional support look rather stupid, haven't they. Frankly, so what. I'd want to see an independent Cost-Benefit Analysis or options appraisal, showing the relative positions of each of the options, and detailing EXACTLY what assumptions were made. I, too, am a qualified accountant, and have written "n" business cases, so I'm suspicious of any figures that are produced unless I can see how they were worked out - 'cos I know the tricks!!!! And there's a big difference between income, affordability and return on investment, and I'd want to see all 3. Personally, I'm not really that bothered either way about AG vs AV - I'm no longer a local resident and don't go to every game. What matters to me is the football team - the box in which they play is somewhat irrelevant to me. As long as I fee safe, comfortable and valued, and can have a leak in a toilet that is vaguely pleasant I'm happy. Phew, I do go on a bit, don't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Ashton Gate for me, every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 In explaining the comment at the Fans Parliament Martin Griffiths stated the reduced expenditure on AG compared to AV means that the maths on AG stand up as well as they do on AV. This therefore includes a break-even point, beyond which AV has the potential to generate superior income. There’s a bit of me that thinks Nick has his tongue in his cheek (or cider in his veins) when relying so heavily on a comment from the Club that supports his argument. As Kibs states in this thread, it makes perfect sense for the Club to initially argue that AV is the only option when needing to get planning permission. Having so far failed to overcome the TVG hurdle and created a Plan B it now also make sense that the Club would want to convince us that this option is just as good financially. Personally I suspect that AG will be less income generative but it’s certainly my preferred option. It’s not all about the money. The overwhelming show of hands for AG was a repeat of an earlier overwhelming show of hands in favour of AG at a Supporters Club & Trust meeting a month or two ago. It was on the basis of 95% of supporters in our survey wanting a new stadium that the Supporters Club & Trust backed AV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 What is so unusual about a board of a Football Club stating what they want to achieve within a timeframe? Everybody does it, would it have been better if the board had come out years ago and said "we have no ambition for this club, lets just trott along season after season and see where it gets us"? What makes you think that they may not have been sincere because surely success for the club would benefit everyone including the bloke who continues to bankroll us? What makes me question the sincerity of the ambition is the handbrake turns of the recent past. I'm thinking "AV or bust" and Coppell appointed because he had the experience to lead us to the Prem...followed by "actually AG could be fine" and "Millen can do just as good a job for us." I've been involved in enough big change projects over the years to know that when you are arguing for change the temptation is to overstate your case for effect. The danger in that is that you raise expectations and you burn bridges. And if things go wrong and you need to change direction you have raised some fundamental questions about your original logic. If it is fine to stay at Ashton Gate then what's the compelling argument for building a new stadium in the face of local opposition? If Steve Coppell is right because he has experience how can rookie Keith Millen possibly replace him? There is, as you say, nothing unusual about clubs making plans and promises...and fans wanting to believe what they are promised. I'm simply saying that from my long experience supporting City we've been here so many times before that I've lost faith... ...but on reflection perhaps I've lost faith more in the capacity of the current board to deliver than in their sincerity. Maybe they believe that all these things are consistent....that Coppell and Millen could deliver the same playing ambition...that the redevelopment of AG can offer much if not most of what AV could have offered...but I can't say I see that myself. To me Steve Coppell was a plausible man to move the club forward on the pitch and AV represented a unique opportunity off it. As of now I'd argue that whatever the emerging strategy it needs to be stuck to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please somebody answer me, where will the money to re-deveolpe AG actually come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please somebody answer me, where will the money to re-deveolpe AG actually come from? The sale of AV to the biggest pikey community in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Please somebody answer me, where will the money to re-deveolpe AG actually come from? Steve L is financing it himself. Loan (non repayable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Steve L is financing it himself. Loan (non repayable). So basically then 100 + mil of debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 So basically then 100 + mil of debt? If your a glass half empty kinda guy then yea. But sl has said himself, he will NOT be calling the debt in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 But sl has said himself, he will NOT be calling the debt in. That fact is sadly missed (or ignored) by the haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 If your a glass half empty kinda guy then yea. But sl has said himself, he will NOT be calling the debt in. it is not about glasses being half empty or half full, it is what is actually best for the long term financial structure of the club and this is about debt and a lot of debt owed by the club, me I truly believe the cheap option of re-developing AG is playing a game of russian roulette with the future of the club, that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 it is not about glasses being half empty or half full, it is what is actually best for the long term financial structure of the club and this is about debt and a lot of debt owed by the club, me I truly believe the cheap option of re-developing AG is playing a game of russian roulette with the future of the club, that is my opinion. And the other option is to sit still and do **** all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 That fact is sadly missed (or ignored) by the haters. We hope. There are many variables that could require him having to call it in even if he doesn't want to. Be it administration and taking a massive hit or by selling off to the highest bidder. Life can be unpredictable sometimes. Eggs in one basket of someone is always a dangerous game. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 And the other option is to sit still and do **** all. The option is to initially wait and see what happens in October is it?, because as far as I am aware the club hasn't pulled the plug on AV just informed the fans that for once they have a plan b and I think that was to face off any criticism about the gas getting their new stadium before ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 We hope. There are many variables that could require him having to call it in even if he doesn't want to. It seems SL himself is unaware of these circumstances. Unless he goes bankrupt, which he won't, I'll sleep easy tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.