Arrogance Or Ignorance Of Rugger Fellows.

[MichaelRobartes]

Complete bollocks. Come watch a game at Gloucester, not many silver spoons stuck up our arses, I can assure you of that

I often get the feeling that people that slag rugby off are the ones that wouldn't have the guts to actually play the game

I know that your post wasn't directed at me Woodsy but I should clarify from my previous post that I don't think rugby is a particularly middle/upper class game in England, though it is to a greater extent than in Wales and Ireland. That being said, many of the Irish and Welsh players go through university as well. Not that it's an indicator of poshness but I think it's often given as a justification for an individual's poshness.

I think it's really a difference in finance. Rugby players have to plan ahead because the majority are paid low (comparative to footballers) wages. Unlike young footballers at the top level who get paid mega bucks before they've done anything at all.

Would young players of the calibre of the good doctor jaw Roberts have bothered with medical training if they were on premier league footballers' wages? I doubt it.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

The average annual salary of a premiership rugby player is 70-80k.

I'm not suggesting for a second that is a pittance but we all know that is loose change in comparison to footie wages.

So IMO when it comes to money, football is the arrogant party.

If football was a person it would be that lotto chav who spunked to the lot on hookers, nose bag and gold. Now he's a bin man.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Since when has rugby been a sport?

[MichaelRobartes]

The average annual salary of a Premier League rugby player is 70-80k.

I'm not suggesting for a second that is a pittance but we all know that is loose change in comparison to footie wages.

So IMO when it comes to money, football is the arrogant party.

If football was a person it would be that lotto chav who spunked to the lot on hookers, nose bag and gold. Now he's a bin man.

Spot on. They are very well paid, but most get in a year what a lot of premier league footballers make in a few months and some will make more in just one month.

[westred1]

Spot on. They are very well paid, but most get in a year what a lot of premier league footballers make in a few months and some will make more in just one month.

And most make it in a week!

Jonny Sexton will get 600k a year at Racing Metro which accumulates to around 11.5k a week; as someone said its not pittance but that's equivalent to an average Championship footballer.

I've played to a high standard in rugby and the skill level is very high. You have to better yourself further each time you go up a level. There's no time for passengers in rugby, you will get found out whereas in football a lot of players can go missing in terms of performance and the team won't get punished.

['Orns]

I know that your post wasn't directed at me Woodsy but I should clarify from my previous post that I don't think rugby is a particularly middle/upper class game in England, though it is to a greater extent than in Wales and Ireland. That being said, many of the Irish and Welsh players go through university as well. Not that it's an indicator of poshness but I think it's often given as a justification for an individual's poshness.

I think it's really a difference in finance. Rugby players have to plan ahead because the majority are paid low (comparative to footballers) wages. Unlike young footballers at the top level who get paid mega bucks before they've done anything at all.

Would young players of the calibre of the good doctor jaw Roberts have bothered with medical training if they were on premier league footballers' wages? I doubt it.

Definitely not aimed at you mate! Good points raised, got an awful lot of respect for Roberts and the training he's been through over the last how many years

[NOTR]

Complete bollocks. Come watch a game at Gloucester, not many silver spoons stuck up our arses, I can assure you of that

I often get the feeling that people that slag rugby off are the ones that wouldn't have the guts to actually play the game

There are down to earth clubs,such as Gloucester,but many of them are are definitely a bit snobby,the London clubs being examples of this.How do The Cherries see Bath,a bit snobby or similar to themselves.

['Orns]

There are down to earth clubs,such as Gloucester,but many of them are are definitely a bit snobby,the London clubs being examples of this.How do The Cherries see Bath,a bit snobby or similar to themselves.

Bath.....up their own arses! More from their period of dominance rather than a snobby point of view

The London clubs are a bit of an odd set, Quins are usually ok, Saracens seem to be a bunch of tossers, don't get me started on Wasps. London Irish, look forward to that game, great set of fans. I'll tell you who are a pain in the arse now, Exeter. Got a great team, and a fantastic club, but not keen on their fans at all

[NOTR]

Bath.....up their own arses! More from their period of dominance rather than a snobby point of view

The London clubs are a bit of an odd set, Quins are usually ok, Saracens seem to be a bunch of tossers, don't get me started on Wasps. London Irish, look forward to that game, great set of fans. I'll tell you who are a pain in the arse now, Exeter. Got a great team, and a fantastic club, but not keen on their fans at all

How about Bristol.

[MichaelRobartes]

There are down to earth clubs,such as Gloucester,but many of them are are definitely a bit snobby,the London clubs being examples of this.How do The Cherries see Bath,a bit snobby or similar to themselves.

Of the London clubs I've only been to Quins and I thought their fans were as friendly and down to earth as could be. An absolute pleasure to watch the game with them. Ditto Glaws.

[Rich]

Trust me, the England football fans of the 80s done far more damage than any of the fans that followed the Lions

Don't forget that normal people spend 4 years saving to go on these trips, doesn't make them any better than you or I but its their passion so that's what they do

There you go again, missing my point completely. I refer to the arrogant/ignorant type of rugger fellow I have come across, not the normal fan in the street. I'm talking about the college and uni educated ones that go into law, or journalism, or teaching to name but a few that don't need to save to go on jollies. I'm not comparing fans, I'm asking if there are a set of rugby followers that people have come across who actually think that kicking a ball, whatever shape it is, straight or at an angle, over and between two posts with the aid of a plastic cup to make it easier.while the opposition stand and watch, is a special skill compared to say kicking a football past a defensive wall, into an eight yard wide goal with a GK trying to stop it.

Have you retracted your claim that I'm a hater yet

[Son of Fred]

I've recently had two seperate discussions (rather heated) with a couple of relatively young but seemingly well educated professional type rugby followers. I don't know how they started but, they both tried to claim that rugby was a more skillfull game than football. I asked them to carry a ball in their arms across a field while running and then to do the same with a ball at their feet. As they were both in their early twenties I came to the conclusion that they had gone to rugby playing colleges and had been indoctrinated with this utter bullshit propoganda, which would be typical of the way they put down the game of the working classes. Anyone had simmilar debates?

I'm not saying there is no skill to rugby but, ultimately using any part of your body to control a ball whether it be round or oval, other than with your hands and arms has, to be more skillful.

..im a football and rugby union man-dont know why some of the plummy rugby set need to take the moral high ground over football.both games very skillful in their own ways.a couple of rugby mates of mine call footballers "lawn faries"!!..no chance ever of them acknowledging football in any way ever..arrogance id say-yet another mate whos an "old colstonian",plays for the Navy and was also a decent cricketer would never knock football.guess some people are brighter than others-public schooling or not...

[Southport Red]

There you go again, missing my point completely. I refer to the arrogant/ignorant type of rugger fellow I have come across, not the normal fan in the street. I'm talking about the college and uni educated ones that go into law, or journalism, or teaching to name but a few

Still a stereotype Rich, and not worthy of you. I went to Uni and have already stated on this thread that I support Bath, consequently, four or five posters on here would clearly characterize me as an arrogant toff, despite the fact I grew up in Sea Mills and that they have never met me.

Facts are, there ARE *^#s that follow rugby but, as I said before, if you are talking about arrogant, look no further than your top 4 premiership football fan.

[BS15_RED]

Still a stereotype Rich, and not worthy of you. I went to Uni and have already stated on this thread that I support Bath, consequently, four or five posters on here would clearly characterize me as an arrogant toff, despite the fact I grew up in Sea Mills and that they have never met me.

Facts are, there ARE *^#s that follow rugby but, as I said before, if you are talking about arrogant, look no further than your top 4 Premier League football fan.

I'd class you as a Toff! Growing up in Sea Mills and supporting Bath? Shame on you! C'mon Bris! As for this topic in general, what a load of tosh. Yes Rugby fans tend to be from a higher social standing, but no more so than Cricket. I myself am a big Rugby fan, I went to a state school and I'm a humble delivery driver. As for Rugby players, in my experience they're a lot more approachable and polite than the majority of Footballer's I've met. To be honest it seems like a lot of people have inferiority complexes on this thread.

[Rich]

Still a stereotype Rich, and not worthy of you. I went to Uni and have already stated on this thread that I support Bath, consequently, four or five posters on here would clearly characterize me as an arrogant toff, despite the fact I grew up in Sea Mills and that they have never met me.

Facts are, there ARE *^#s that follow rugby but, as I said before, if you are talking about arrogant, look no further than your top 4 Premier League football fan.

It's very difficult to describe people that you've come across without being stereotypical, I did refer to the other fans of the sport and obviously not all people educated at uni or college are from definative social groups, as I've said before but didn't think I had to repeat it on every post. The ones I have met and are arrogant and or ignorant, do tend to come from those groups but not humble backgrounds, like yours. There, I hope that wasn't being sterotypical.

[MichaelRobartes]

There you go again, missing my point completely. I refer to the arrogant/ignorant type of rugger fellow I have come across, not the normal fan in the street. I'm talking about the college and uni educated ones that go into law, or journalism, or teaching to name but a few that don't need to save to go on jollies. I'm not comparing fans, I'm asking if there are a set of rugby followers that people have come across who actually think that kicking a ball, whatever shape it is, straight or at an angle, over and between two posts with the aid of a plastic cup to make it easier.while the opposition stand and watch, is a special skill compared to say kicking a football past a defensive wall, into an eight yard wide goal with a GK trying to stop it.

Have you retracted your claim that I'm a hater yet

I'm a PhD student who likes rugby more than football and happens to think that there is as much if not more skill in rugby than there is in football. Does that make me ignorant/arrogant/a toff?

Seriously, it's a silly comparison. Though I can see why people mock the play-acting, ref-abusing antics that are sadly now a normal and accepted part of football. I think there are plenty of football fans who don't like it much either.

[ashtonphil]

There you go again, missing my point completely. I refer to the arrogant/ignorant type of rugger fellow I have come across, not the normal fan in the street. I'm talking about the college and uni educated ones that go into law, or journalism, or teaching to name but a few that don't need to save to go on jollies. I'm not comparing fans, I'm asking if there are a set of rugby followers that people have come across who actually think that kicking a ball, whatever shape it is, straight or at an angle, over and between two posts with the aid of a plastic cup to make it easier.while the opposition stand and watch, is a special skill compared to say kicking a football past a defensive wall, into an eight yard wide goal with a GK trying to stop it.

Have you retracted your claim that I'm a hater yet

You must be joking on teacher's salary especially if you have kids..

I can see where you are coming from, but its the same as saying that every football fan is a hooligan

[Southport Red]

. There, I hope that wasn't being sterotypical.

No, you weren't then.

I totally agree that there are rugby fans of a certain 'type' and it seems you have et your fair share of them. I don't like 'em either, and can can certainly agree that they can be rather up themselves. The class thing, however, I'm not so sure about. They could ( probably would) argue that 'all football fans are blue-collar scum ( and some are),

I get your point, you are not saying that ALL rugby fans are like that, just that some are and, when you meet them, they are irritating. Amen to that brother.

I'd still like to see the 10 meter advance for talking back rule and the only the captain talks to the ref rule in football though.

['Orns]

There you go again, missing my point completely. I refer to the arrogant/ignorant type of rugger fellow I have come across, not the normal fan in the street. I'm talking about the college and uni educated ones that go into law, or journalism, or teaching to name but a few that don't need to save to go on jollies. I'm not comparing fans, I'm asking if there are a set of rugby followers that people have come across who actually think that kicking a ball, whatever shape it is, straight or at an angle, over and between two posts with the aid of a plastic cup to make it easier.while the opposition stand and watch, is a special skill compared to say kicking a football past a defensive wall, into an eight yard wide goal with a GK trying to stop it.

Have you retracted your claim that I'm a hater yet

Get that bug about being a hater out of your ass, makes you look like you feel you're losing the argument.....

There are plenty of lawyers, journalists and teachers, to name a few, who follow football. I know, because I know someone from each profession that love football, and don't like rugby. Maybe you are losing the argument......

['Orns]

How about Bristol.

Good lads, shame about the cuckoos who share their ground.....

[ashtonphil]

Get that bug about being a hater out of your ass, makes you look like you feel you're losing the argument.....

There are plenty of lawyers, journalists and teachers, to name a few, who follow football. I know, because I know someone from each profession that love football, and don't like rugby. Maybe you are losing the argument......

Couldn't agree more - I think the OP has dug himself a little hole that he is desperately trying to get out of and can't.

[Rich]

Get that bug about being a hater out of your ass, makes you look like you feel you're losing the argument.....

There are plenty of lawyers, journalists and teachers, to name a few, who follow football. I know, because I know someone from each profession that love football, and don't like rugby. Maybe you are losing the argument......

There is no argument to lose as I see it, so don't put on that arrogant rugby watching attitude with me . I am saying that I've met, witnessed and read this attitude towards football and it's followers, if your telling me I'm wrong, then I bow to your greater knowledge of what I've experienced.

Do you honestly believe that all the things written about football and it's followers has not been exagerated by people in the media, that looked down their noses at it? Some of it was obviously written to sell stories, some of it was obviously true but, there's a great deal written about the the game by people who know jack shit about it or the actual events. The first thing they say is that (insert who you'd like) fans have been involved in violent clashes in, wherever. It turns out that instead of the picture painted of drunken louts lobbing bottles into the local markets, a group of normal people, who just happened to be football supporters, were set on by local gangs. The thing is though, those initial reports are never retracted but used at a later date as evidence of a history of misdemeanors. That's the type of thing I'm referring to.

So you know a few professional types that follow football, so do I, I'm not saying they only follow rugby. I'm saying that there seems to be a certain amount of followers from the rugby fraternity that like to portray their game as superior in skills when compared to football, like the two youngsters I met recently. It would seem also that, they are using their positions and always have, whether that be teaching, journalism or whatever, to emphasise that opinion and possibly influence others into having similar thoughts. In my experience, there were always more rugby oriented teachers than those interested in football. At our school (Briz) we had equal football and rugby lessons, even though many many more pupils wanted football. At St Bernadettes, I'm told they didn't play any football, that is an example of the hirearchy influencing pupils.

That's why I asked the question, has anyone else experienced this?

[ashtonphil]

At St Bernadettes, I'm told they didn't play any football, that is an example of the hirearchy influencing pupils.

That's why I asked the question, has anyone else experienced this?

In some independent (posh) schools in Bristol they play football for a term and rugby for one term. Although previously it wasn't the case. It is now

There are people who are as you suggest, there are many many more that aren't. Football has a hierarchy - I know that I get asked - "What Premier League do you support?" and get laughed at when I say I don't - isn't that the same.

The games themselves are very different and need a different skill set to play well. I have seen more rugby players playing football than I have footballers playing rugby (If that makes sense!!)

[Rich]

Couldn't agree more - I think the OP has dug himself a little hole that he is desperately trying to get out of and can't.

Which is exactly the sort of response I'd expect from one rugger fellow backing up another,, ie: put the football fan down.

We can all give examples of say, a scaffolder watching rugby or a doctor watching football, I'm not referring to those examples. I'm telling of my experiences of predjudism by some followers of rugby towards football and especially it's supporters. So if you think that's digging a hole for myself, so be it.

[ashtonphil]

For god's sake man, I'm a football fan always have been, always will be...

I happen to teach both rugby and football and I guarantee you I think that football is a better game. Am I a rugby type?? No I am local boy who happened to get opportunities and took them. Yes I went to private school and university (where I played FOOTBALL in national finals!!)

Your argument doesn't hold up is all I have ever suggested. I think honestly you met a pair of numpties on which you have based your argument and if they felt the same about you there might be a debate going on a rugby forum somewhere about their opinion of you.

[Rich]

At St Bernadettes, I'm told they didn't play any football, that is an example of the hirearchy influencing pupils.

That's why I asked the question, has anyone else experienced this?

In some independent (posh) schools in Bristol they play football for a term and rugby for one term. Although previously it wasn't the case. It is now

There are people who are as you suggest, there are many many more that aren't. Football has a hierarchy - I know that I get asked - "What Premier League do you support?" and get laughed at when I say I don't - isn't that the same.

The games themselves are very different and need a different skill set to play well. I have seen more rugby players playing football than I have footballers playing rugby (If that makes sense!!)

The reason, as if you didn't know, why more rugby players play football than likewise is simple. It's because football is more popular than rugby. As for the premiership smugness then I agree with you to a point. Their team is obviously superior to ours and many more, so it's a way of taking the piss and feeling good about themselves. Whereas my opinion is that, rugby is not a superior game to football in terms of overall skill, depending on what you define as skill so there is nothing warranting that superior stance, by some. There are areas where it is superior, like in the discipline, the respect for officials, the commitment and the beer on terraces.

[Rich]

For god's sake man, I'm a football fan always have been, always will be...

I happen to teach both rugby and football and I guarantee you I think that football is a better game. Am I a rugby type?? No I am local boy who happened to get opportunities and took them. Yes I went to private school and university (where I played FOOTBALL in national finals!!)

Your argument doesn't hold up is all I have ever suggested. I think honestly you met a pair of numpties on which you have based your argument and if they felt the same about you there might be a debate going on a rugby forum somewhere about their opinion of you.

I don't get it, as I'm not arguing with you about the numpties I met recently or my life experiences, how can you say my argument doesn't stand up? I'm asking and always did from the original post, if people have had simmilar experiences of arrogance and ignorance towards football and it's followers by certain types of rugby followers.

[ashtonphil]

I've re-read your original post and the answer is Yes I have. The rest of the debate has strayed from this and talked about sterotyping, which I wanted to correct as I don't think that's fair.

Truce !!!!

[Rich]

I've re-read your original post and the answer is Yes I have. The rest of the debate has strayed from this and talked about sterotyping, which I wanted to correct as I don't think that's fair.

Truce !!!!

I try not to sterotype by highlighting other groups of people but it's difficult when you want to be specific, unfortunately some people don't read the post and digest it, they then refer to only one portion of mine or anyone elses post sighting stereotyping and it goes off on a tangent.

[Kenn Loyal]

Complete bollocks. Come watch a game at Gloucester, not many silver spoons stuck up our arses, I can assure you of that

I often get the feeling that people that slag rugby off are the ones that wouldn't have the guts to actually play the game

Rather polish a turd