A Football Discussion

[Show Me The Money!]

Hi All,

I'd to have this thread to discuss what from a footballing point of view people think we are doing wrong and what we should be doing. I'd like to have a thread where we don't slag off and try and destroy individual players, coaches or board members and just talk football.

My thoughts on watching the past 2 games are

- The team seem to be really lacking confidence at the moment and not looking comfortable on the ball

- trying to play a possession passing style of play is great but it has to have some purpose. Our playing it out from the back and across the back 4 is currently so slow and pedestrian it just allows the away team to get there shape behind the ball and make it extremely difficult to play through. Hence the need to end up just hitting hopeful balls

- cross field passes - look great but often leave us with a full back with bugger all options and ends up with the ball being passed across the back 4 again before we then hit another hopeful ball forward

- if we are going to play possession passing football we need to have a lot more movement from the front 6. A lot of the time the back four get stick from the crowd for lumping it when they don't have any other options. We don't try and stretch the play when we have the ball very well. Wide men who tuck in when we don't have the ball don't then rush to get out wide when we do.

- we need more purpose in our attacking play, yesterday we played far to many short passes into midfield that just came back to the back four again. This comes back to movement again and players getting themselves space to turn and face the oppositions goal.

- this isn't a moan at a player perse as he is a quality player but I do wish that JET would move a round a bit better. He needs to find areas where he can get on the ball and turn and commit defenders creating more space for other players.

- physicality seems to be an issue as well, Wolves, Peterborough and Shrewsbury seemed to be stronger than us physically. We do need to impose ourselves more physically on the opposition. Unfortunately I feel we are missing a player that can do that. We're too nice.

Let us know your thoughts

[Mad Cyril]

Great post. Spot on about movement among the front six. It always amazes me how they all seem to stand still together or at best all jog in exactly the same direction at the same time. Why not go random and mix it up. Even corners are movement as one.

Some credit should also be given to the last two teams we have played. They immediately close down the opposition when they lose the ball. This would be harder to do if more players on our team were moving of course.

[spudski]

It might be a while before you get any 'Football' discussion on here mate ;-) Nice post btw.

[Show Me The Money!]

It might be a while before you get any 'Football' discussion on here mate ;-) Nice post btw.

Maybe I should have titled it "Lets kill SOD"

Would get more reads then

[downendcity]

Agree with your comment about physicality. Since GJ left all too often we have been muscled out of games and especially in midfield where we seem powder puff by comparison with most opposition.

[Red-Robbo]

I agree with the OP's points. Particularly the pointless back 4 pass (and not move) process that slowed play down and ensured all the players in front of them were nicely marked before we attempted to pass the ball upfield. Possession is fine, but Shrewsbury showed how devastating breakaway football can be, and that needs off-ball movement and a good understanding between team mates. Maybe that'll come within a side that are mainly unfamiliar with each other at this stage.

The worse thing last night and on Saturday, was the hoofs up for JET and Sam. One man who is a 8" shorter than his marker and the other who cannot (or will not jump). They always lost us possession.

JET needs the ball at his feet, his close control is quite good as we know, but he won't control one at head level. Sam needs either an over-the-top dink to run onto, or a ball dropping about 6ft wide of their last man. Then his pace comes into play.

[Simon79]

Good post. For a long time, movement has been a massive problem at this club( in England generally). A player can only pass to feet if he has an option. Players in good teams always have 3/4 or more options, it's then about making the correct decision. When players don't have these options, they will play percentages or hoof ball if you want! Players lacking in confidence ( when getting booed etc), always seem to lack in the movement department( go hiding if you will). This might not go down to well on here, but one of the best players we have with regards to movement IMO is killkenny. Always available for his team mates. We do lack physicality, but if we put players in who have this, we then lose the ability on the ball to play an expansive passing game which we have all been crying out for. So I guess it then comes down to getting the correct blend together and you are not likely to get that after 6 or so games. So then it comes down to sticking to your beliefs and playing the game that you believe will be to your betterment in the future. IMO we will get their if time is given? If anyone can come up with a cheap 6ft 4" bloke who is good on the ball, that could also help!

[ciderbeans]

They need to cut out long balls over the top to baldock. It needs to be through ball on the floor for him to run on to.

There arent enough forward passes in the final third trying to exploit the opposition defence.

Corners need to be taken as corners to make advantage of flint in the box. There are too many short corners to nothing.

There isn't enough pass and move going on on a regular basis. They need to work smart, not hard. Make the opposition run around them, then exploit the space made from a player moving out of position.

There seems to be a lapse in concentration at attacking set plays. We lose the ball and concede. Should NOT happen. Must be cut out.

[JamesBCFC]

Good post, the thing that bugged me almost as much as the lack if movement for passes to be made was fieldings distribution, the amount of times he walks the ball halfway towards the halfway line, then kicks instead of a quick throw to someone or a pass to a full back in space got on my nerves and I consider myself quite a patient person

[Aizoon]

There seems to be a lapse in concentration at attacking set plays. We lose the ball and concede. Should NOT happen. Must be cut out.

In my more negative moments I sometimes wonder whether we concede more from these than we score Probably not, but it sometimes feels like it...

[Tom Fleuriot]

In my more negative moments I sometimes wonder whether we concede more from these than we score Probably not, but it sometimes feels like it...

It did feel last night like a City corner was more likely to end up with the ball in Fielding's hands than the Shrews keeper's.

[Fiale]

I think it was all summed up at one point when hardwood collected the ball near the half way line, made a run to the corner of their box, turned, ran a few feet towards our half, stopped turned right, moved a few feet and the whole time he was doing this (20 second s ish) he was looking for someone to pass to... The whole team from the start of his move to the end were just stood watching him..

I thought the entire game was poor last night. Even Hardwood did not really make any impact, it was when we finally bought on Reid who always looks to make a attacking pass or run forward with b the ball that we looked able to create... It also seemed to galvanise the rest of the team.

[Fiale]

DP..

[pongo88]

It's a good post but it illustrates SoD's problems. He's trying to change the style of play but has enormous constraints, mainly financial. He can't bring in the quality players needed to play this style so is making do with what he can afford.

He could of course change the style of play to suit what he's got but IMO this would be a short term solution. Better, in the long term, to stick with his grand plan and recognise that it's going to take time to get the right mix of players (on the cheap) for City to be successful

[Major Isewater]

I was looking for OTIB , sorry to bother you

[internetjef]

Reid seems to offer everything we need to link the defence to the attackers. His movement is great and he always wants the ball.

The more gametime he gets the better he will get. When fit i reckon he should be one of the first names on the teamsheet.

Probably need to stick Marv in next to him initially for a bit of power.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Football Discussion... On OTIB....

You're having a giggle

[Swindon8er]

I think it was all summed up at one point when hardwood collected the ball near the half way line, made a run to the corner of their box, turned, ran a few feet towards our half, stopped turned right, moved a few feet and the whole time he was doing this (20 second s ish) he was looking for someone to pass to... The whole team from the start of his move to the end were just stood watching him..

I thought the entire game was poor last night. Even Hardwood did not really make any impact, it was when we finally bought on Reid who always looks to make a attacking pass or run forward with b the ball that we looked able to create... It also seemed to galvanise the rest of the team.

Disagree there that Harewood didn't make an impact, he gave us much more presence upfront, and only after he came on did the Shrews defence actually have some work to do, must start Saturday imo.

[formerly known as ivan]

I think the midfield is the problem at the moment. No real protection in front of the back four and no one bursts forward in attack.

We lack a real ball winner in the middle. Wynter seemed to show that but hasnt had much game time lately. Elliott will run and run but doesnt win many tackles or if he does tends to give it away not long after. Pack just seems to trot around occasionally playing a great pass but cant help feel the game passes him by and maybe why no one has taken a chance on him before us. Reid got potential and arguably our best midfielder so far this season but he is raw and will have as many quiet games as he does influential. We wont mention kilkenny! Cant help but feel we are massively missing kelly and he will be like a new signing when he returns. Nearly a forgotten man.

Then we have our wingers. I started a post yesterday regarding wagstaff as I really dont think he is good enough. Seen little to no quality from him this season. Bryan is a funny one. He is young and still learning but there seems to be something missing from him. Appears to play a lot of his football with his head done and not knowing what is going on around him. Also cuts inside to much and wants to take an extra touch before crossing the ball. Again he is young and still learning.

Add to this the overall lack of movement around the pitch and we have issues.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

To my mind, the reasons why it is not happening at the moment, will have less to do with selection or tactics, football stuff, and more to do with basic human stuff. We have a new group of players, forming, or trying to, a unit. With a coaching/ management set up less than a year in situ. There is all the group stuff-forming, storming, norming, performing(!)-if you want to allow for such ideas. And individual stuff: anyone started a new job recently? How'd you get on, first day? Embarrass yourself, like Frank? Did you have to move house, too? Got everything sorted at home, kids into school, etc? No doubt we won't see your best work just yet. Take some settling in first. But take no notice if a few give you a mouthful when you mess up.

Then there is the manager, who is attempting to get the players to think for themselves, which he says they are not used to. And he has some unusual ideas about winning or losing, saying he has little control over this. Can only control how players practice and prepare, so emphasises this. And some other, leftfield, anti-personality manager ideas, that jar with some supporters. And, possibly, with one or two players. Players who may not have yet "bought into" what this quiet, serious manager is proposing.

So, lots of change. In a short time.

Plus, the boss seriously misjudged a player that most fans knew was "shot" and we began, defensively, too nervously. That player has left for a bit but the damage had been done. Was that a football misjudgment, or simply a human one?

[Harry]

I might be bucking the trend a little here, but I'm not so sure the midfield are at fault.

It's all very easy to point the finger at the central midfield area, after all, they are the ones whose job it is to both defend and attack in equal measure. It's also the area where generally most of the play develops.

However, I've not seen any examples of where the central midfield have been culpable of late.

Look at the Shrewsbury game last night. Shrews didn't actually create a single clear cut chance aside from the one Shorey gifted them for the goal. They had a number of shots from distance and a few chances from corners & free kicks. Not once did their midfield walk through ours as was evident all year last year.

Conversely, most of our opportunities were created by something happening in the centre of the park. Pack linked with JET and O'Connor and JET again for his tame shot early 2nd half. Pack linked again with Baldock for his effort from the edge of the box. Pack drove forward after winning a tackle, which then resulted in our goal 10 seconds later when the ball was won again in the centre and Pack played the final ball to JET to unleash his bolt. Bobby Reid regularly asked questions from a central area when he came on.

So even though we didn't appear overly creative in the midfield, we did actually see a number of our chances come from this area. Whilst at no point in the game did any threat from the opposition result directly from the midfield not doing their job.

I'd like to take this back to the Peterborough and Gillingham games too.

Again, at no point v P'Boro did we concede chances through the middle. For me the central midfield did their job defensively. Their first goal came from the a full back in acres of space being allowed to cut inside and shoot, where Fielding put it on a plate for their striker.

The penalty came from play and movement down the right flank resulting in an incisive through ball.

Their 2nd goal was simply a wondrous strike, but he was allowed to get out of a tight spot in the right corner flag, play out, cut back in and shoot. Their 3rd goal was a breakaway where Cunningham was outstripped for pace.

So again, nothing was created where the midfield was overran or opened up.

Same with Gillingham. Their goal came from a long throw. They had other chances that came from crosses or set-pieces. At no point was the central midfield carved open. Plus, as with last night, most of our chances in that game came in some way from the central area's.

So all in all, the last 3 games have been somewhat disappointing and on the face of it, it is very easy to lay the blame at the midfield. But if you look at the evidence not once in these 3 games have the central midfield been opened up. Yes, they've made errors or given the ball away or not picked the right pass, but overall, they've not been carved open as we saw on so so so many occasions last year.

It's pretty hard to say exactly what needs to be put right at the moment, because things could so easily have been different. A huge error by our most experienced player in Shorey resulted in their goal last night. Aside from that, although having plenty of possession and shots they didn't really look at all threatening. A huge error by the keeper gifted P'boro the lead on Saturday after City had dominated the first 15-20 mins and were looking decent. That mistake changes the game against a good side.

One long throw resulted in the goal at Gills, after which City had more than enough chances to win the game.

Yes we have a young side which are going to make mistakes at the moment, but cut out the 2 errors by 2 players who've been in full England squads and you could have seen a very different set of results.

That's not being blind to the fact that we haven't done a lot of things we should be doing in these games, but I also don't think it should be all doom and gloom. 2 points from those 3 games could so easily have been 6, 7 or 9 without those simple errors.

Given that fact, and the fact that we all feel as if we've underperformed so far, should that not at least be slightly encouraging - i.e. we think we can do more, but we've actually not been outplayed and have in fact gifted the opposition the points. If we cut out the errors, we might see some positive results.

All that said, tactically we're not providing enough width and options when on the ball. Plus we're conceding to much width when without the ball. Our full backs have been out of position too much, either too far away from the centre back thus allowing space for through balls/runs in the channel between, or they are too far up the field chasing a lost cause or closing their winger too high up the pitch leaving the CB's exposed. A lot of this can be put on the fact they don't have a great deal of help in front of them, but there have been a number of concentrational errors in the FB position.

Most of the goals or chances we're conceding are seeming to come from wide area's where players are allowed to run and cut inside or it's all too easy to put a cross over. I think this is perfectly evident with the team selection last night with both young full backs dropped to the bench.

[Red-Robbo]

It's a good post but it illustrates SoD's problems. He's trying to change the style of play but has enormous constraints, mainly financial. He can't bring in the quality players needed to play this style so is making do with what he can afford.

He could of course change the style of play to suit what he's got but IMO this would be a short term solution. Better, in the long term, to stick with his grand plan and recognise that it's going to take time to get the right mix of players (on the cheap) for City to be successful

Hmmm. Shrewsbury (17th last year) have all our constraints and more. Yet they convincingly won the first half and could have quite conceivably left with all 3 points.

[Aizoon]

Harry, a truly excellent post, which I'm certainly not going to quote verbatim.

Just to say that this is what I met by "not just counting the goals". I would suspect that Sean's analysis would be very similar to yours.

People have very short memories, but last season the middle of our defence might just as well had a freeway sign in the middle and a "help yourself" sign at the back. It seemed that all an attacker had to do was run in a straight line and defenders would politely step aside. At least that isn't happening any more.

In my humble opinion, we were the better side yesterday, not by a huge margin, but enough so that we deserved to win. I also think that the longer these players stay together, the better they will get.

If fans want a team that has a divine right to win every game, maybe they should look towards Manchester or Catalonia. Maybe the reason other fans see us as a "Mr Big Bollocks" club, is because that's what too many of our fans think we are. At least in living memory, we're a mid-range club that's had a few seasons at the top level. Of my 53 years as a City fan, 47 have been spent in the second or third tiers. In fact we've spent almost as long in the basement as in the penthouse.

We don't have that divine right, but we do have a project that will be worth following through. We've tried buying success, and the result was a shambles. Now, that option is closed to us by SCMP, so we'll have to do it the same way as Alan Dicks did in the 70's. Personally, I'm looking forward to the ride.

[Harry]

But Ralph. In general, the basics are coming together. The goals against this season gave mostly come down to individual errors. 16 goals against so far and I'd bet at least half of those have been individual mistakes that can be prevented. Surely that warrants a bit of time for the boss (and players) to iron out those mistakes, and not press the trigger 7 games into a season.

[RegC]

Personally, the Shrewsbury game represented a new low for me. I'm prepared for it to still get worse before it gets better as I'm not sure we've reached our nadir yet. But I do tust what the club are tring to achieve. We're transforming the entire footballing philosophy of the club. And that takes more than 7 league games.

COYR

[downendcity]

Aizoon, I speak for myself here and probably all of the other people who are getting it in the neck from the pro SOD camp when I say it isnt about the divine right to win anything.

It's about having a competative, competent, tactically adept team that are consistent. It's football, so games will be lost however, if we are at least doing the basics right and thats something that hasnt been address for years and multiple managers despite promises otherwise, then people would be a lot more supportive of what is going on. We arent and are still effectively sliding with no option of bottoming out which frankly scares the crap out of people.

Apparently though this is like asking for the Queen to be replaced by a piece of cheese or something in so much as that it is impossible, when actually to many, us doing the basics right should be straight forward and we can build from there. That's pretty much the reason for dissention as far as I can see, and is certainly why I'm so miffed at everything.

Ralph

Don't you think that those are exactly the same factors that are central to all that our manager is trying to do?

I read one of your posts the other day ( I am pretty sure it was you, but apologies if it was someone else) where you outlined how you would have gone about managing the team to implement the new philosophy/long term plan, and it sounded so simple and straightforward and seemed to offer guaranteed success. However, I noticed that your outline conveniently ignored all the variables,that on a day to day basis impact on SOD's ability to get the results he wants.

The main one of these is the players, and your approach seems to work on the basis that you tell them what you wanted of them, what to do and how to do it, then they would follow the instructions to the letter. That approach sounds very similar to Gary Johnson's, and he was an autocratic manager who told his players what to do and was also a disciplinarian in terms of making sure they did what they were told. Unfortunately, once the players got fed up with this style of management they were no longer prepared to do what he told them to do the and the end was in sight and we saw what happened to results at that time. This doesn't strike me as the foundation for any plan to work long term.

While SOD is coaching the overall playing style, where his approach seems to be a lot different than managers we've had - certainly in the recent past - is the emphasis on getting the players to make decisions for themselves out on the pitch. This also ties in with his desire to sign intelligent players, not just players with basic footballing skills.

There seems pretty general agreement the style of football being played this season is a huge improvement on the dross served up over the last 3/4 years, although sceptics will doubtless put up a load of statistics to prove otherwise. I take this to show his coaching is working, although like every manager he has probably made some tactical and selection mistakes and we would all be foolish to be unconcerned by our lack of a league win and our current position in the table. However, as a another poster has pointed out, the season has been blighted by individual mistakes by players that have cost us dearly and at key times in both individual games and the season as a whole.

Take the first game of the season. By pretty common consent we were playing very well, on top and in the lead and then Fielding has a rush of blood and gifts an equaliser. Bradford get an unexpected lift and our new players are deflated and in the end we hold on for a draw, Without Fielding's mistake we would probably have gone on to comfortable and confidence boosting win and would not now still have the monkey on our backs of no league win. Against Posh it was much the same as we were holding one of the strongest teams in the division until another Fielding gaff gifts them a goal , their tales are up and we are chasing the game. Shorey on Tuesday gives Shrews a rare chance, and again the course of a game is influenced by a mistake, and this from an experienced player. How can a manager legislate for mistakes like this, other than trying to eliminate them in future?

All of us are concerned about our league position and lack of wins, but fans seem to be divided on how we go forward. Most in your camp seem to have been sceptical almost from the beginning of the season, whether about the long term plan, the manager or both. They seem to refuse to acknowledge any positive signs at all and grab every mistake and setback as conclusive proof that either the plan is failing or that the manager is, or both.

Others support the club's attempts to change the way the club is run, both financially and particularly on the pitch because they see the need to change and the long term benefits of so doing. They also realise that things will be tougher in the early stages ( but probably didn't expect it to be this tough!). SOD has drawn the short straw because he inherited the tail end of the previous on the pitch shambles and is reaping the reward for the financial profligacy of the past, so has to bring the changes about with all the excuses to which you always refer - financial restrictions, new team, young players, inexperienced players, new playing style etc. etc. etc.

Apart from the odd idiot, these fans are not the zealots you described them as being, but are probably long serving and long suffering supporters like me. They want the club to change and understand the plan that has been put in place to bring about that change. They want it to work and know it will take time, so are prepared to extend a good degree of trust and patience in order to give it the best chance possible. You may mock this trust and patience, but who said being a City supporter was easy and came with guarantees of success, and perhaps as fans we have to invest a bit more than hard earned money and time if we want the club to succeed?

The sceptics seem to be questioning the managers ability to implement the long term plan, or just his ability as manager full stop, but if this is the case then it seems to me that their only remedy would have to be to change the manager. Surely, one of the reasons we have got to where we are is because of the rapid turnover of managers and as a consequence a lack of any continuity or stability whatsoever since Johnson left. You keep saying you are not suggesting that you want SOD out, but you also keep saying that it doesn't have to be SOD who implements the plan, as any decent manager could do so , while continually criticising almost everything that SOD is doing at the moment - if that is not suggesting that a change of manager is needed I don't know what is.

When I was a young, inexperienced and uncertain manager my boss boosted my confidence by telling me to remember that throughout my career just about every member of staff would find cause to criticise my every action and decision because they thought they knew how to do my job better than me. The difference was that they didn't have to take responsibility for the consequence of those decisions and actions and also didn't know all the factors behind and that influenced my actions and decisions. I think that applies equally well to football managers and fans. 10,000 fans at the ground will always know what is wrong and how to do it better but given the chance could they do so?

If OTIB was around during the second world war, then after Dunkirk the sceptics on here would have been posting that the PM's plan was plainly not working and that without sacking Churchill and surrendering to Hitler we were surely doomed. Let's hope that last season was our Dunkirk, and that this season is our North Africa, where we lost battles but after victory at El Alemain turned the corner and went on to win the war.

Funnily enough, I suspect that you hope for pretty much the same as me. The difference is that I and many others are prepared to invest positive emotional energy into what the club and manager are trying to achieve, whereas the only emotion from you seems relentlessly negative and, as with those fans who booed and got on the players backs on Tuesday night, I cannot see how negative emotion can possibly help anyone at the moment.

P.S. Hope that wasn't too zealotish

Regards, Downend

[Snufflelufagus]

I think we look a bit unfit/slow on the break. When we pass it down the wings we then seem to come back inside into trouble. The fact we are launching it a bit much from the back would also suggest there are lack of options for a pass to midfield.

[Harry]

Hi Harry, we arent consistent and we cannot set up for 90 mins and cant compete for all that time. You yourself and here's a direct quote have said that we arent tactically adept

We also have problems with backing off and being able to be scythed through like a knife through butter which is a theme that has been in existence for years and hasnt been sorted by whatever manager

Finally we are too reliant on JET to get us out of trouble we've scored 11 goals in the league JET has 4 and a few assists iirc correctly. If he doesnt play well then in general we are knackered. It's much like the reliance on Adomah last season to do something.

So as said I want SOD to hit form and get these issues sorted, however he hasnt yet done so, despite being in charge for 8 months as irrespective of the personel and league some of the same problems remain.

PS I think one of last years reasons why we werent very good was also ' individual errors' it appears to be reason of the season again. Errors do and will happen in football, irrespective. We need to do more so that if one does occur it's not game over in terms of looking for a almost mythical thing in the form of a win

Yep, we're not consistent enough yet because this team has not settled yet. I don't know how long it SHOULD take to settle but I know that 7 games is nowhere near my tipping point.

I know you're laboring the point about this not being a new team and the manager has had 8 months etc etc, but I'm afraid we are polar opposites on this Ralph. Take Tuesday - Fielding, Flint, Williams, O'Connor, Shorey, Pack, Wagstaff & JET were not here last year. Bryan and Reid were both out on loan at the end of last year and generally not in SOD's squads. How can you possibly argue that this is not a new team trying to get familiar.

You've also posted various times about the philosophy and the system being put in place. You argue that the system is set and any manager can come in to take the reigns, so if SOD's done his job he can be replaced like for like by someone else. You are right, that is the desired outcome of this change, but you do realise don't you (please say you do), that this is still being implemented? It's not there yet ya know, so if you remove the man who is responsible for implementing it whilst in it's infancy, it will fail.

We all wants results Ralph, as SOD himself says today - it is a results business. But we all knew (at least I'd have thought we all did) that this was going to be a transitional season. Please tell me what your expectations for this year were, and why, after just 7 games you do not feel your expectations can be met.

[Snufflelufagus]

I might be bucking the trend a little here, but I'm not so sure the midfield are at fault.

It's all very easy to point the finger at the central midfield area, after all, they are the ones whose job it is to both defend and attack in equal measure. It's also the area where generally most of the play develops.

However, I've not seen any examples of where the central midfield have been culpable of late.

Look at the Shrewsbury game last night. Shrews didn't actually create a single clear cut chance aside from the one Shorey gifted them for the goal. They had a number of shots from distance and a few chances from corners & free kicks. Not once did their midfield walk through ours as was evident all year last year.

Conversely, most of our opportunities were created by something happening in the centre of the park. Pack linked with JET and O'Connor and JET again for his tame shot early 2nd half. Pack linked again with Baldock for his effort from the edge of the box. Pack drove forward after winning a tackle, which then resulted in our goal 10 seconds later when the ball was won again in the centre and Pack played the final ball to JET to unleash his bolt. Bobby Reid regularly asked questions from a central area when he came on.

So even though we didn't appear overly creative in the midfield, we did actually see a number of our chances come from this area. Whilst at no point in the game did any threat from the opposition result directly from the midfield not doing their job.

I'd like to take this back to the Peterborough and Gillingham games too.

Again, at no point v P'Boro did we concede chances through the middle. For me the central midfield did their job defensively. Their first goal came from the a full back in acres of space being allowed to cut inside and shoot, where Fielding put it on a plate for their striker.

The penalty came from play and movement down the right flank resulting in an incisive through ball.

Their 2nd goal was simply a wondrous strike, but he was allowed to get out of a tight spot in the right corner flag, play out, cut back in and shoot. Their 3rd goal was a breakaway where Cunningham was outstripped for pace.

So again, nothing was created where the midfield was overran or opened up.

Same with Gillingham. Their goal came from a long throw. They had other chances that came from crosses or set-pieces. At no point was the central midfield carved open. Plus, as with last night, most of our chances in that game came in some way from the central area's.

So all in all, the last 3 games have been somewhat disappointing and on the face of it, it is very easy to lay the blame at the midfield. But if you look at the evidence not once in these 3 games have the central midfield been opened up. Yes, they've made errors or given the ball away or not picked the right pass, but overall, they've not been carved open as we saw on so so so many occasions last year.

It's pretty hard to say exactly what needs to be put right at the moment, because things could so easily have been different. A huge error by our most experienced player in Shorey resulted in their goal last night. Aside from that, although having plenty of possession and shots they didn't really look at all threatening. A huge error by the keeper gifted P'boro the lead on Saturday after City had dominated the first 15-20 mins and were looking decent. That mistake changes the game against a good side.

One long throw resulted in the goal at Gills, after which City had more than enough chances to win the game.

Yes we have a young side which are going to make mistakes at the moment, but cut out the 2 errors by 2 players who've been in full England squads and you could have seen a very different set of results.

That's not being blind to the fact that we haven't done a lot of things we should be doing in these games, but I also don't think it should be all doom and gloom. 2 points from those 3 games could so easily have been 6, 7 or 9 without those simple errors.

Given that fact, and the fact that we all feel as if we've underperformed so far, should that not at least be slightly encouraging - i.e. we think we can do more, but we've actually not been outplayed and have in fact gifted the opposition the points. If we cut out the errors, we might see some positive results.

All that said, tactically we're not providing enough width and options when on the ball. Plus we're conceding to much width when without the ball. Our full backs have been out of position too much, either too far away from the centre back thus allowing space for through balls/runs in the channel between, or they are too far up the field chasing a lost cause or closing their winger too high up the pitch leaving the CB's exposed. A lot of this can be put on the fact they don't have a great deal of help in front of them, but there have been a number of concentrational errors in the FB position.

Most of the goals or chances we're conceding are seeming to come from wide area's where players are allowed to run and cut inside or it's all too easy to put a cross over. I think this is perfectly evident with the team selection last night with both young full backs dropped to the bench.

A lot of Valid points Harry. I would ask you though how many times any of our midfield have got into the box when we've actually crossed the ball in. In fact when we do get it in the box there is very often only 1 person in the box.

[Rich_s]

Biggest frustration is the passing across the back four followed by a hoof onto the head of the defender marking Sam Baldock. It so tedious to watch over and over again. I think S'OD has gone a long way towards improving the defence but the midfield lack movement and vision. Pack looks decent as does Reid in the centre but it needs a true central play maker to link up play.

Nice post BTW. Makes a chance from S'OD out, Kevin Smith out and booing.