Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I see Rotherham have taken the Bolton striker Tom Eaves on loan, scored 13 in 26 for the gas and had a similar strike ratio on loan to Shrewsbury, have we missed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think we need to sort our defence out first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Only if we were in for him in the begining and hé preferred them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think we need to sort our defence out first I think we need to sort both out, if Baldock gets injured then what Harewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think we need a really pacy player in attack. Whether that's up front or on the wing. We seem to be getting into reasonable positions whereby if had a little more pace we could then get one on one with the keeper, but unfortunately we keep having to check back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 If Baldock gets injured then we look for a loan striker. That's how the loan system is meant to be used. There's no point in a player coming on loan just in case Baldock gets injured. Right now O'Connor is injured so the funds are needed to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 If Baldock gets injured then we look for a loan striker. That's how the loan system is meant to be used. There's no point in a player coming on loan just in case Baldock gets injured. Right now O'Connor is injured so the funds are needed to replace him. OK, so another panic loan, better start looking at the journeyman striker column of the PFA's trade it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think we need to sort both out, if Baldock gets injured then what Harewood? Taylor's on his way back. I know, I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcLamb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think we need a really pacy player in attack. Whether that's up front or on the wing. We seem to be getting into reasonable positions whereby if had a little more pace we could then get one on one with the keeper, but unfortunately we keep having to check back. Jet and Sammy are 2 of the quickest in the leauge we just dont feed baldock how he wants it and jet likes to do it on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcLamb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 If Baldock gets injured then we look for a loan striker. That's how the loan system is meant to be used. There's no point in a player coming on loan just in case Baldock gets injured. Right now O'Connor is injured so the funds are needed to replace him. But atleast he lasted longer than big GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fka dagest Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jet and Sammy are 2 of the quickest in the leauge we just dont feed baldock how he wants it and jet likes to do it on his own That's odd. I wouldn't say JET was particularly quick at all, whereas Baldock has never had the speed I was expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 OK, so another panic loan, better start looking at the journeyman striker column of the PFA's trade it then. Why should there be a panic? Reacting to circumstances is not necessarily a panic. For all you know there could be a lot of work going on identifying potential loan options to be used in the event of an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcLamb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 That's odd. I wouldn't say JET was particularly quick at all, whereas Baldock has never had the speed I was expecting. well againts palarse he broke thorugh the defence to score and no one caught up with him. he does look lazy on the ball and chasing but thats just because hes big! baldock has his days i must say but point i was getting at, whats the po8int in quick when we dont put the ball infront of people behind the back line to chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberry2157. Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jet and Sammy are 2 of the quickest in the leauge we just dont feed baldock how he wants it and jet likes to do it on his own Jet, quick? That would mean he needs to move! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcfcLamb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jet, quick? That would mean he needs to move! see post above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Why should there be a panic? Reacting to circumstances is not necessarily a panic. For all you know there could be a lot of work going on identifying potential loan options to be used in the event of an injury. Im sure the club/manager etc said at the end of last season that they were going to combile a database of all players available, for if they ever needed one at short notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Im sure the club/manager etc said at the end of last season that they were going to combile a database of all players available, for if they ever needed one at short notice. Ahhh they've been playing football manager all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Jet, quick? That would mean he needs to move! its JETS lack of mobility that holds him back from a higher level..we really do need a strong pacy target man for him to tuck in behind and for Baldock to feed from.top priority,make no mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 its JETS lack of mobility that holds him back from a higher level..we really do need a strong pacy target man for him to tuck in behind and for Baldock to feed from.top priority,make no mistake. Do we? Those two have set up the majority of one anothers goals! I would have thought they need more support from midfielders breaking ahead of JET. Well that is the impression I get when I've seen them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 its JETS lack of mobility that holds him back from a higher level..we really do need a strong pacy target man for him to tuck in behind and for Baldock to feed from.top priority,make no mistake. Do we? Those two have set up the majority of one anothers goals! I would have thought they need more support from midfielders breaking ahead of JET. Well that is the impression I get when I've seen them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 well againts palarse he broke thorugh the defence to score and no one caught up with him. he does look lazy on the ball and chasing but thats just because hes big! baldock has his days i must say but point i was getting at, whats the po8int in quick when we dont put the ball infront of people behind the back line to chase I disagree. I think we've got into many positions where some decent pace would take our player away from the opposition defence - only that we've been let down by not being fast enough. I think the example you're on about against Palace was a one off rather than the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 If Baldock gets injured then we look for a loan striker. That's how the loan system is meant to be used. There's no point in a player coming on loan just in case Baldock gets injured. Right now O'Connor is injured so the funds are needed to replace him. I just wish that was how we were using the loan system, but we're not. We are consistently failing to bring in who we need during pre-season and are relying on loan signings to prop up the team for a whole season, not just as stop gaps. How many times have we seen this now, we bring in a player on loan that's barely played for months and bang, injured again. We've now got to bring in another loan signing to replace the one that's out inured for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I just wish that was how we were using the loan system, but we're not. We are consistently failing to bring in who we need during pre-season and are relying on loan signings to prop up the team for a whole season, not just as stop gaps. How many times have we seen this now, we bring in a player on loan that's barely played for months and bang, injured again. We've now got to bring in another loan signing to replace the one that's out inured for months. Who have we got on season-long loan at the moment? If you're referring to O'Connor then what would be the point in signing a permanent right back when Moloney will develop to fill that role in time. Why not loan a player to cover the shortfall in numbers and experience and use the money spent to bring in players for the future elsewhere. I'm not saying it worked exactly like this but if the choice was: (a) Sign a permanent right back to compete with Moloney but be unable to afford Marlon Pack or (b) Sign Pack and loan a player short term to compete with Moloney then surely (b) makes more sense for the long term future of the club? City's wage budget is tight. It's not going to stretch to two experienced players for every position. Not of the quality required anyway. It needs to be targeted in the right areas and towards players who will improve and develop. That leaves a lack of experienced players (don't we know it) and the loan system is a way to work around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Who have we got on season-long loan at the moment? If you're referring to O'Connor then what would be the point in signing a permanent right back when Moloney will develop to fill that role in time. Why not loan a player to cover the shortfall in numbers and experience and use the money spent to bring in players for the future elsewhere. I'm not saying it worked exactly like this but if the choice was: (a) Sign a permanent right back to compete with Moloney but be unable to afford Marlon Pack or (b) Sign Pack and loan a player short term to compete with Moloney then surely (b) makes more sense for the long term future of the club? City's wage budget is tight. It's not going to stretch to two experienced players for every position. Not of the quality required anyway. It needs to be targeted in the right areas and towards players who will improve and develop. That leaves a lack of experienced players (don't we know it) and the loan system is a way to work around that. I realise there's nobody on a season long loan. What I'm saying is, for the last 3-4 years we've been relying on loan signings to get us through for a whole season through multiple loans. We've often been using loan signings as first choice, first team players, not as emergency cover. How many loan / short term defenders have we had? In particular centre back. O'Connor may be a rightback, but we've been playing him centreback because yet again, we've started a season desperately short in this key position. For me, we're too dependant on the loan market to make up for a lack of quality, rather than just emergency cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I realise there's nobody on a season long loan. What I'm saying is, for the last 3-4 years we've been relying on loan signings to get us through for a whole season through multiple loans. We've often been using loan signings as first choice, first team players, not as emergency cover. How many loan / short term defenders have we had? In particular centre back. O'Connor may be a rightback, but we've been playing him centreback because yet again, we've started a season desperately short in this key position. For me, we're too dependant on the loan market to make up for a lack of quality, rather than just emergency cover. Oh you're not wrong there. It must be 3 or 4 years ago now that Caulker was on loan and it's taken until this summer to address that position by signing Flint. I'd give O'Driscoll a bit of leeway over the centre back position as technically he has Fontaine to fill that position. It's just unfortunate that he's been unable to play it effectively this season. City are operating under restrictions now that may mean the loan market has to be used to provide cover / experience. That excuse doesn't wash for the managers who've gone before, though. Signings have been largely poorly thought out since Coppell took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Dan this lack of experience is a misnoma Well you can't include O'Connor and Shorey there because they are quite clearly short term signings to provide exactly the cover I've been talking about. Flint and Moloney are still relatively inexperienced, Pack is new to this league and most are new to the team. That was also a team picked to maximise the experience. It could easily have included Wynter, Bryan and Reid otherwise and it would have had a different complexion. I agree that the team is not completely inexperienced and maybe in some cases the management is making more of the inexperience than is actually the case, but it's hardly a team of grizzled old pros and the new permanent signings are the ones with the least experience. So your facts in no way contradict my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Oh you're not wrong there. It must be 3 or 4 years ago now that Caulker was on loan and it's taken until this summer to address that position by signing Flint. I'd give O'Driscoll a bit of leeway over the centre back position as technically he has Fontaine to fill that position. It's just unfortunate that he's been unable to play it effectively this season. I give him no leeway. He worked with him since January and had till August to realise he was shot and pony and needed to go. This even assumed he did no homework on the squad and team before taking the job, which I'm certain he would have done. Even if, just if, you thought Fontaine may turn it around here to go into the season with him, Carey and a young lad was nothing short of negligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I cant include players who were in the side, because they arent there? WHAT the blueblazes? That was the team from vs Swindon, are you saying that they werent playing now? Odd as, sorry Dan, but that is a bit daft. Well it depends on what your argument is, really. This topic is about using the loan system to provide cover and experience that doesn't exist within the permanent members of the squad (I know Shorey is not a loan but for the moment he might as well be as he's only contracted until January.) Your point is that the average age / experience of the squad is higher than people think it is, which is probably true, but mine is that O'Connor and Shorey have been brought in on short term deals for precisely that reason and that this is good work by the management. Therefore for the purposes of the argument I am having, they shouldn't be counted against the average for the squad. You may well be making a different point, but I am not arguing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well it depends on what your argument is, really. This topic is about using the loan system to provide cover and experience that doesn't exist within the permanent members of the squad (I know Shorey is not a loan but for the moment he might as well be as he's only contracted until January.) Your point is that the average age / experience of the squad is higher than people think it is, which is probably true, but mine is that O'Connor and Shorey have been brought in on short term deals for precisely that reason and that this is good work by the management. Therefore for the purposes of the argument I am having, they shouldn't be counted against the average for the squad. You may well be making a different point, but I am not arguing that. No the argument is to provide in the case of the defence much needed experience now and in the case of a striker because lose Baldock and we are devoid of a striker who can actually score goals. and you maybe right re-Shorey but my understanding was O'connor could well become a permanent signing, anyway not for the first time in our recent history the manager has chosen to strengthen areas that weren't actually a priority and ignore central defence and attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUp Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 its JETS lack of mobility that holds him back from a higher level..we really do need a strong pacy target man for him to tuck in behind and for Baldock to feed from.top priority,make no mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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