Kid in the Riot Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 SOD has made it very clear since the start of the season that he wants another CB and forward. I think Moloney and Cunninghams early season form forced his hand into recruiting full backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUp Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 A target man would only lead to an increased use of the long ball and pacy target men don't exist in the lower leagues.baldock is much quicker than your average league1 defender and we could do with a hartley type player to pick a pass for baldock to run on to.baldock likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender thats his strength, not getting on the end of crosses unfortunately it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 SOD has made it very clear since the start of the season that he wants another CB and forward. I think Moloney and Cunninghams early season form forced his hand into recruiting full backs. A decision that clearly has failed as far as our defence is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 No the argument is to provide in the case of the defence much needed experience now and in the case of a striker because lose Baldock and we are devoid of a striker who can actually score goals. and you maybe right re-Shorey but my understanding was O'connor could well become a permanent signing, anyway not for the first time in our recent history the manager has chosen to strengthen areas that weren't actually a priority and ignore central defence and attack. In what way are Shorey and O'Connor not providing much needed experience to the defence? O'Connor has played central defence at least as often as he's played full back since he's been at City. From what I saw in the Rovers game he looked perfectly competent in that position. The fact that their presence hasn't really improved matters is a different debate. It's not for want of doing the right thing. Also, I'm not sure about your point regarding Baldock, because isn't JET the top scorer? Losing one of those would be bad, for sure, but it's something to deal with if it happens, not waste precious money on just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 In what way are Shorey and O'Connor not providing much needed experience to the defence? O'Connor has played central defence at least as often as he's played full back since he's been at City. From what I saw in the Rovers game he looked perfectly competent in that position. The fact that their presence hasn't really improved matters is a different debate. It's not for want of doing the right thing. Also, I'm not sure about your point regarding Baldock, because isn't JET the top scorer? Losing one of those would be bad, for sure, but it's something to deal with if it happens, not waste precious money on just in case. Everything appears to be a different argument, defensively we have not improved at all with the introduction of these 2, so the experience they should provide appears to be failing, it was St Sod not me that said we needed a striker and a central defender but then brings in 2 full backs and a winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Everything appears to be a different argument, defensively we have not improved at all with the introduction of these 2, so the experience they should provide appears to be failing, it was St Sod not me that said we needed a striker and a central defender but then brings in 2 full backs and a winger. Well it's quite important to establish what is and is not relevant. Unless you're only looking for sticks with which to beat the manager, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Everything appears to be a different argument, defensively we have not improved at all with the introduction of these 2, so the experience they should provide appears to be failing, it was St Sod not me that said we needed a striker and a central defender but then brings in 2 full backs and a winger. Well looking at the goals individually, Cunningham has again been at fault for two goals in the last three games. Shorey was at fault for one v Shrews I'll give you that. Williams in the centre was at fault twice on Saturday...seeing as though you don't watch games I can't see how you can be that confident of making such a sweeping statement as the introduction of O'Connor and Shorey haven't improved the defence/full back positions AT ALL. SOD is 100% looking for a striker and a CB, why hasn't he recruited? Because the right player hasn't been available at the right price. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 SOD is 100% looking for a striker and a CB, why hasn't he recruited? Because the right player hasn't been available at the right price. Simple. That database being banged on about last year ain't much kop then is it. Does this beg questions about Keith Burt and his player-identifying abilities? Does it beg questions about how our budget has been allocated up to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well looking at the goals individually, Cunningham has again been at fault for two goals in the last three games. Shorey was at fault for one v Shrews I'll give you that. Williams in the centre was at fault twice on Saturday...seeing as though you don't watch games I can't see how you can be that confident of making such a sweeping statement as the introduction of O'Connor and Shorey haven't improved the defence/full back positions AT ALL. SOD is 100% looking for a striker and a CB, why hasn't he recruited? Because the right player hasn't been available at the right price. Simple. What a ridiculous statement, I don't need to be there to see we have conceded 7 goals in the last 3 league games, one against a team that you told this forum " Shrewsbury have a very weak forward line, which should be good news for our defence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 What a ridiculous statement, I don't need to be there to see we have conceded 7 goals in the last 3 league games, one against a team that you told this forum " Shrewsbury have a very weak forward line, which should be good news for our defence". What an even more ridiculous statement. So you can look in your newspaper, see the scores and that tells the full story does it? Madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 Is Tony Dinning available ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 What an even more ridiculous statement. So you can look in your newspaper, see the scores and that tells the full story does it? Madness. Really and you based your Shrewsbury opinion on what?, I can look at the past 3 league games and see that we have conceded 7 goals, that dosen't look to me like an improving defence does it?, Madness? no reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted September 24, 2013 Report Share Posted September 24, 2013 I'd give O'Driscoll a bit of leeway over the centre back position as technically he has Fontaine to fill that position. It's just unfortunate that he's been unable to play it effectively this season. City are operating under restrictions now that may mean the loan market has to be used to provide cover / experience. That excuse doesn't wash for the managers who've gone before, though. Signings have been largely poorly thought out since Coppell took over. Signings at City have had some right plodders right back as far as Wilsons day. As for Fontaine, the sooner he is shitcanned the better City will be. Let him **** up Yeoviles chances permanently. He has been part of the problem for a season and a half at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Really and you based your Shrewsbury opinion on what?, I can look at the past 3 league games and see that we have conceded 7 goals, that dosen't look to me like an improving defence does it?, Madness? no reality. It isn't reality though is it because you haven't watched the game in its entirety! You are putting across a lazy argument. Say for arguments sake we lose to a team 3-0 and their goals are all penalties conceded by our midfielders, is that still the defence's fault? And I was right about Shrews forward line, aside from their goal they created next to **** all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 It isn't reality though is it because you haven't watched the game in its entirety! You are putting across a lazy argument. Say for arguments sake we lose to a team 3-0 and their goals are all penalties conceded by our midfielders, is that still the defence's fault? And I was right about Shrews forward line, aside from their goal they created next to **** all. Point 1. I have. Point 2. Has that fantasy happened?. Point 3. Yes, but based on what?, certainly not first hand knowledge. We agree that the goals we conceded against Swindon were awful, have a good look at the 3 Peterborough goals, yes great finishing for 2 of them and a goalkeeping mistake for another, but look at the build up play for every goal and including the penalty and show me a worthwhile tackle, look at the slack marking, in many ways the defending leading up to the penalty was the worst it was appalling, all 3 goals were preventable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 What a ridiculous statement, I don't need to be there to see we have conceded 7 goals in the last 3 league games, one against a team that you told this forum " Shrewsbury have a very weak forward line, which should be good news for our defence". Shrewsbury did/do have a weak forward line - that doesn't mean that they are never going to score goals! Apart from one hugely uncarachteristic balls up from Shorey, they probably wouldn't have scored, as the fact that being their only goal kind of proves...!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Shrewsbury did/do have a weak forward line - that doesn't mean that they are never going to score goals! Apart from one hugely uncarachteristic balls up from Shorey, they probably wouldn't have scored, as the fact that being their only goal kind of proves...!" You are totally missing the point which is, I was accused of basing my 'defence not improving' argument on just reading newspapers (even though evidence to the contrary is on player and all over youtube for all to see) the remark about Shrewsbury was asking where that evidence came from?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazareth Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Dan this lack of experience is a misnoma vs Swindon Line up from another thread Frank Fielding 177 apps inc 76 for Derby in the Champs Derrick Williams 5 inc 1 for Aston Villa Aden Flint 76+ inc 60+ for Swindon James O'Connor 329 inc circa 120 for Donny in the Champs and around the same for Bournemouth/Donny in this league Brendan Moloney 81 inc c 42 for Forest Scott Wagstaff 130+ inc 100ish for Charlton at this level Marlon Pack 160ish inc 120ish for Cheltenham at L2 Nickey Shorey 450 ish including multiple prem appearances for Reading, West Brom, Villa and Fulham Marvin Elliot c 350 inc 144 for Milwalll inc 4 seasons in Champs and FA CUP Final. Sam Baldock 160ish inc 100 for MK Dons at this level JET 115 ish including around 100ish in the champs for Ipswich, Cardiff, Donny and Blackpool I agree with Red Robin that we have been over using loans to fill gaps rather than actively recruit. Now we have actively recruited, though we've let 2 go out on loan (Wilson and Fontaine) in a position we were short in and needed a loan (O'Connor) to get cover for. Bizarre doesnt cover it Sorry but to me only Elliott, Shorey and O'Connor really represent true experience - even 160 games is not even 4 full seasons. You quote Flint but he hasn't even played two full seasons' worth of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 25, 2013 Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 Bizarre way of looking at it. Each start, means that a player gains experience of playing for the respective first team in whichever league they play, they can grow from that and ease into roles. If I had to do the same or similar thing, after 80 or so tries doing the same thing I'd consider myself experienced at it because I'd done it that often. Sure there is always chance to learn and grow irrespective, but writing off mass swathes of games as you've done is a really weird way of looking at stuff. I agree, After spending all your teenage life and then part of your adult life training remoreslesly for a position in the team, once you have a seasons worth of experience under your belt at first team level, that should be enough. Clearly there is always room for improvement, but experience wise, I would suggest that is plenty. You still play the position, something you should have been doing from a early age, yes the opposition maybe different, but the role is still the same. So for me I think we can look a Reid and Williams as inexperienced, all the others, well pretty expereinced, After all expereince doesn't enable you to mark a far better player than you well, you need that quality in the first place to be able to do that. Quality and Experience are two completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted September 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2013 I agree, After spending all your teenage life and then part of your adult life training remoreslesly for a position in the team, once you have a seasons worth of experience under your belt at first team level, that should be enough. Clearly there is always room for improvement, but experience wise, I would suggest that is plenty. You still play the position, something you should have been doing from a early age, yes the opposition maybe different, but the role is still the same. So for me I think we can look a Reid and Williams as inexperienced, all the others, well pretty expereinced, After all expereince doesn't enable you to mark a far better player than you well, you need that quality in the first place to be able to do that. Quality and Experience are two completely different things. Absolutely it's just more and more excuse making, you only have to look at England's recent squads to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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