Review: 10 Games In Thread

[Guest]

FIRST 10 GAMES last season saw us with WIN 3, D2, L5 and 11pts; when I must say I believe we had better players, despite their persistant abuse by many.

Taking it further we had Won 7, D6; L20 and 27points; those amounts of wins this season would be dreamland for Sods boys yet the manager back then was deemed not good enough and shown the door ??? (transition was not mentioned)

Mcwinnless; 63 games 17wins; sacked.

Odreary so far; 34 games, 8wins (most with Mcwinnless`s players)

[glynriley]

Well how many points do we reckon SO'D needs from these 10 games, or are the board absolutely determined to stick with him whatever?

If City only manage your measly 5 points, giving a total of 11 points from 20 games in mid December, he'd surely be for the chop.

I can't help but feel we're going to do much better in these forthcoming 10 than the previous 10 but even if City more than double the total from the first 10 and get my 14 ( giving 20 from 20 games) you'd think he'd still only be hanging on by his fingertips, at best.

Would the improvement be enough, or would the board decide it's too little, too late, and that drastic action was imperative to preserve City's status?

I think being on 20 points after 20 games will probably be enough to keep him here. Anything less than averaging a point per game and he has to be looking over his shoulder. Never mind all those "sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward" types, relegation would cripple this football club.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

What was SOD asked to do by those who appointed him, what targets/ goals were agreed? If the likelihood of a slow start this season was anticipated, and we're still within those lowered expectations, will the board/ SL have the backbone to stick with SOD?

What will they look at? The way we are playing now, or results?

What has "crippled" this club more over the years, a relegation, or the policy (or total lack of a coherent policy) of chop and change?

Have not Peterborough demonstrated that a relegation need not be "crippling" if other things are in place? They held onto their manager, too.

I think an agreement was reached to not resist the all-but-inevitable last season, as slashing expenses and including youth in the first team would be do-able in League One, not so easy in the Champ.

The playing style is slowly emerging, this was part of the deal, I think? A recognisable, playing identity. Youngsters are beicoming a key part of the side, including two local lads. That is SOD doing his bit. The board's bit is to show some spine, hold their nerve. They seem to be doing this by being awol most of the time!

The results were always going to be lagging behind a bit (he says, with hindsight! Perhaps not this much) and SOD would have stressed that as part of the deal. That's why he came here. That was them "buying" into his thing. Do they honour this, or stab him in the whatever, as we remain near the drop (if it can be called that before Halloween. Mind, there's mincers in the supermarkets already).

Do the board believe in the idea that a coach, or manager, truly does need "time." Not 21st century "time" ie, months, but old-school time, ie, months and months, and months. Even now.

We will find out.

Or we may start winning game after game. SOD for manager of the month (he'll have to smile for the pictures) October/ November? April? May? (June/ July? as the Post include this in months-since-last-win).

Perhaps the lack of a boardroom vote of confidence suggests 'no panic' up there?

Sacking coaches/ managers has not worked, folks. "Worked" is judging things over longer term, too. Yes, we are fifth from bottom, but what was he asked to do, and of that, what can we see that is coming together?

[glynriley]

What was SOD asked to do by those who appointed him, what targets/ goals were agreed? If the likelihood of a slow start this season was anticipated, and we're still within those lowered expectations, will the board/ SL have the backbone to stick with SOD?

What will they look at? The way we are playing now, or results?

What has "crippled" this club more over the years, a relegation, or the policy (or total lack of a coherent policy) of chop and change?

Have not Peterborough demonstrated that a relegation need not be "crippling" if other things are in place? They held onto their manager, too.

I think an agreement was reached to not resist the all-but-inevitable last season, as slashing expenses and including youth in the first team would be do-able in League One, not so easy in the Champ.

The playing style is slowly emerging, this was part of the deal, I think? A recognisable, playing identity. Youngsters are beicoming a key part of the side, including two local lads. That is SOD doing his bit. The board's bit is to show some spine, hold their nerve. They seem to be doing this by being awol most of the time!

The results were always going to be lagging behind a bit (he says, with hindsight! Perhaps not this much) and SOD would have stressed that as part of the deal. That's why he came here. That was them "buying" into his thing. Do they honour this, or stab him in the whatever, as we remain near the drop (if it can be called that before Halloween. Mind, there's mincers in the supermarkets already).

Do the board believe in the idea that a coach, or manager, truly does need "time." Not 21st century "time" ie, months, but old-school time, ie, months and months, and months. Even now.

We will find out.

Or we may start winning game after game. SOD for manager of the month (he'll have to smile for the pictures) October/ November? April? May? (June/ July? as the Post include this in months-since-last-win).

Perhaps the lack of a boardroom vote of confidence suggests 'no panic' up there?

Sacking coaches/ managers has not worked, folks. "Worked" is judging things over longer term, too. Yes, we are fifth from bottom, but what was he asked to do, and of that, what can we see that is coming together?

You've been there and done it Les, just like I have. I can remember being in the 4th division before and it's not something I'm keen to go through again.

The Peterborough comparison doesn't really work, they haven't just been relegated to the bottom division. I agree that someone (SOD?) needs to be given time to finally sort the playing side and the infrastructure, BUT, we can't just blindly follow someone while they lead us off the edge of a cliff.

6 points from 10 games is a poor return with the squad we have, anything less than 14 points from the next 10 will leave us staring down the barrel of a relegation fight.

Just out of interest Les, how many points do you think we'll get from the next 10 games??

6 at home

Crawley, Brentford, Oldham, Sheff Utd, Leyton Orient & Rotherham

4 away

Crewe, Carlisle, Tranmere & Preston.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Glyn, agreed. "Blindly" following someone is foolish. That's why I'm trying to look beyond the black and white, ie, results (while we can, it is October; that might change, say February) and ask what he has been asked to do, the broader picture. And see how he is measuring up against that. Was the deal, 'be in the top 6/10/ half by October/ Christmas/ Easter?' Or was it, 'a clear, identifiable playing philosophy, bedding in of academy youth, signings within new, restricted guidelines, then we'll look at results/ league position. Oh, plus a rousing cup win over hapless rivals, please'? If the board have got the gumption, it matters less that the fans, or some, are getting twitchy. BECAUSE PANDERING TO SUPPORTER IMPATIENCE HAS NOT WORKED. Sorry, not shouting at you, could do with the ITALICS, where is it? We are embarking on something novel, different, to see (see) if this works any better than the last 30 years of no coherent policy. If we have been "blind" I would suggest it has been in following the hope that chopping and changing head coach gets (clubs like ours) anywhere.

SOD is no fool, he is not a Tinnion or a Millen (novice) or a McInnes (bit more than a novice, but not much more), those, I would say, were "blind" managerial lucky dips.

It is not nice being down the bottom. But the addiction to calling for the coach's head is just that: an addiction. A habit that does us no good. If a manager is demonstrably not fit for purpose (Tinnion, Millen, etc) then something needs to happen. We have gone for a guy with experience (how many jobs?l) and yet relatively young, ie years in the tank still, some success, well respected, and he wants to be here (Coppell). He is here, not to get us in the Premiership, but to start something off. How is he doing with that? And what comes first in judging that? What do we need as a club first of all? Results and possibly short term solutions, or something else? What has he been asked to do and how is he measuring up against that?

Anyway, sorry to go on. Now, to answer your question: how many points? No idea, predicting what WILL happen is a mug's game; too much emphasis on results! My gut feeling is: we'll continue to improve in maintaining possession and at some point lady luck will come our way. I reckon more points in the next ten than 6. Three or four wins, I'd guess at. Four wins, three draws, how many points is that? Maybe three wins, four draws, how's that? One or the other.

What must happen, though, is we got to deal with our myopic addiction to agitating for managerial change. IMHO. Time for a cuppa. Cheers!

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Yes, definitely. Next 10 games, I'm going for 3-4-3, with no one "in the hole." And no winners, sorry, 3 wingers. Who reads this sh

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

I don't believe in looking at who we are playing over the next ten games, their form, etc, I believe in looking at what we are doing, what we are capable of, what we can expect from this group of players. Brentford? Crawley? Tranmere? Irrelevant. What can we do when we have the ball; when they have the ball?

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Sounding like the head coach now! Have I "bought into" him too much? The next 10 games might answer that.

Can I change to a 2-5-3, with a dominant midfield, breaking at pace but still not winning enough due to unfortunate, individual errors? No, stick with 3-4-3, 3 wins, 4 draws. U Reds!

[glynriley]

Glyn, agreed. "Blindly" following someone is foolish. That's why I'm trying to look beyond the black and white, ie, results (while we can, it is October; that might change, say February) and ask what he has been asked to do, the broader picture. And see how he is measuring up against that. Was the deal, 'be in the top 6/10/ half by October/ Christmas/ Easter?' Or was it, 'a clear, identifiable playing philosophy, bedding in of academy youth, signings within new, restricted guidelines, then we'll look at results/ league position. Oh, plus a rousing cup win over hapless rivals, please'? If the board have got the gumption, it matters less that the fans, or some, are getting twitchy. BECAUSE PANDERING TO SUPPORTER IMPATIENCE HAS NOT WORKED. Sorry, not shouting at you, could do with the ITALICS, where is it? We are embarking on something novel, different, to see (see) if this works any better than the last 30 years of no coherent policy. If we have been "blind" I would suggest it has been in following the hope that chopping and changing head coach gets (clubs like ours) anywhere.

SOD is no fool, he is not a Tinnion or a Millen (novice) or a McInnes (bit more than a novice, but not much more), those, I would say, were "blind" managerial lucky dips.

It is not nice being down the bottom. But the addiction to calling for the coach's head is just that: an addiction. A habit that does us no good. If a manager is demonstrably not fit for purpose (Tinnion, Millen, etc) then something needs to happen. We have gone for a guy with experience (how many jobs?l) and yet relatively young, ie years in the tank still, some success, well respected, and he wants to be here (Coppell). He is here, not to get us in the Premier League, but to start something off. How is he doing with that? And what comes first in judging that? What do we need as a club first of all? Results and possibly short term solutions, or something else? What has he been asked to do and how is he measuring up against that?

Anyway, sorry to go on. Now, to answer your question: how many points? No idea, predicting what WILL happen is a mug's game; too much emphasis on results! My gut feeling is: we'll continue to improve in maintaining possession and at some point lady luck will come our way. I reckon more points in the next ten than 6. Three or four wins, I'd guess at. Four wins, three draws, how many points is that? Maybe three wins, four draws, how's that? One or the other.

What must happen, though, is we got to deal with our myopic addiction to agitating for managerial change. IMHO. Time for a cuppa. Cheers!

Just for the record, I'm not calling for him to go, yet. I am though, pretty worried about where this season is headed. Nobody is predicting more than 14 to 16 points from the next 10 games, that will leave us on or around 20 points from 20 games, which in turn will leave us facing entering the new year in a relegation battle. Now, with a team full of youngsters, that doesn't augur well to me. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing, but the thought of watching 4th tier football again, no matter how much of a plan we have in place, feels me with dread.

[herman]

Just for the record, I'm not calling for him to go, yet. I am though, pretty worried about where this season is headed. Nobody is predicting more than 14 to 16 points from the next 10 games, that will leave us on or around 20 points from 20 games, which in turn will leave us facing entering the new year in a relegation battle. Now, with a team full of youngsters, that doesn't augur well to me. Maybe I'm worrying for nothing, but the thought of watching 4th tier football again, no matter how much of a plan we have in place, feels me with dread.

good job thats a total myth, then. with the immense experience of shorey, harewood, elliott and the likes in the squad alongside a number of players like baldock, maloney, cunningham who have all racked up several seasons of experience, we have more than enough experience in the tank. bryan and reid, both in their 20s, are not "kids" and williams is probably the only regular starter who you could call inexperienced

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Sorry, I know you have been more restrained than some, yes, I've had me twitchy moments, too. Peterborough was one! Not immune to panic, myself. I had those "some" in mind (think we know who they are, although, to be fair to them, no wins in 20 whatever wins demands some questions, and answers) when referring to the habit of wanting someone different in the dugout. Actually, how about a return to managers/ head coaches sittting down, put your notebook away, remove the 'technical area' and shut up.

Do we have a capable head coach, with something in his cv to demonstrate this, or do we have a green,novice/ old lag,spent force?

I believe O'D is capable and competent at this line of work. So far, the results suggest otherwise. But are there any other indicators that suggest better things might be near at hand?

I'll keep saying it, chopping and changing managers has not worked well enough for us. What do we want the next manager/ head coach of Bristol City to see happening at Ashton Gate right now? - it might influence whether we get another dud, or someone who might make something worthwhile happen here.

[glynriley]

good job thats a total myth, then. with the immense experience of shorey, harewood, elliott and the likes in the squad alongside a number of players like baldock, maloney, cunningham who have all racked up several seasons of experience, we have more than enough experience in the tank. bryan and reid, both in their 20s, are not "kids" and williams is probably the only regular starter who you could call inexperienced

Can I flag up this reply when everyone is calling for patience, because we have a young squad?

There are plenty on here championing that very point when we fail to win. They're a young side, they're inexperienced, they're learning their trade.

Look, nobody, certainly not me, was expecting miracles this season. Mid table obscurity would, and will, do me nicely. But a run of 6 points from 10 games only has to be replicated once more this season, and we will be bang in trouble.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

good job thats a total myth, then. with the immense experience of shorey, harewood, elliott and the likes in the squad alongside a number of players like baldock, maloney, cunningham who have all racked up several seasons of experience, we have more than enough experience in the tank. bryan and reid, both in their 20s, are not "kids" and williams is probably the only regular starter who you could call inexperienced

Ok, perhaps experience is not the issue. Perhaps it's something else. It might be SOD, it might be. Or, instead of inexperience, perhaps it is bringing together a new group of people, as they were in August, and getting them into a successful unit. I don't know.

There will be a reason/ or reasons why we are not winning league games, why players are making key errors still, why things have not taken off yet. It might be a mixture of things. Yes, SOD has got some things wrong. But is he capable of putting this right? Or is the tried and tested measure of changing manager (with all the success that has brought us) a safer bet?

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Can I flag up this reply when everyone is calling for patience, because we have a young squad?

There are plenty on here championing that very point when we fail to win. They're a young side, they're inexperienced, they're learning their trade.

Look, nobody, certainly not me, was expecting miracles this season. Mid table obscurity would, and will, do me nicely. But a run of 6 points from 10 games only has to be replicated once more this season, and we will be bang in trouble.

That's why we got some wins coming, Glyn, real soon! I think...

Of course, injuries might happen. An unlucky red card could scupper a likely home win. A stupid ref, a flu outbreak, the players falling out over a bunga-bunga party at Waggy's gaff, Lansdown might ask for his £40m back, who knows what is going to happen.

I just don't see managerial revolving door doing anything for us, not beyond what we have had for 33 years.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

If you always do what you've always done, don't be surprised if you continue to get...etc...blah, blah

[glynriley]

That's why we got some wins coming, Glyn, real soon! I think...

Of course, injuries might happen. An unlucky red card could scupper a likely home win. A stupid ref, a flu outbreak, the players falling out over a bunga-bunga party at Waggy's gaff, Lansdown might ask for his £40m back, who knows what is going to happen.

I just don't see managerial revolving door doing anything for us, not beyond what we have had for 33 years.

Forget managerial changes for a minute, I'm prepared to give SOD time to sort it out. I've already said I don't want him out, yet.

What worries me is the points we are accruing.

As I've said, if we have another 10 game spell of picking up only 6 or so points, we are in trouble. 48 points was not enough to keep Scunny up last season, we need 42 points to match that from 36 games.

Doesn't sound a lot, but lets say we get the 13 points you've got us down for in the next 10, that leaves us on 19 points from 20 games. We're then looking for 30+ points to stay up and that would look like a big ask to me.

Still, as i say, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Forget managerial changes for a minute, I'm prepared to give SOD time to sort it out. I've already said I don't want him out, yet.

What worries me is the points we are accruing.

As I've said, if we have another 10 game spell of picking up only 6 or so points, we are in trouble. 48 points was not enough to keep Scunny up last season, we need 42 points to match that from 36 games.

Doesn't sound a lot, but lets say we get the 13 points you've got us down for in the next 10, that leaves us on 19 points from 20 games. We're then looking for 30+ points to stay up and that would look like a big ask to me.

Still, as i say, I'm probably worrying about nothing.

You're not worrying about nothing. If we don't win some games, soon, we're going to have a lot to do after Christmas. And with a young/ inexperienced/ ish(allowing for myths and differing opinions on that) group. And then relegation would require resisting rather more firmly than last season. It is fair to point this out, no question. But what can we do but worry? And what does that achieve? We can stay away/ barrack the players/ hound the head coach out. Like we have done for so long.

Looking at results is the short term view. We might go down. We might not have found our level yet, from where this club needs to sink, before it can begin to fly again. The performances at Southampton (second half) and Port Vale, plus other performance indicators v. Shrews and Us, suggest with that first win, we may have already reached that low point. That level being where we can be competitive with the youth we have and can bring through, and the new signings we can afford. If it happened to be dropping another level, then we can embrace that, or think about it as a nuclear catastrophe, if we want.

If we get certain fundamentals in place and working, once we have momentum, why should we not skip through a couple of divisions. Look at our record following promotion seasons, post Ward 97, aside. Get the basics, the foundations, in place, then you can fly. We've not had that.

What about Swansea, someone will say? Perhaps they dropped to the rock bottom of their level? And maybe facing a drop out the fourth and the shister owner they had then was sufficient pain and reality for fans there to accept the changes required, not superficial, proper, painful change.

Who expected drastic change to run tickety-boo? Not going at you here, Glyn, just rambling now.

But, you're not daft to worry. You're daft to think it'll do any good, though! (So says a non-worrier!)

[The Kaiser]

I have heard all the stuff about re-building etc.

But you look at that squad and that 11 that take the pitch for us and our performance in results is utterly piss-poor.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

I have heard all the stuff about re-building etc.

But you look at that squad and that 11 that take the pitch for us and our performance in results is utterly piss-poor.

I'm not so sure we've got to re-building yet. We're not done with dismantling yet, you know, the bit where the big crain with the iron ball smashes everything to the ground: the expectations of fans/ players/ owners, the highly paid failures yet to move on, the fear and habitual tendency to boot the ball when you're being asked to think and attempt something not everyone has asked you to do before, the focus on what you can't control rather than what you can, the stink of stupid, ingrained, unsuccessful habits . The dismantling is still happening, then we got to sweep up. But, stick around, if we get to re-building, it might be worth a look

[The Kaiser]

How are we getting on with the sweeping?

Or haven't we bought the big brushes yet?

[Alex_BCFC]

I have heard all the stuff about re-building etc.

But you look at that squad and that 11 that take the pitch for us and our performance in results is utterly piss-poor.

I honestly believe we are getting there. Apart from Peterborough, all our recent performances have been at least reasonable if not dominant.

I've said for quite a few games though, until we stop letting in that soft goal, we are making it hard for ourselves.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

How are we getting on with the sweeping?

Or haven't we bought the big brushes yet?

The results might help you out in answering that. The idea seems to be, let's not sweep the problems under the carpet. Because this has been done before, over and over, and it has not worked. Other than being a fix, a relief for those addicted to short term gain. It seems to be a truth that many people are not yet ready to hear

[The Kaiser]

I honestly believe we are getting there. Apart from Peterborough, all our recent performances have been at least reasonable if not dominant.

I've said for quite a few games though, until we stop letting in that soft goal, we are making it hard for ourselves.

Everyone lets in soft goals now and again (though admittedly we are shite at closing down and picking up runners as a game goes on).

The issue I see it is that we seem to never have a 2 goal cushion to allow ourselves the customary downs-league standard backpass like we saw on saturday.

We dominated yet still were only 0-1 up!

[Major Isewater]

How are we getting on with the sweeping?

Or haven't we bought the big brushes yet?

Big brushes don't just grow on trees.Everyone wants a big brush but it must one that improves the brushes we have here already.

We need a quality brush with a good head we are ,after all ,Bristle City.

[Aizoon]

[The Kaiser]

Big brushes don't just grow on trees.Everyone wants a big brush but it must one that improves the brushes we have here already.

We need a quality brush with a good head we are ,after all ,Bristle City.

This clearly deserves some kind of suspension......

[glynriley]

How about the next 10. Assuming the Crawley game is arranged to be played in this period we have 6 at home

 

Crawley, Brentford, Oldham, Sheff Utd, Leyton Orient & Rotherham

 

And 4 away

 

Crewe, Carlisle, Tranmere & Preston.

 

How many points does everyone think we'll get from that little lot. I'll go 15.

 

Crawley game now confirmed for November 5th.

 

6 of the next 10 at home. Time to start climbing the table.

 

COYR.

 

[bcfctim]

These next 7 games Crewe (A), Brentford (H), Carlisle (A), Oldham (H), Crawley (H), Tranmere (A) and Sheff Utd (H) - that's as good a run of games as we'll have all season.

Really good chance to build up some confidence and get 4 maybe more wins out of that lot, and then we'll be in a much better position.

[Nogbad the Bad]

 

If the results are THAT bad - not winning any of our next six home games - it's hard to see SO'D surviving however much goodwill he has.

 

I still don't think it'll come to that. Let's have a look.

 

Crewe(A) WIN   

Brentford (H) Draw

Carlisle(A) Draw

Crawley(H) Draw

Oldham(H) Win

Tranmere(A) Win

Sheff.Utd(H) Draw

Preston(A)Defeat

Orient(H) Defeat

Rotherham(H)Draw

 

Oh dear,14 points out of 30, and only 1 home win in 6. And that includes a 7 game unbeaten run! Was somehow confident it would be more than that over 10 games but that's how it looks to me at the moment. Prospects don't look good at all.

 

Oh well, definitely had City down for that first win at Crewe. No logic, just instinct and the law of averages.

 

Down to a probable 11 points out of 30 by my reckoning.

 

Hopefully we can somehow get what I would view as a very surprising 3 points tomorrow.    

 

Having said that Brentford's form has dipped, losing 2 out of the last 3, so just maybe we're playing them at a good time....    

[The Kaiser]

These next 7 games Crewe (A), Brentford (H), Carlisle (A), Oldham (H), Crawley (H), Tranmere (A) and Sheff Utd (H) - that's as good a run of games as we'll have all season.

Really good chance to build up some confidence and get 4 maybe more wins out of that lot, and then we'll be in a much better position.

 

So there's the first one out of the way.

 

How did we do?

Well 1 shot on target. Played with literally 10 men thanks to the big fella just wandering around, Baldock must have touched it 5 times at best, the defence whilst resolute than before now just head it straight forward in vain hope and we made a very ordinary Crewe side look like they should win by 3 goals.

 

All aboard for the home game to Brentford.