Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Saturday got me thinking about natural goalscorers. Poor old Sammy firing off blanks and the lovely Mr Hughes scoring with his only touch.One is a natural goalscorer the other is ,like so many attacking players, an honest Pro who has to really work at it. Lineker,Shearer,Bas Savage,Henry,Rush and company are in the band of sélect players who you would put your mortgage on scoring. For City i can only think of Goater,superBob,Thorpe and Brooker ( sadly more like "Broker " ) as naturals. Who else is there that i've missed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Bas savage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 John Galley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Bas savage Just seeing who was awake.Well spotted that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 John Atyeo, Paul Cheeseley, Andy Cole Bas Savage? Shurely shome mishtake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Andy Cole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Bas savage is an icon, he created the 'dive' at home to Yeovil, through on goal, he must have felt some wind on his back which caused him to hit the deck, that took guts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Bas savage is an icon, he created the 'dive' at home to Yeovil, through on goal, he must have felt some wind on his back which caused him to hit the deck, that took guts! IMO the Invisible Man should have had a straight red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red white and red Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 IMO the Invisible Man should have had a straight red Never!, savage was clearly taken from behind by the last man... 30 yards away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Never!, savage was clearly taken from behind by the last man... 30 yards away! Curse that Green Lantern and his super powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Liam Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Saturday got me thinking about natural goalscorers. Poor old Sammy firing off blanks and the lovely Mr Hughes scoring with his only touch.One is a natural goalscorer the other is ,like so many attacking players, an honest Pro who has to really work at it. Lineker,Shearer,Bas Savage,Henry,Rush and company are in the band of sélect players who you would put your mortgage on scoring. For City i can only think of Goater,superBob,Thorpe and Brooker ( sadly more like "Broker " ) as naturals. Who else is there that i've missed out? I've never quite understood this concept of a 'natural goalscorer'. It just seems to be a different way of describing someone who is very good, as presumably there is no suggestion that a talent for goalscoring is god-given. I don't believe there is any such thing: just that some strikers are better than others. I think any goalscorer worth their salary, including Baldock, would have scored from a underhit backpass leaving them one on one with the goalkeeper. I suspect that Baldock is under a lot of pressure to deliver at the moment, and that must make him nervous about every goalscoring opportunity. Even Bob Taylor went to pieces when he lost his confidence in 1991... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I've never quite understood this concept of a 'natural goalscorer'. It just seems to be a different way of describing someone who is very good, as presumably there is no suggestion that a talent for goalscoring is god-given. I don't believe there is any such thing: just that some strikers are better than others. I think any goalscorer worth their salary, including Baldock, would have scored from a underhit backpass leaving them one on one with the goalkeeper. I suspect that Baldock is under a lot of pressure to deliver at the moment, and that must make him nervous about every goalscoring opportunity. Even Bob Taylor went to pieces when he lost his confidence in 1991... I think that it's firstly the capacity to remain cool when in a goalscoring position.Messi,Ronaldo etc seem to have all the time in the world when in the penalty area and calmly slot home.The vast majority seem to have a rush of blood to the head and panic thus losing the advantage. So you could say that someone who keeps their composure under pressure is at a "natural" advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Brian Clark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Brian Clark. Hear hear. In the shadow of Atyeo sadly for him. My memory of him is as a big, powerful guy who would scare modern defenders to death. Had a good record with us and Cardiff. In fact I saw him play for Cardiff against Real Madrid; think he may have scored the only goal of the game but my memory is not what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I've never quite understood this concept of a 'natural goalscorer'. It just seems to be a different way of describing someone who is very good, as presumably there is no suggestion that a talent for goalscoring is god-given. I don't believe there is any such thing: just that some strikers are better than others. I think any goalscorer worth their salary, including Baldock, would have scored from a underhit backpass leaving them one on one with the goalkeeper. I suspect that Baldock is under a lot of pressure to deliver at the moment, and that must make him nervous about every goalscoring opportunity. Even Bob Taylor went to pieces when he lost his confidence in 1991... It makes absolute sense. A natural goalscorer is someone with the characteristics in their game that are conducive to goal-scoring. As things like composure are innate and to a degree impossible to teach, it's a fair adage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Pitman was the last one. Some players just know where the goal is. He could score with his back to goal and from ridiculous angles. Some things you can teach but he had a natural talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 It makes absolute sense. A natural goalscorer is someone with the characteristics in their game that are conducive to goal-scoring. As things like composure are innate and to a degree impossible to teach, it's a fair adage. So a natural goalscorer is someone who is a better striker than a non-natural goalscorer? That was rather my point. Researchers have suggested that to be brilliant at anything requires 10,000 hours of practice, which implies that anyone can be a good goalscorer if they practice hard enough. Interesting point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 psychology plays a key part in many professional players careers and in many other sports too. In the case of Baldock, it is obviously confidence in front of goal that the man is lacking. everything psychological has an effect on physiological outcomes. You get anxious/nervous, you sweat for example. With baldock, the lack of confidence will lead to him doubting his ability in certain situations and overthinking a process. That second thought would provide a delayed reaction of messages sent from the brain to the muscle fibres meaning that the physical outcome (in most cases the shot on goal) is the wrong shot selection or just too late. All of that aside, if baldock's confidence improves, it is likely that his goal scoring tally and his performances will improve. Those chances he currently just doesnt get on the end of, will be the chances he finishes. Question is, how can we improve his confidence? fan appreciation? playing to his strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charisma_cider Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 All this chat about "natural goalscorers" is distracting from the fact the OP has made a completely nonsense comparison. Lee Hughes took a goal that was practically gifted to him on a plate. In what way does that qualify him as a 'natural goalscorer' Diego Forlan couldn't hit a barn door at Manure, but then went on to win the European Golden Boot. So did he suddenly become a natural goalscorer in Spain? No, its just another phrase in the long list of football rhetoric. Strikers thrive on confidence. Writing Baldock off over a bad patch (a very modest one considering he still has goals to his name) is ridiculous when supporting the lad is whats needed more than anything. He could still score 7 or 27 goals this season, the fact is that nobody could concretely call it either way. But of course this is the same forum that concluded that Lambert was too fat and past it for City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZoneJim Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 psychology plays a key part in many professional players careers and in many other sports too. In the case of Baldock, it is obviously confidence in front of goal that the man is lacking. everything psychological has an effect on physiological outcomes. You get anxious/nervous, you sweat for example. With baldock, the lack of confidence will lead to him doubting his ability in certain situations and overthinking a process. That second thought would provide a delayed reaction of messages sent from the brain to the muscle fibres meaning that the physical outcome (in most cases the shot on goal) is the wrong shot selection or just too late. All of that aside, if baldock's confidence improves, it is likely that his goal scoring tally and his performances will improve. Those chances he currently just doesnt get on the end of, will be the chances he finishes. Question is, how can we improve his confidence? fan appreciation? playing to his strengths? I don't think confidence has got anything to do with it with Baldock, his best stats of 14 in a season indicates he's just not, and never has been, the goalscorer his transfer fees suggest he is. It's not his fault two clubs have been prepared to part with mental cash for him but it does put him on a pedestal his stats suggest he doesn't warrant. It's his execution that's the problem not his confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 If you see my explanation above, it's a bit more complex than just saying he lacks confidence. It backs up why and how lack of confidence would affect him. Price tag aside, as that means nothing, he is now in a team that can provide him with the opportunity to score plenty of goals. With the 'confidence' he will score most of those chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZoneJim Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 If you see my explanation above, it's a bit more complex than just saying he lacks confidence. It backs up why and how lack of confidence would affect him. Price tag aside, as that means nothing, he is now in a team that can provide him with the opportunity to score plenty of goals. With the 'confidence' he will score most of those chances. Get what you're saying but still don't think it's anything to do with confidence, he's never scored as many goals as £1m+ striker should. His transfer fees aren't his fault but he can't not of been confident every season he's played which suggests that may be he just isn't as good as his reputation suggests. All his transfer fees have done is skew the view of how good he should be, when perhaps he simply ain't there yet. He can still be a goalscoring asset no doubt but confidence don't come into it so far. Any goalscorer worth their salt would have put away one of the one-on-ones he had at 0-0 at Coventry. Execution not confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 So a natural goalscorer is someone who is a better striker than a non-natural goalscorer? That was rather my point. Researchers have suggested that to be brilliant at anything requires 10,000 hours of practice, which implies that anyone can be a good goalscorer if they practice hard enough. Interesting point though. I could practice basketball for 10,000 hours and still be shite.Why ?because i am naturally a short arse which would inhibit my capacity to be good. The experts are right that with practice and having certain innate qualitys the potentiel can be exploited but not without these gifts from mother nature .The very best are "blessed" with the necessary to ,like a Budgie without a beak,succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVMal Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Leroy Lita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I could practice basketball for 10,000 hours and still be shite.Why ?because i am naturally a short arse which would inhibit my capacity to be good. The experts are right that with practice and having certain innate qualitys the potentiel can be exploited but not without these gifts from mother nature .The very best are "blessed" with the necessary to ,like a Budgie without a beak,succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 All this chat about "natural goalscorers" is distracting from the fact the OP has made a completely nonsense comparison. Lee Hughes took a goal that was practically gifted to him on a plate. In what way does that qualify him as a 'natural goalscorer' Diego Forlan couldn't hit a barn door at Manure, but then went on to win the European Golden Boot. So did he suddenly become a natural goalscorer in Spain? No, its just another phrase in the long list of football rhetoric. Strikers thrive on confidence. Writing Baldock off over a purple patch (a very modest one considering he still has goals to his name) is ridiculous when supporting the lad is whats needed more than anything. He could still score 7 or 27 goals this season, the fact is that nobody could concretely call it either way. But of course this is the same forum that concluded that Lambert was too fat and past it for City. Lee Hughes has scored more than one goal in his career! I would class him as a ,sorry, natural . I don't believe anyone's writing off Baldock ,just saying that his conversion rate is not brilliant at the moment and him ,being an intelligent and honest bloke would agree i'm sure. Lastly i thought a "purple patch" was when things are going well .The patch we're in at the moment is more brown ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I could practice basketball for 10,000 hours and still be shite.Why ?because i am naturally a short arse which would inhibit my capacity to be good. The experts are right that with practice and having certain innate qualitys the potentiel can be exploited but not without these gifts from mother nature .The very best are "blessed" with the necessary to ,like a Budgie without a beak,succeed. No, the point is that experts say that with sufficient practice, ANYONE can be brilliant. Of course, you would have to have the physical characteristics to succeed in the first place, but anyone can achieve skill with sufficient practice. Mind you, 10,000 hours is not to be sniffed at: that's thirteen hours a week for fifteen years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 No, the point is that experts say that with sufficient practice, ANYONE can be brilliant. Of course, you would have to have the physical characteristics to succeed in the first place, but anyone can achieve skill with sufficient practice. Mind you, 10,000 hours is not to be sniffed at: that's thirteen hours a week for fifteen years... Which experts are these? Do tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 No, the point is that experts say that with sufficient practice, ANYONE can be brilliant. Of course, you would have to have the physical characteristics to succeed in the first place, but anyone can achieve skill with sufficient practice. Mind you, 10,000 hours is not to be sniffed at: that's thirteen hours a week for fifteen years... Well they 'ré just plain wrong.How can you dissociate the mental from the physical.it's impossible. I can learn to ski to a décent level but even with 10,000 hours of training with the very best coaches i am never going to be a "natural" . This discussion is doing a Franz Klammer (going downhill fast ) so i'll bow out. Thanks for your interesting input on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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