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Somebody's Going To Get A Hiding Soon.......


Vincent Vega

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The law of averages is a myth. If you flip a coin 100 times you will not get a distribution of 50 heads and 50 tails because every flip is an independent event and is not influenced by what has happened before. Similarly, every game we play is independent so the fact that we have not won in 20 has no effect on the likelihood of us winning, losing or drawing the next. If you believe in the law of averages your local casino will be delighted to welcome you to the roulette wheel though. :shifty:

jeeeeez...........you must be a barrel of laughs at a party  ;) 

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jeeeeez...........you must be a barrel of laughs at a party  ;) 

Sorry, the truth is often a pretty dull thing. Still, in football especially people tend to live in a fantasy world where something will just turn up. Wear the lucky suit, always put your kit on in the same order, be the last to leave the dressing, blame it all on bad luck. Relying on the alleged law of averages is just another superstition. Better than taking responsibility though. Fortunately I doubt SOD is daft enough to go in for all that stuff.

 

And you'll always find me in the kitchen at parties. :yawn:

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Sorry, the truth is often a pretty dull thing. Still, in football especially people tend to live in a fantasy world where something will just turn up. Wear the lucky suit, always put your kit on in the same order, be the last to leave the dressing, blame it all on bad luck. Relying on the alleged law of averages is just another superstition. Better than taking responsibility though. Fortunately I doubt SOD is daft enough to go in for all that stuff.

And you'll always find me in the kitchen at parties. :yawn:

I think the problem is a lot of people don't really understand the principle. It only really applies to probabilities of measurable outcomes where there is no deviation in the action performed... The more you toss a coin the more likelihood you will get a 50/50 outcome, in a small example howevet the outcome could be almost anything...

As to football, their ate too many variables for averages to apply.

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I think the problem is a lot of people don't really understand the principle. It only really applies to probabilities of measurable outcomes where there is no deviation in the action performed... The more you toss a coin the more likelihood you will get a 50/50 outcome, in a small example howevet the outcome could be almost anything...

As to football, their ate too many variables for averages to apply.

Ah, the Law of Large Numbers. Let's face it this country is more innumerate than it is illiterate so it's not surprising so many people believe in the so called  law of averages. Unfortunately for us the number of games in a season is not a large number. :disapointed2se:

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, we need to do something that we haven't done since the first day of the season, score the first bloody goal in a home game! Brentfords away record won2 drawn2 lost2, nothing to be frightened of and a chance for the players to take out their frustrations on a team who may come withan attitude of taking us for granted.go for it from the start please and don't just turn up at half-time is my request to SoD.

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In my experience this has happened often with City

 

In my early days, when Joe Jordan was early in his first stint with us, we were 10 games without a win, his head was on the block

 

We played Huddersfield at home.  We were 5-0 up in 25 minutes, totally surreal.  Next season we flew up and out of the division.

 

Patience and belief.

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In my experience this has happened often with City

 

In my early days, when Joe Jordan was early in his first stint with us, we were 10 games without a win, his head was on the block

 

We played Huddersfield at home.  We were 5-0 up in 25 minutes, totally surreal.  Next season we flew up and out of the division.

 

Patience and belief.

 

....but Joe Jordan was often on the pitch as player-manager and leading from the front !!!!!!!!

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In my experience this has happened often with City

 

In my early days, when Joe Jordan was early in his first stint with us, we were 10 games without a win, his head was on the block

 

We played Huddersfield at home.  We were 5-0 up in 25 minutes, totally surreal.  Next season we flew up and out of the division.

 

Patience and belief.

Often might be a slight exaggeration........ 20 games is an exceptional run, shame its not 20 wins.

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Just to re-iterate what chinapig is saying, and this is coming from a qualified statistician. The "law of averages" is a buzz word which sometimes get thrown about in the media to describe the outcome of a match. Unfortunately this is a load of rubbish. Even over a very long period of time it won't balance out (you may find some rare examples of it). The outcome of a football match is an impossible thing to predict as there are possibly hundreds of variables which have an influence of an outcome on a match. Many people (including me) have tried the model the outcome of a match taking into account things like home or away, the opposition, form etc. but it's just impossible to accurately achieve. The person that does come up with a system will be very very rich. That's my ten pence worth I don't post very often but it's nice to be able to apply my profession to football.    

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The law of averages is a myth. If you flip a coin 100 times you will not get a distribution of 50 heads and 50 tails because every flip is an independent event and is not influenced by what has happened before. Similarly, every game we play is independent so the fact that we have not won in 20 has no effect on the likelihood of us winning, losing or drawing the next. If you believe in the law of averages your local casino will be delighted to welcome you to the roulette wheel though. :shifty:

 

But they do - take the roulette wheel for example. The winning payout levels are based on 36 possible end results, but 37 slots on the wheel. "In the long run the casino will win" is precisely based on the law of averages....

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Just to re-iterate what chinapig is saying, and this is coming from a qualified statistician. The "law of averages" is a buzz word which sometimes get thrown about in the media to describe the outcome of a match. Unfortunately this is a load of rubbish. Even over a very long period of time it won't balance out (you may find some rare examples of it). The outcome of a football match is an impossible thing to predict as there are possibly hundreds of variables which have an influence of an outcome on a match. Many people (including me) have tried the model the outcome of a match taking into account things like home or away, the opposition, form etc. but it's just impossible to accurately achieve. The person that does come up with a system will be very very rich. That's my ten pence worth I don't post very often but it's nice to be able to apply my profession to football.    

So, if we play Man Utd 10 times, on average, you cannot predict who will win more than the other  :blink: .

Come to that, if we play any other League 1 team .....

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So, if we play Man Utd 10 times, on average, you cannot predict who will win more than the other  :blink: .

Come to that, if we play any other League 1 team .....

 

You can predict that Man U will win 9 times out of ten (or 99 times out of 100, more like). What you can't predict is which will be that  one time when they don't...

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listening to Leroy on the FL Show last night, he commented about our position and that the danger is that the belief will be sucked out of the players the longer we go without a win.

 

A few weeks back, when so many commented on how well we were playing and just not getting the results, I felt reasonably hopeful. My worry now is that the players become resigned to disappointment and almost start to expect it, lose positivity  and that disappointment becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

The performance away at Port Vale wasn't too bad; once in a while, the players turn up and want to play - The players have shown they are capable of playing some really good stuff, when they turn up

 

Still, in football especially people tend to live in a fantasy world where something will just turn up. Wear the lucky suit, always put your kit on in the same order, be the last to leave the dressing, blame it all on bad luck.

 

This is often put down to superstition, but it just develops into a ritual which can merely make a player feel better if he does it - it won't bring fortune but it can help a player focus. It's all about that "Zone" where psycologically you're in a good place & physically you're in a good place there's a good chance you'll perform to your highest level.

 

I get the overall point - using the roullette wheel though

 

You have more chance of spinning the wheel 37 times and getting 37 different numbers than of getting the number 4 every time (Just)

 

The law of averages is used in place of the hope that you won't have such an unfortunate run that you loose every time no matter how much you increase your chances of winning (or decrease your chances of loosing

 

_____________________________

 

I'm sure SOD mentioned the law of averages right at the start of his tenure - saying that the clean sheets thing couldn't be resolved because you will always have last minute penalties and dodgy decisions that you can do nothing about. The linking point being, if you perform well consistently, the law of averages states that you cannot have one of these spoof decisions costing you in every game... quite unfortunate really come to think of it because when we've played well, the tiniest things have cost us. Equally, when the opposition have played badly, they have got lucky (Crewe, Port Vale)

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All i meant by the title was,we have played very well in patches this season, Swindon and the sags for example

where lots of chances are created and with a little more luck could have turned into proper spankings for both the above.

The actual mathematical equations regarding averages are sadly of less interest to me..........  :fear: 

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Crikey, I didn't expect quite such a response! I won't prolong things but thanks for some interesting responses, especially to FOD City. Suffice to say I am no statistician but I have learned a lot from working alongside a few over the years.

 

Anyway, whatever fans may think as long as SOD and the players don't think a win will just happen because we are "due" but actually do something different to make it happen we won't have to have a thread about statistics again for a while. :fingerscrossed:;)

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Crikey, I didn't expect quite such a response! I won't prolong things but thanks for some interesting responses, especially to FOD City. Suffice to say I am no statistician but I have learned a lot from working alongside a few over the years.

 

Anyway, whatever fans may think as long as SOD and the players don't think a win will just happen because we are "due" but actually do something different to make it happen we won't have to have a thread about statistics again for a while. :fingerscrossed:;)

law of averages say's it will only be a matter of time....... :thumbsup: 

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