The Pain!

[Tinmansleftboot]

Despite being a member of OTIB for many years I very rarely post.  However, I feel obliged to stand on my soap box and vent.

 

Prior to moving to Australia five years ago I was a regular at Ashton Gate and it wasn't uncommon to see me standing on away terraces watching City struggle week-in-week-out.

 

Now, I realise some of you will give this post no credence as I don't watch the team play any more but it would take a very short-sighted person to not agree we're struggling with no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

As I touched on earlier, I've seen some pretty desperate City teams over the years but the performance of the current squad beggars belief.

 

I was all for SoD prior to his appointment and have been right behind him until recently.  Last season I gave him the benefit of the doubt as he had, in my opinion, inherited somebody else's team.

 

Months later we find ourselves in the worst league position we've been in for years, on a record run without a win and with a Manager and Chairman who reel out the same age old excuses on a weekly basis.

 

SoD has now built his own team and must now take full responsibility for the dire position we find ourselves in.  In short, he has no excuses.  

 

As I live in Australia the only contact I have with City is the club website and youtube.  I watch SoD interviews with a smile on my face.  I've even started to predict what he's going to say and the excuses he's going to come up with.  Interestingly, you could take any of his interviews after a loss and just re-post it every week.  If the guy is this predictable in front of the cameras how on earth is he with the players.  He just doesn't inspire me.

 

Should the buck stop with SoD?  No, I believe the issues we have run far deeper.  Do we really trust JL with the future of our club? I don't.  Again, he doesn't inspire me.  At least his Dad has some kind of business acumen.

 

I've never been a big fan of the manager merry-go-round but surely SoD has to go.  

 

Who we replace him with is a mystery but surely anyone is better than what we have. 

[Bat Fastard]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

[Talladira Red]

With the exception of I've only been in Oz for 4 years, you have written what I have been trying to articulate in my head since getting to work this morning.

 

Being over here I feel like I'm missing something that everyone is being able to see which makes it all make sense. I wake at some ungodly hour on a Sunday morning and lie in bed hitting refresh on the BBCs website thinking to myself that they must have it wrong. We cant be this bad. How can the club have got so ill so quickly and why hasn't someone done something about it.  

 

And not being at the game or even in the country isn't an anesthetic, the pain still runs deep!

 

 

 

 

 

[InCider]

Strongly agree BF. The next 3 games will be crucial though. We can't continue with these results much longer.

[Tinmansleftboot]

In all due respect, BF, I disagree with you.

 

SoD has now built his own squad of players and has, in my opinion, had time to, at the very least, get a win in the third division.

 

I look down the entire list of teams that sit above us in the league and just can't fathom out how some of them are in the same division as us, let alone above us.

 

Just because SoD has painted a picture of developing this squad into world beaters doesn't actually mean he's correct or justified in what he's saying.

 

There have been plenty of instances where managers have created winning formulas with more obstacles in their way.

 

In short, if I did my job as badly as SoD and JL did theirs then I would be first in line at my local job centre - even if I used the "give me more time to get better excuse".

 

We just can't afford to go down again. My shares are worth nothing anyway! Where would they be this time next year in division four!

[CityCiderEd]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

Is that the same Doncaster  that sacked SOD after 1 win in 26 league matches,hmmm,sounds a bit familiar.Oh and they weren't in transition either.

[Stephen Lewis]

Been here in Melbourne  25 years and it doesn't get any easier to read of City losing again.

 

But i think were at a point where this so called transition has to be seen through to it's conclusion, even if it means another relegation.

[Red-Robbo]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

 

Its conclusion is relegation.

 

If we wait much longer it will become inescapable.

[Wanderingred]

We are five points adrift of safety... How much more time is he going to get?

[Superjack]

Who we replace him with is a mystery but surely anyone is better than what we have. 

 

Thank you.

 

Hence my 'I don't give a flying ....' thread.

[old parkender]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

That glimpse of the future turned out to be the sack after one win in 26 games a mysterious sacking at florist and now no wins in 21 league games with us!! Forgive me I'm a little bit alarmed at what the future holds.

[Red Cloud]

BF, you also say "fickle fans" - up to last night the majority were still supporting SOD despite 20 league games without a win - that's about as far from "fickle" as you can get!

 

how many clubs would still be that supportive?

[Rich_s]

The hinges of the trap door are being oiled and several clubs are uncontrollably being pulled towards that void. Inaction is not an option. Formation and tactics are not working, the players are trying but it is not working. A month back nobody would have imagined that we hit bottom spot. Is anybody absolutely sure we won't be there at Christmas?

[Bat Fastard]

It is all very well to say " sack the coach" - but this would cost at least a year of his wages. The new man would have an even more constrained budget. He cannot suddenly raise Pearson and Kelly from the treatment couch or turn Kilkenny and Fontain into the dominant characters that we need to ramrod the team. We are stuck with paying their wages - plus those of Elliot and Baldock, who are also probably high earners. The FFP limits expenditure to 60% of turnover - so we are stuffed in the meantime.

If we could get rid of some of the expensive journeymen in January it would help - but don't hold your breath. As I see it, we have little choice but to support SOD and his very young and experienced team. They play well in patches but lack confidence. One win would help because we no longer have dominant players like Tins, a younger Carey or a Shaun Taylor to inspire the team. A true leader on the pitch would help - but would cost. We cannot pay without breaching the FFP rules - so where do we find such a player or players??

[MarcusX]

BF, you also say "fickle fans" - up to last night the majority were still supporting SOD despite 20 league games without a win - that's about as far from "fickle" as you can get!

how many clubs would still be that supportive?

They were, until one mistake on the pitch and all of a sudden boos and contempt. Really helps the players that!

[Aizoon]

BF, you also say "fickle fans" - up to last night the majority were still supporting SOD despite 20 league games without a win - that's about as far from "fickle" as you can get!

how many clubs would still be that supportive?

The fans were magnificent last night. They gave all the encouragement that could reasonably be expected. Special mention for the EE. Well done, guys.

[Aizoon]

Not much wrong with the players, either, come to think of it. Man for man, we were superior to Brentford in almost every position.

Tactics were wrong and Parish, for one, tried to get us to play further up the pitch. Why SOD wasn't doing this, you'll have to ask him.

[Bat Fastard]

Ah the old we're too skint to remove the head coach discussion which has been debunked on here so many times it's beyond the pale. So instead Ill weigh in with the cost of 364 days SO'D's wages vs loss of income on relegation to L2. I'm gunna stake a claim that the loss of income will be significently more than a head coach's salary.

Pertinently SCMP relates to player salaries and not managerial changes either afaik.

FFP relates to turnover and if we are as fully committed as we dare to be - how would it help to sack a perfectly good coach. Maybe you can guarantee that a new manager would certainly turn everything around even if he has no cash to buy new players. This is a time for steady nerves and for fans to support the team. We have been very close and a couple of wins - which will come - will change everything.

[Aizoon]

FFP relates to turnover and if we are as fully committed as we dare to be - how would it help to sack a perfectly good coach. Maybe you can guarantee that a new manager would certainly turn everything around even if he has no cash to buy new players. This is a time for steady nerves and for fans to support the team. We have been very close and a couple of wins - which will come - will change everything.

Sorry. If they play like they did last night, wins are not going to come. In order to win, you have to score, and that starting team could have played all night without bothering their keeper.

[Bazooka Joe]

It is all very well to say " sack the coach" - but this would cost at least a year of his wages.

 

A small price to pay to save us from the mess we are in.

 

It won't break the bank.

[Major Isewater]

[wookey]

Its conclusion is relegation.

 

If we wait much longer it will become inescapable.

 

The conclusion of transition is not relegation to League One but blindly from there to the Conference.

[AshtonGreat]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

 

Oh God, not the 2-5 at Ashton Gate reference again. By that token, we beat Liverpool at Anfield, so we must be better than them.

 

I admire your positivity but you're making far too many excuses for a manager who most of the country can see is failing on every level.

[Bat Fastard]

Let's all agree to disagree. But I feel that is SOD goes then so will many of the staff and better players and we will be relegated anyway. Cotterill, Mad Dog or Pulis and their ilk would be a disaster as far as I am concerned. At least SOD is trying in very difficult circumstances, to build a team that plays good football. It is a big change for our club and fans and I fully understand why patience is wearing thin. I am as frustrated as everyone else but the difference is that I believe that SOD will deliver - even if that does mean the threat of relegation. When the expensive players leave there will be the budget to really build a great team whatever happens.

[CityCiderEd]

Sorry BF but whilst I admire your unstinting loyalty I have a different view.Many 'ordinary' managers with the players SOD has got could play the possession game that he favours.The stats would show like they do currently that we have more of the ball in games but fail to win.If you set up to keep possession as we do, teams will let you have the ball when they can't be hurt.We play one up front at home with JET in behind Baldock and constantly play balls in the air to the smallest player on the pitch.Any manager watching us would easily work out how to combat that and bingo another game where we have most of the possession and one or no points.It,s more than a worry now and I never believed we would be in such a state as we are now.The thing that worries me most is that SOD has been in this position before at previous clubs and failed to turn things around.

[Bat Fastard]

Sorry BF but whilst I admire your unstinting loyalty I have a different view.Many 'ordinary' managers with the players SOD has got could play the possession game that he favours.The stats would show like they do currently that we have more of the ball in games but fail to win.If you set up to keep possession as we do, teams will let you have the ball when they can't be hurt.We play one up front at home with JET in behind Baldock and constantly play balls in the air to the smallest player on the pitch.Any manager watching us would easily work out how to combat that and bingo another game where we have most of the possession and one or no points.It,s more than a worry now and I never believed we would be in such a state as we are now.The thing that worries me most is that SOD has been in this position before at previous clubs and failed to turn things around.

All very fair and reasonable points - but if we keep sacking managers we will spend most of our cash on achieving very little and certainly there can be no prospect of stability for the Club. I have faith in SOD and think that he would do well if given the time. Relegation is a worry - but that would depend upon getting rid of the expensive journeymen in January or in getting them to play a part. It all looks very difficult from here - whatever we do.

[bcfcnick]

I believe that you are wrong on nearly all counts! Factor in FFP, reduced budget, highly paid players injured or out of the team, fickle fans and rank bad luck and you may get closer to the facts. SOD was passed a poisoned challice and has improved a very young squad, who will hopefully stay up and improve by leaps and bounds in the months to come as they become seasoned players. Change is happening but it is slow and painful - sadly some of the hysteria of the fans will make a very difficult position nigh on impossible. In my opinion SOD is a good and intelligent coach - and anyone who saw his Doncaster team beat us 2-5 at the Gate will have had a glimpse of the future ......if they have the patience to wait and the good judgement to support the project to it's conclusion.

 

I admire your loyalty but I think you are wrong on most of the points you use in support of SO'D.

 

FFP? - no excuse, we have a bigger bigger budget than most in this league.

 

Improved young players -  I'm not sure the likes of Marlon Pack, Cunningham, Wynter pre-injury and a few others have improved. They seem to be lacking confidence and that's something that comes from the manager. He's a glass half-full man and has responded to losses with greater caution and we have become an impotent attacking force in his bid to get a clean sheet.  EIther he is a poor motivator who can't get the best out of them or he and Burt are poor recruiters and they are not good enough.  It has to be one or the other.

 

Fickle fans? No, the fans have been very patient and understanding of the difficulties but 21 games without a win and a stubborn approach to formations is bound to test patience.  SO'D frequently two points - firstly results are a consequence of good performances and secondly, invariably, he says the performances have been good.   I'm not sure how a 21 winless streak with 'good' performances with 'lots of positives' fit with SOD's stack up given SO'D's logic  and I assume he is basing it on possession stats.   I think SO'D is right that good performances produce points on the table but an impotent attack and a sloppy defence don't make good performances.

 

The 5-2 win of Doncaster against us? How long can SO'D dine out on that one?  

 

SO'D had some decent players at Doncaster and when he was hit by injuries eh clearly couldn't get lesser players to produce.  So I suspect the Club need someone who wants to play attractive football but who can also get his ideas across more clearly and simply than SO'D.  Nobody wants to see a ranting and raving old style dinosaur of a manager at City but someone with some motivational skills would be welcome.