Lets Face Facts....

[spudski]

.... there is something seriously wrong at Ashton Gate.

 

We have threads on here that keep going round and round in circles. Trying to find a solution.

 

Regardless of who is manager.

 

Regardless of who is playing for us.

 

Regardless of our Coaches and Backroom staff.

 

It doesn't matter who the Club employ... it's not happening for us results wise.

 

Fans shouting for the manager to be sacked can't come up with a guaranteed answer to a solution.

 

Fans complaining about our footballers blowing hot and cold and never being consistent...regardless of who plays.

 

Fans complaining about whoever is in charge... we end up playing hoof football... regardless of manager and playing staff.

 

Fans complain about the Lansdowns... rightly or wrongly... they've ploughed a fortune in and wasted it, and have appointed numerous managers that have all failed eventually.

 

So we get new mangers...they don't work.

 

We get new players....they end up going backwards.

 

We get new coaches and backroom staff... they end up being released eventually.

 

So....what's the answers if all of those things have failed and continue to fail?

 

We can go round and round in circles...and get no where.

 

Do we continue to keep making the same mistakes?

 

Do we try and change tact?

 

I don't know the answer...

 

However... I've come to the conclusion in my head that right now we need to do something different.

 

The only thing that would be different to what we've done in the past, is to not change.

 

We could bring in another manager and he could bring his backroom staff with him and we still struggle like before...

 

What would fans suggest then... to keep changing, and continue doing so?

 

I've not got the answer... but for me I've come to the conclusion that we've changed so much in the past that it's not worked.

 

We've never tried keeping hold of someone long term and developing.

 

Perhaps we should?

 

I don't know... but our history shows that everytime we change when it gets uncomfortable, we **** up even more.

 

This isn't a SoD stay post. This is purely a post noticing the 'constants' that have happened at our club and that we've failed doing them.

 

I personally don't think change is the answer now... purely from the conclusions I've come too.

 

That is regardless of the manager we have in charge right now.

 

It's quiet interesting when you break it all down.

 

Any thoughts?

[kevinmabbuttshair]

Something we've not changed for a long time is changing the board

[spudski]

Something we've not changed for a long time is changing the board

How do you do that?

[kevinmabbuttshair]

In the old days you went to the directors entrance and told em where to go. Now you whinge on the interenet and nowt changes

[Rich_s]

Hate to say it but there's no wealthy investor looking to buy out Lansdown so I just pray and hope that the 5 pillars works.

 

That sounds defeatist I'm sure but what sensibly are our options?

[Kid in the Riot]

McInnes:

 

St Johnstone SUCCESS

Bristol City FAILURE

Aberdeen

[Kid in the Riot]

McInnes:

 

St Johnstone SUCCESS

Bristol City FAILURE

Aberdeen DOING WELL

 

O'Driscoll:

 

Bournemouth SUCCESS

Doncaster SUCCESS

Nottm Forest DID WELL

Bristol City FAILING

 

The one constant is Bristol City FC.

[cheese]

Have we tried changing the fans?

[craigBCFC]

The answer is consistency. Whether supporters like it or not you can't change the dynamics of a football club over and over again and expect them to succeed! We have had 5 different managers in 4 years, the owners have gone from spending at will to saying to SOD sorry you have nothing to spend and you need yo use the under-utilised academy. At the moment I see no other choice than sticking with SOD and hoping that he manages to get this group playing better. As the one thing for certain is there is no money to spend to get out of this! I see mild glimpses of improvement especially defensively, but the brand that is on show especially at home just isn't good enough to appease the fans.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Have we tried changing the fans?

 

That process seems to be well under way.

[cheese]

That process seems to be well under way.

 

Perhaps that's the transition to which they keep referring!

[havanatopia]

.... there is something seriously wrong at Ashton Gate.

 

We have threads on here that keep going round and round in circles. Trying to find a solution.

 

Regardless of who is manager.

 

Regardless of who is playing for us.

 

Regardless of our Coaches and Backroom staff.

 

It doesn't matter who the Club employ... it's not happening for us results wise.

 

Fans shouting for the manager to be sacked can't come up with a guaranteed answer to a solution.

 

Fans complaining about our footballers blowing hot and cold and never being consistent...regardless of who plays.

 

Fans complaining about whoever is in charge... we end up playing hoof football... regardless of manager and playing staff.

 

Fans complain about the Lansdowns... rightly or wrongly... they've ploughed a fortune in and wasted it, and have appointed numerous managers that have all failed eventually.

 

So we get new mangers...they don't work.

 

We get new players....they end up going backwards.

 

We get new coaches and backroom staff... they end up being released eventually.

 

So....what's the answers if all of those things have failed and continue to fail?

 

We can go round and round in circles...and get no where.

 

Do we continue to keep making the same mistakes?

 

Do we try and change tact?

 

I don't know the answer...

 

However... I've come to the conclusion in my head that right now we need to do something different.

 

The only thing that would be different to what we've done in the past, is to not change.

 

We could bring in another manager and he could bring his backroom staff with him and we still struggle like before...

 

What would fans suggest then... to keep changing, and continue doing so?

 

I've not got the answer... but for me I've come to the conclusion that we've changed so much in the past that it's not worked.

 

We've never tried keeping hold of someone long term and developing.

 

Perhaps we should?

 

I don't know... but our history shows that everytime we change when it gets uncomfortable, we **** up even more.

 

This isn't a SoD stay post. This is purely a post noticing the 'constants' that have happened at our club and that we've failed doing them.

 

I personally don't think change is the answer now... purely from the conclusions I've come too.

 

That is regardless of the manager we have in charge right now.

 

It's quiet interesting when you break it all down.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Yeah.. try keeping someone's attention and interest by shortening the thread a tad.  cheers.

[spudski]

Yeah.. try keeping someone's attention and interest by shortening the thread a tad.  cheers.

Ah...more of a 'soundbites' man...my apologies... It seems a lot of fans prefer this...hence why not liking SoD.

 

More 'The Sun' rather than 'The Times' ?

[havanatopia]

Ah...more of a 'soundbites' man...my apologies... It seems a lot of fans prefer this...hence why not liking SoD.

 

More 'The Sun' rather than 'The Times' ?

 

hahaha.aa... you made me laugh. fair dinkum.

 

I apparently prefer soundbites but am not disliking SO'D... yet... so i must be a rare species.

[phantom]

Hate to say it but there's no wealthy investor looking to buy out Lansdown

 

Not sure that anyone is in a position to claim that.

Smaller clubs seem to get interest in them, maybe it has to be 'advertised' for sale before someone comes on board.

 

When Scott D was in charge, nobody would have expected SL to come in and take over and invest like he did

[Rich_s]

Not sure that anyone is in a position to claim that.

Smaller clubs seem to get interest in them, maybe it has to be 'advertised' for sale before someone comes on board.

 

When Scott D was in charge, nobody would have expected SL to come in and take over and invest like he did

Fair comment. Not sure if anyone is in a position to claim otherwise either. Nice thought though.

[havanatopia]

Not sure that anyone is in a position to claim that.

Smaller clubs seem to get interest in them, maybe it has to be 'advertised' for sale before someone comes on board.

 

When Scott D was in charge, nobody would have expected SL to come in and take over and invest like he did

 

Sorry to bring up the 'old chestnut' as some would have it but FFP is clearly gonna put a lot of potential investors right off. I am just waiting for the latter part or end of this season to see who is hit with a transfer embargo. In the Championship the The Indian Chicken Rovers are heading blind right up that alley for one and I am sure there will be many more.

[Somerset_Sam]

You can get around FFP (as SOD mentioned in a recent interview) you pay the fine, pretty sure thats what some will do.

[Monkeh]

Not sure that anyone is in a position to claim that.

Smaller clubs seem to get interest in them, maybe it has to be 'advertised' for sale before someone comes on board.

 

When Scott D was in charge, nobody would have expected SL to come in and take over and invest like he did

an invester can only invest if the club are willing to let them,

If we wanted outside investment SL will sell some of his considrable amount of shares

[havanatopia]

You can get around FFP (as SOD mentioned in a recent interview) you pay the fine, pretty sure thats what some will do.

 

Transfer embargo still applies though.

[Somerset_Sam]

Transfer embargo still applies though.

 

I wish we'd had a transfer embargo in place for the last 4 years.

[CodeRed]

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

In the old days you went to the directors entrance and told em where to go. Now you whinge on the interenet and nowt changes

  

Yes, don't remind me. Plus, those gobby buggers in the "chicken run," the old Enclosure, used to turn around, on masse, and, pointing straight at us in the d.box above, with twisted, contorted faces, give the board proper dog's abuse. "You don't know what you're doing!" and, "Sack the board!" and, "F'Q!" and so on. Most unpleasant. Putting seats in there was a stroke of genius. And self-preservation. Long may they stay asleep in the lower Willies. And empty, in the posher ones in between.

Sorry to bring up the 'old chestnut' as some would have it but FFP is clearly gonna put a lot of potential investors right off. I am just waiting for the latter part or end of this season to see who is hit with a transfer embargo. In the Championship the The Indian Chicken Rovers are heading blind right up that alley for one and I am sure there will be many more.

Potential investors put off? By FFP? On the contrary. That's a Go-To, Top, Top Excuse for refusing to get our wallets out and not spend any dosh. That's a green-light to all of us: all the kudos of running the show, with none of the expectation that we will have to invest any of our hard-earned. Oh, to have had FFP in the 80s

[Esmond Million's Bung]

.... there is something seriously wrong at Ashton Gate.

 

We have threads on here that keep going round and round in circles. Trying to find a solution.

 

Regardless of who is manager.

 

Regardless of who is playing for us.

 

Regardless of our Coaches and Backroom staff.

 

It doesn't matter who the Club employ... it's not happening for us results wise.

 

1. Fans shouting for the manager to be sacked can't come up with a guaranteed answer to a solution.

 

2. Fans complaining about our footballers blowing hot and cold and never being consistent...regardless of who plays.

 

Fans complaining about whoever is in charge... we end up playing hoof football... regardless of manager and playing staff.

 

Fans complain about the Lansdowns... rightly or wrongly... they've ploughed a fortune in and wasted it, and have appointed numerous managers that have all failed eventually.

 

So we get new mangers...they don't work.

 

We get new players....they end up going backwards.

 

We get new coaches and backroom staff... they end up being released eventually.

 

So....what's the answers if all of those things have failed and continue to fail?

 

We can go round and round in circles...and get no where.

 

Do we continue to keep making the same mistakes?

 

Do we try and change tact?

 

I don't know the answer...

 

However... I've come to the conclusion in my head that right now we need to do something different.

 

The only thing that would be different to what we've done in the past, is to not change.

 

We could bring in another manager and he could bring his backroom staff with him and we still struggle like before...

 

What would fans suggest then... to keep changing, and continue doing so?

 

I've not got the answer... but for me I've come to the conclusion that we've changed so much in the past that it's not worked.

 

We've never tried keeping hold of someone long term and developing.

 

Perhaps we should?

 

I don't know... but our history shows that everytime we change when it gets uncomfortable, we **** up even more.

 

This isn't a SoD stay post. This is purely a post noticing the 'constants' that have happened at our club and that we've failed doing them.

 

I personally don't think change is the answer now... purely from the conclusions I've come too.

 

That is regardless of the manager we have in charge right now.

 

It's quiet interesting when you break it all down.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I agree with much that you say, I have highlighted a few individual responses.

 

1. That is not and has never been our job, that is the job of the bloke who multiplied our debt and got bored after he was forced to sack Johnson.

 

2. All reasonable things to moan about.

 

Somebody started a thread recently titled 'the emperors new clothes' and I see where that is coming from. The fans who will hear no bad whatsoever about SOD seem to think that they are the only one that understand what he is trying to achieve at the club, that is nonsense everybody understands what he trying to achieve. Now this is where the problem really is at this precise moment in time, SOD is being solely credited by many as the inventor of the 5 pillars which again is nonsense, it's a strategy that he and the board arrived at, which means that SOD is not the only coach in the universe able to adhere to the 5 pillars, it is achievable with somebody else, Swansea proved that Laudrup is the 5th in that line of managers and the philosophy has not changed at all.

 

Transition is one thing but there are plenty teams in this pitiful division that are similarly in transition but adapting well enough, 1 win in 22 games is simply not good enough and look at 'where did you expect us to finish' thread and mid table was the popular vote, not an over expectation is it? and now only a few can actually see that happening and most of those would accept relegation as a consequence as long as SOD remains.

 

what can be done? first a couple of pre season mistakes, was the long pursuit of Flint and subsequent bigger offers we made a distraction?, did we pay over the odds?, blow more of the budget than we needed to on him?, I don't know the answer to that one but I was surprised that he appeared to be the only target in that position. Carey and Harewood were mistakes IMO and so was SOD's glowing endorsement of Killkenny, Fontaine I can fully understand you don't become that poor overnight.

 

What has become an obvious problem is JET and please bear with me here, nobody knows JET better than SOD, however I suspect that SOD did not expect the immediate impact that JET has made, I suspect whilst the transition was occurring with 11 fully committed players giving 100% and results improving JET was going to be more of an impact player from the bench and then unleashed when the transition started to bear fruit and we had a team capable of carrying the occasional passenger (albeit a mercurial passenger) during games, unfortunately for SOD that hasn't happened, JET has been a sensation as we know and dropping him is unthinkable, but until we build a team around JET to allow this to happen we will struggle IMO, perhaps the january window might save SOD from ultimately making the unthinkable decision. in short JET makes it very difficult to have a fully functioning system for that you need 11 players and the most used description of JET this season has been, "i'm not sure JET even knows what he is going to do when he gets the ball".

 

Re-SOD I think everybody knows his tenure with us is becoming more tenuous by the week, it cannot be allowed to carry on much longer IMO. But contrary to popular belief I have never once called for his sacking, my problem with him has always been excuses, not taking enough responsibility and ill judged interview sound bytes.

 

Spudski you obviously want debate, these are my personal feelings, so let's debate.

 

 

 

 

[spudski]

Well in response to RMLF and EMB.... thanks for your reasoned responses.

 

It's hard to really respond without going over old ground and repeating ourselves.

 

What I would like to know from you both, is if SoD was replaced and the new manager came in and did no better, would you ultimately ask for their heads as well?

 

And if so... the replacements continued to take us down this spiral....would you continue to ask for their heads as well?

In other words...where does it eventually stop?

This continual sacking of managers when it gets uncomfortable.

5 managers in 5 years....

 

Would you keep changing managers if we continued to spiral?

 

The point i'm making... we keep changing managers...it doesn't work.

 

Why not try something different and stick with a manager...even if it's taking longer than we like?

 

I can only draw your attention to Russell slade at Orient. Since 2010...

Given time to develop a team after just avoiding relegation.

Sticking with the players and keeping to an ethos...now look at them...

[spudski]

Re Russell Slade, saved Orient from relegation when appointed, something daft like 10 points from 6 games, then 7th then 20th then 7th..

Compare that with  near 1/2 season, relegated dead last, and new season 2nd from bottom on goal difference. Sure Slade had a misfire, but he has also had the success to try and turn it around. SO'D hasnt done anything suggestive that he can here, to have the 'time' to do it. In other words, no success

 

It's a blind faith 'stick', that you are suggesting, based on at present, continual failure. So'ds past rep counts for nothing at this stage (not that I ever thought it was good as made out on here anyway) and judged on what he has done for us thus far it can only be seen as an utter and complete failure.

 

We are looking likely to be relegated, barring a change, SO'D has taken us down once and shown zilch progression, someone, anyone could do better, if they dont then I will hold them to account as I've done with everyone.

 

5 managers in 5 years? Your point being what? Chelsea have had 8 in 5 years and managed a Champions League win, a Premier League win and  a few FA Cups.

 

Manager churn is certainly not what this is about. It's about being progressive and actually transitioning rather than sitting about endlessly waxing lyrical about what should and could happen. The proof is in the doing, and we currently arent doing. SO'D needs to change that or he will be without employment.

You still didn't answer my question though....

[CotswoldRed]

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Well in response to RMLF and EMB.... thanks for your reasoned responses.

 

It's hard to really respond without going over old ground and repeating ourselves.

 

What I would like to know from you both, is if SoD was replaced and the new manager came in and did no better, would you ultimately ask for their heads as well?

 

And if so... the replacements continued to take us down this spiral....would you continue to ask for their heads as well?

In other words...where does it eventually stop?

This continual sacking of managers when it gets uncomfortable.

5 managers in 5 years....

 

Would you keep changing managers if we continued to spiral?

 

The point i'm making... we keep changing managers...it doesn't work.

 

Why not try something different and stick with a manager...even if it's taking longer than we like?

 

I can only draw your attention to Russell slade at Orient. Since 2010...

Given time to develop a team after just avoiding relegation.

Sticking with the players and keeping to an ethos...now look at them...

 

I totally agree we cannot carry on in this vein, it's farcical, the talk during our losing run has been about the law of averages and I suspect that could cover our luck with managers.

 

Firstly without checking the facts I would suspect that Russell Slade never presided over a run of 1 win in 22 games, that is exceptional by anybody's standards and the question is really when is enough enough?, the notion that another relegation would be ok is beyond comprehension and what worries me more than anything is the lack of fight under SOD in last years relegation, the alarm bells for me were ringing after the Wolves loss and the casual way that SOD reacted to  that defeat.

 

I think time is now in short supply for SOD, he might be the man but by the same token he might be the guy taking us down again and not be able for whatever reason to bring us back up, but his appalling record with little or no evidence  despite the Carlisle win that he can turn it around long term is what will do for him in the end, nothing else, I suspect had Slade had a similar record at Orient, you wouldn't be able to reference him now.

 

Can you think of another manager who had a similar poor record as SOD and not only kept his job but went on to become a success? I can't off of the top of my head, it was a difficult job we all know that, but honestly was ever that difficult that he could only guide us to 1 win in 22 games?

 

OK i'll answer the other question, yes if their record was as poor as SOD's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spudski]

Which one dude? must have missed it, sorry. Please can you re affirm said question, cheers

This one mate...

 

Quote....

 

/What I would like to know from you both, is if SoD was replaced and the new manager came in and did no better, would you ultimately ask for their heads as well?

 

And if so... the replacements continued to take us down this spiral....would you continue to ask for their heads as well?

In other words...where does it eventually stop?

This continual sacking of managers when it gets uncomfortable.

5 managers in 5 years....

 

Would you keep changing managers if we continued to spiral?'

[spudski]

I totally agree we cannot carry on in this vein, it's farcical, the talk during our losing run has been about the law of averages and I suspect that could cover our luck with managers.

 

Firstly without checking the facts I would suspect that Russell Slade never presided over a run of 1 win in 22 games, that is exceptional by anybody's standards and the question is really when is enough enough?, the notion that another relegation would be ok is beyond comprehension and what worries me more than anything is the lack of fight under SOD in last years relegation, the alarm bells for me were ringing after the Wolves loss and the casual way that SOD reacted to  that defeat.

 

I think time is now in short supply for SOD, he might be the man but by the same token he might be the guy taking us down again and not be able for whatever reason to bring us back up, but his appalling record with little or no evidence  despite the Carlisle win that he can turn it around long term is what will do for him in the end, nothing else, I suspect had Slade had a similar record at Orient, you wouldn't be able to reference him now.

 

Can you think of another manager who had a similar poor record as SOD and not only kept his job but went on to become a success? I can't off of the top of my head, it was a difficult job we all know that, but honestly was ever that difficult that he could only guide us to 1 win in 22 games?

My reasoning would be, if we are still in the same position by the new year, but within one win or there abouts of getting out of relegation...in other words 4 or 5 teams all in the same boat as us, then i'd keep going with what we've got.