Why We Are Down The Bottom

[Monkeh]

it was poor defending simple as that, thats why we are at this level its going to happen, the pleaseing thing is we didn't completely colapse and lose the game which what we would of done 3 or 4 weeks ago so you have to take that positive,

 

Picking up points on the road is never a bad thing but we simply have to win all our remaining home games due to the amount of dropped points there,

[Aizoon]

You are 100% correct Ian, more of our players should 'charge the ball'.

 

If they did we would be in the Premier League I'm sure.

 

Thanks again.

 

Isn't that what they do in the Downs League?

[Nogbad the Bad]

it was poor defending simple as that, thats why we are at this level its going to happen, the pleaseing thing is we didn't completely colapse and lose the game which what we would of done 3 or 4 weeks ago so you have to take that positive,

 

Picking up points on the road is never a bad thing but we simply have to win all our remaining home games due to the amount of dropped points there,

 

I make it we've got 15 home games left, we're hardly likely to win all of them!

[semblar]

14 points so far, plus the abovementioned 45 points from (however unlikely) winning our remaining home games = 59.

 

So on that basis a point a game away from home would equate to a likely playoff place. I'd have a bit of that - but I would also question (as NtD seems to do) the assumption that we "have" to win all our remaining games....

 

I make it we've got 15 home games left, we're hardly likely to win all of them!

[Bar BS3]

As said there is always, well nearly a fault with any goal, however Sam's goal was sublime, the pass from Bobby Reid was perfectly weighted, and a strikers finish to cap it off. 

It was indeed a fine goal, but you could look at it from Tranmere's perspective and be unhappy about the space he had when he collected the ball, the fact that ran unchallenged into their box and even possibly that the keeper could have been out at Baldock a bit quicker than he was.

 

Like most are saying, it is easy to pick fault in hindsight and pretty much every goal COULD have been stopped.

[Monkeh]

I make it we've got 15 home games left, we're hardly likely to win all of them!

why not? we are the own team we shouldn't be rolled over so easily which has been our problem since Johnson left,

Good home record is the foundation of a good season something we've been lacking,

Maybe not win them all but we should at least be unbeaten

[Aizoon]

It was indeed a fine goal, but you could look at it from Tranmere's perspective and be unhappy about the space he had when he collected the ball, the fact that ran unchallenged into their box and even possibly that the keeper could have been out at Baldock a bit quicker than he was.

Like most are saying, it is easy to pick fault in hindsight and pretty much every goal COULD have been stopped.

And that is the role of the defensive coach in a top club. Which were aren't.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Well we know SOD wasn't happy with their goal and HE didn't make any excuses, hopefully he will show the players where HE thinks they went wrong and as he said about Flint's faux pas against Port Vale when asked what can be done to cut out such mistakes "don't do it again".

 

The thing about hindsight is learning.

[Harry]

Watch Marlon Pack for their goal  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54343lrfvNM

 

Surely, surely he should be charging at that ball??He might not get there but damn at least make an effort to.

Mmmm...you mentioned this is the Tranny match thread and then thought it was so important and that you were so right that you would give it it's own thread.

As others have correctly pointed out, Pack was already covering a midfield player who was potentially in a far more dangerous position.

 

Lets break down the whole move shall we?

We have 2 left backs in the team, who were pulled out of position so much that Gillet had to come over from centre mid to help out.  The attempt to stop the cross is poor (though well worked by Tranny).

The cross itself is actually quite poor and there is only 1 Tranny player in the box (at the far post).  Osborne's position is good (level with the near post, 6 yards out - perfect).  However, Flint comes too close to Osborne, meaning Moloney has to tuck in further.  So at this point, we basically have 3 men in the 6 yard box catering for 1 Tranny attacker.

Osbornes header is not great and reaches their winger at the far side of the box.  Now, had Moloney not had to come in so far, he could have been closer to his man, but he had to come in to cover for Flint.

Now, note at this point that our right midfield player, Reid, is standing on the penalty spot?  No idea how he got dragged all the way in there?  But it was not necessary as Flint and Osborne only had 1 man to deal with?

So, the Tranny winger has the ball in too much space inside our box and their left back has an acre of space in which to come forward (again, where's our right winger?)

Once the ball is played to their left back, he is not in a dangerous position and we'd happily settle for a full back taking a shot from that angle 99 times out of 100.  Pack correctly stays central with his midfielder.  We already have 3 players (Moloney, Flint & Reid) between the ball and the goal, plus our keeper.  This full back will have to get very lucky to score from there - and he's gets his luck.

Also, when the ball is played back, Pack is a good 12 yards away from where the ball is eventually struck from.  A total of 1.4 seconds elapses between.  If you want Pack to have closed this 12 yards in just over 1 second, then you might want Usain Bolt playing in midfield instead!

 

I can sense an undercurrent of Pack becoming a scapegoat after a mere 15 games for this club.  I'll say again what I've said before, hardly any (if any) goals against this season have come via a team waltzing straight through our midfield.  Unlike so many occasions in the previous few years.

Pack's defensive role has been good.  He's preventing goals coming down the middle of the team. Yes, he needs to do more and can certainly improve, but his defensive midfield role, for me, has been generally pretty solid.

[Swede]

I would say an over reliance on Marlon Pack doesn't help especially as he is playing up a level yet he is picked week after week.

[Monkeh]

Mmmm...you mentioned this is the Tranny match thread and then thought it was so important and that you were so right that you would give it it's own thread.

As others have correctly pointed out, Pack was already covering a midfield player who was potentially in a far more dangerous position.

 

Lets break down the whole move shall we?

We have 2 left backs in the team, who were pulled out of position so much that Gillet had to come over from centre mid to help out.  The attempt to stop the cross is poor (though well worked by Tranny).

The cross itself is actually quite poor and there is only 1 Tranny player in the box (at the far post).  Osborne's position is good (level with the near post, 6 yards out - perfect).  However, Flint comes too close to Osborne, meaning Moloney has to tuck in further.  So at this point, we basically have 3 men in the 6 yard box catering for 1 Tranny attacker.

Osbornes header is not great and reaches their winger at the far side of the box.  Now, had Moloney not had to come in so far, he could have been closer to his man, but he had to come in to cover for Flint.

Now, note at this point that our right midfield player, Reid, is standing on the penalty spot?  No idea how he got dragged all the way in there?  But it was not necessary as Flint and Osborne only had 1 man to deal with?

So, the Tranny winger has the ball in too much space inside our box and their left back has an acre of space in which to come forward (again, where's our right winger?)

Once the ball is played to their left back, he is not in a dangerous position and we'd happily settle for a full back taking a shot from that angle 99 times out of 100.  Pack correctly stays central with his midfielder.  We already have 3 players (Moloney, Flint & Reid) between the ball and the goal, plus our keeper.  This full back will have to get very lucky to score from there - and he's gets his luck.

Also, when the ball is played back, Pack is a good 12 yards away from where the ball is eventually struck from.  A total of 1.4 seconds elapses between.  If you want Pack to have closed this 12 yards in just over 1 second, then you might want Usain Bolt playing in midfield instead!

 

I can sense an undercurrent of Pack becoming a scapegoat after a mere 15 games for this club.  I'll say again what I've said before, hardly any (if any) goals against this season have come via a team waltzing straight through our midfield.  Unlike so many occasions in the previous few years.

Pack's defensive role has been good.  He's preventing goals coming down the middle of the team. Yes, he needs to do more and can certainly improve, but his defensive midfield role, for me, has been generally pretty solid.

I don't think pack is a scapegoat I think he's a let down after all the build up about him on here, that said he was fantastic against the daggers and needs to play like that more often to quell the growing number of people questioning his involvement in the team,

[Spike]

I don't think pack is a scapegoat I think he's a let down after all the build up about him on here, that said he was fantastic against the daggers and needs to play like that more often to quell the growing number of people questioning his involvement in the team,

 

but he isn't playing any worse, it's the lack of effort around him. As it's been said before, he can't cover everyone, and if his teammates are in poor positions he's always going to be overloaded with decision as he'll have too many options to cover.

 

He's a good player in our midfield and it just seems like no matter who we have people always pick fault rather than looking at all the good they are doing. You only have to look at some of the players who have been played down whilst here to see how well they've done elsewhere, the reason being that their new teammates work better as part of a whole.

[Nogbad the Bad]

why not? we are the own team we shouldn't be rolled over so easily which has been our problem since Johnson left,

Good home record is the foundation of a good season something we've been lacking,

Maybe not win them all but we should at least be unbeaten

 

Still highly optimistic, I'd say - we've got 8 of the top 12 yet to come to AG, and we got just 1 point out of 12 from the other 4.

 

Hopefully we'll markedly improve our home record over the rest of the season, but it'll still be very surprising if there aren't at least a couple of defeats along the way.

[Bedminster Born And Red]

but he isn't playing any worse, it's the lack of effort around him. As it's been said before, he can't cover everyone, and if his teammates are in poor positions he's always going to be overloaded with decision as he'll have too many options to cover.

 

He's a good player in our midfield and it just seems like no matter who we have people always pick fault rather than looking at all the good they are doing. You only have to look at some of the players who have been played down whilst here to see how well they've done elsewhere, the reason being that their new teammates work better as part of a whole.

Couldn't disagree with you more. Our problems this season are NOT down to lack of effort. Individual mistakes - yes. Inexperience - yes. Lack of ability - yes. Team selection - at times. But no way am I having it that the players around Pack are not putting in the EFFORT. That's an insult to the likes of Bobby Reid, Scott Wagstaff, Marvin Elliott and the like.

[Aizoon]

Dead right. Effort is one thing that hasn't been missing this season.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Couldn't disagree with you more. Our problems this season are NOT down to lack of effort. Individual mistakes - yes. Inexperience - yes. Lack of ability - yes. Team selection - at times. But no way am I having it that the players around Pack are not putting in the EFFORT. That's an insult to the likes of Bobby Reid, Scott Wagstaff, Marvin Elliott and the like.

 

 

Dead right. Effort is one thing that hasn't been missing this season.

 

Agree totally and this was not an individual mistake which as we know cannot be factored for, this more of a collective effort individually of little consequence but resulting in an unnecessary goal at a time when by all accounts we were cruising, which is why I suspect SOD will be more angry about it and he was quite right to talk up the positives after the game, like for instance in the past it would have more likely have been a game we would have lost.

 

it was however IMO a glaring example of the need for a defensive organiser.

 

 

[Rinkadink]

No. He's chosen to mark the man to his left thus pushing the goal scorer out wide. If pack goes to ball goal scorer passes inside and this player has a better angle at goal. Pack did everything right IMO, pushing the play out wide, narrowing the angle.

You are right insinuating that there shouldn't be a spare man when defending and that no one should be scoring from that angle but you didn't actually state that instead you chose to single out Pack.

Had you watched it carefully you may have saw the truth. But probably not, which is why I'm elated that you are not on the coaching staff.

If you are going to single out individuals and jump on their back, particularly when their confidence appears low, may I suggest you pop down the rugby ground and infiltrate them with negativity if thats your agenda.

Otherwise become a City supporter not a critic.

Ctid

Hope you mean the gas and not Bristol RFC.

We have enough doom merchants already, ta. :-D

[Spike]

Couldn't disagree with you more. Our problems this season are NOT down to lack of effort. Individual mistakes - yes. Inexperience - yes. Lack of ability - yes. Team selection - at times. But no way am I having it that the players around Pack are not putting in the EFFORT. That's an insult to the likes of Bobby Reid, Scott Wagstaff, Marvin Elliott and the like.

 

Hmm I guess I could have worded it a lot better as I do agree that it's down to these things but as great as I think Reid has been I do not think Elliot can fall into the inexperience category which means it has to be lack of ability or individual mistakes right? Well Elliot has plenty of experience, he certainly has the ability as we saw it in the past, when he was younger and I can't put it down to individual mistakes unless he's too regular at making them which in my eyes makes him not good enough.

 

What I was trying to say is that Pack is a good player and shouldn't be made a scapegoat because the team are not always working well as a single unit. If you break down that goal it's basically a game of dominoes, one player is out of position, another covers his position which leaves his own unmarked, someone else follows rather than covering another option and before you know it everyone is stretched out of position and unable to recover. For me this either breaks down to individuals not having an understanding with each other on who will do what or who will close down who or a lack of trust in team-mates ability.

 

I think most of us will have played football at some level and probably experienced a situation where your best midfielder is relied on to do extra work because another midfielder isn't quite so sturdy or has weaknesses in his game, it's the same situation at any level, it's just the scale that changes and from what I see I can't help but think the team doesn't trust itself quite as much as it should by now. I'm not saying it won't get there because it's certainly improving but it's a big part of the gelling process and unless there is good stability in who plays with who it'll take longer as each player learns how another player thinks.

 

I think more often than not a lot of our players are criticise unfairly because some of our fans don't read the game properly and that's why they're not managers and rightfully so.

 

Anyway, yes effort is obviously the wrong word but there is still a case of players not doing what they should be in certain circumstances but with a few changes in the squad I think that would change and even if those changes are not made over time players will adapt to each other making those situations less frequent.