Questions For The Holy Believers Of The Sod Cult

[Nibor]

[havanatopia]

Very funny that the SOD haters are now panicing over the possible appointment of Cotterill. No doubt he will be another that won't last a year.

 

Think you will find its a fairly even spread of the majority on here who do NOT want Cotterill. But, the silver lining is he will probably last longer than a year because we will be playing hoof ball from the off. Something to look forward to then. NOT.

[fka dagest]

A perfectly fair opinion and perfectly well expressed. That's all you had to say without the gloating, piss-taking nature of your OP.

 

Sorry Rudolf.  I just can't resist the temptation to cause a bit of mischief.

 

 It's all good fun and lest you think me a negative influence, I should point out that I started a positive, serious post today about the profile of a successful, modern manager.

 

Oddly enough, most would still rather debate the last one.

[Portland Bill]

I've never seen such devotion to a failing manager. The church of Sean O'Driscoll.

Here he is, "Mr Happy", I wondered how long it would be till you turned up.

Let's all hear your opinion on who takes over now?

Let's have a name from you, you know, the same one that you will slag off in 6 months time

[fka dagest]

[BristolCity?]

We had turned the corner in the last six or so games.

.

Losing at home to Sheffield utd is not turning the corner.

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

Here he is, "Mr Happy", I wondered how long it would be till you turned up.

Let's all hear your opinion on who takes over now?

Let's have a name from you, you know, the same one that you will slag off in 6 months time

C'mon Bill, get it right. "Mr Happy?"

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

[Nibor]

Good Lord.  Bitter, really?  I only see one bitter person in this cut and thrust Nibor.  And really, must you litter every post with a small offensive name?

You're confusing adjectives describing posts and name calling. You do seem very confused.

 

I think it takes something away from you posts, although for me, now, you will always be the poster who wrote:

  

I think that's worthy advice for any club interviewing prospective managers.  Just imagine. "sit down Mr X.  Here at this club we don't focus on results. We're interested in what you say and do."

Oh dear, the same mistake again. Let me try and lay it out for you:

Making key decisions about the future of the club based on JUST a league table is stupid. Literally stupid. I expect more from the custodians of the club than that. They should understand why the results are happening, and be able to explain why making a change will improve them. They don't and haven't.

The head coach is only one facet of the results the team gets. There are many more reasons for them, some of which I mentioned, so sacking the head coach is not guaranteed to fix anything. This is quite clearly evidenced by us in the last five years, and in fact by the entire history of football. Clubs who change coach/manager regularly have on average far less success than those who don't.

You are advocating sacking SOD based on past results. This is idiotic. You should never make decisions based on history, you should make them based on a careful opinion about THE FUTURE. You have not explained why you think sacking SOD will bring us better results either. It's a weak, weak argument.

 

Lastly, I'll finish with another cheap shot as I know you like that sort of thing. You're a buffoon (a bit more original than the usual eh?)

You do read your own posts before you hit the button right? Or are you just trolling?

 

Losing at home to Sheffield utd is not turning the corner.

I think you need to look at what actually happened in that game. Sheff United put 10 men behind the ball and it was hard to break them down. We got unluckily caught on the break. It happens sometimes. If you were to watch that game again more carefully you might see that.

[italian dave]

[fka dagest]

You're confusing adjectives describing posts and name calling. You do seem very confused.

 

Oh dear, the same mistake again. Let me try and lay it out for you:

Making key decisions about the future of the club based on JUST a league table is stupid. Literally stupid. I expect more from the custodians of the club than that. They should understand why the results are happening, and be able to explain why making a change will improve them. They don't and haven't.

The head coach is only one facet of the results the team gets. There are many more reasons for them, some of which I mentioned, so sacking the head coach is not guaranteed to fix anything. This is quite clearly evidenced by us in the last five years, and in fact by the entire history of football. Clubs who change coach/manager regularly have on average far less success than those who don't.

You are advocating sacking SOD based on past results. This is idiotic. You should never make decisions based on history, you should make them based on a careful opinion about THE FUTURE. You have not explained why you think sacking SOD will bring us better results either. It's a weak, weak argument.

 

You do read your own posts before you hit the button right? Or are you just trolling?

 

I think you need to look at what actually happened in that game. Sheff United put 10 men behind the ball and it was hard to break them down. We got unluckily caught on the break. It happens sometimes. If you were to watch that game again more carefully you might see that.

 

 

Is there a single club in the world that sacks a manager based on future results?  How do you assess the likely direction of the team's progress without assessing what's gone before it?  How do you measure progress?

 

I think sacking SOD is likely to bring about better results because chance alone will probably see someone in the hot-seat with a better sequence of results.  Can it really be much worse?

 

I think you're insane.  Is that a character trait of the cult member?  Probably.

 

I think you need to sit down (and that's being generous).

[Nibor]

Is there a single club in the world that sacks a manager based on future results?  How do you assess the likely direction of the team's progress without assessing what's gone before it?  How do you measure progress?

You have to actually understand how the thing works to make a decision about how to improve it. What's unusual about this?

I think sacking SOD is likely to bring about better results because chance alone will probably see someone in the hot-seat with a better sequence of results.  Can it really be much worse?

 

Did you think the same when we sacked McInnes? Millen?

This is what not thinking properly gets you.

I think you're insane.

And yet, you're the one advocating repeating an action that has helped us to consistently fail and expecting different results.

You've still not explained what it is you think that a new coach (in fact EVERY new coach since you don't know who it is) is going to do to improve things. It's irrational to just leap to the conclusion you've arrived at with no insight other than results.

To be honest I think you're just trolling because the quality of your argument is not usually completely absent like this.

[Milo]

All supporters care about results and judge a manager on his likelihood of delivering them in the future. The difference in opinion is related to the amount of time we are willing to give the manager to see whether he is likely to deliver the results. The amount of time should be given in context to the position that is inherited. That context includes a variety of issues that include a losing mentality, over-paid under-talented playing squad, lack of leadership and support at board level, disaffected supporters after years of disappointment being quick and vocal in criticism, a lack of structure at academy level, a focus on recruiting young and/or inexperienced players still learning the game and making individual mistakes etc. The anger and disappointment from me is that in my opinion there has been not enough time given in the circumstances and that I think we've just ditched the best and most qualified man for the job.

[Strictly Obi]

Is there a single club in the world that sacks a manager based on future results? How do you assess the likely direction of the team's progress without assessing what's gone before it? How do you measure progress?

I think sacking SOD is likely to bring about better results because chance alone will probably see someone in the hot-seat with a better sequence of results. Can it really be much worse?

I think you're insane. Is that a character trait of the cult member? Probably.

I think you need to sit down (and that's being generous).

I think Nibors assumption that you are pretty thick is a fair one! Some time long term problems need long term solutions! It is short termism that has got us millions in debt into the situation we are in now! Most of us realise ny now that things can sometime take longer than expected to implement, and that sacking the manager every 5mins is not the solution. Many Inc myself have seen many positives this season, and felt things were improving. Even with the poor results this season, I feel it was only a matter of time for the improved coaching, scouting and ethos to transcend to the pitch.

[fka dagest]

You have to actually understand how the thing works to make a decision about how to improve it. What's unusual about this?

 

Did you think the same when we sacked McInnes? Millen?

This is what not thinking properly gets you.

And yet, you're the one advocating repeating an action that has helped us to consistently fail and expecting different results.

You've still not explained what it is you think that a new coach (in fact EVERY new coach since you don't know who it is) is going to do to improve things. It's irrational to just leap to the conclusion you've arrived at with no insight other than results.

To be honest I think you're just trolling because the quality of your argument is not usually completely absent like this.

 

Every decision about a manager's future is simply a case of stick or twist.  Do you stick with the man you have or try someone else?  To date sticking with SOD has seen us plummet down the football league.  I don't see anything on the pitch which suggests much progress.  I don't see attacking, fluid football or clean sheets.  I don't see wins.  What I see is the back four tapping it between them before one of them propels it forward to Baldock.  Is that what 10 months' coaching gets you?  If so, why was Lee Johnson's Oldham light years ahead of us in footballing style?  What had he done differently?

 

Sticking with SOD increasingly looked like relegation to league two.  The board could have stuck with him, but like others on here that would be based on nothing more than a leap of faith.  I'll ask you this, if we'd got relegated to league two under SOD would that have been an acceptable component of the long term strategy?  I don't think so and from this season's evidence he left the board with little other choice.

 

All the work in the background will continue.  The academy will grow and young, promising players will be purchased.  The philosophy is right, but the man at the helm was wrong.  We just need to find the right man to go with the right philosophy. Therein lies the risk again.  We need to make a better choice this time.  Who?  How can I possibly say.

 

 As for how the new man can improve things, well he can start by imposing a system on the team.  He can renew self-belief and show more passion.  He can raise expectations.  He can coach them on how to take a corner.  He can use substitutes better or make more effective loan signings.  All of these things were major failings on SOD's part.

 

As for trolling, I'm more than a little guilty.

[fka dagest]

I think Nibors assumption that you are pretty thick is a fair one! Some time long term problems need long term solutions! It is short termism that has got us millions in debt into the situation we are in now! Most of us realise ny now that things can sometime take longer than expected to implement, and that sacking the manager every 5mins is not the solution. Many Inc myself have seen many positives this season, and felt things were improving. Even with the poor results this season, I feel it was only a matter of time for the improved coaching, scouting and ethos to transcend to the pitch.

 

I'm sure that Nibor is more than capable of speaking for himself.  I may be a little thick at times, but at least I'm consistent with my apostrophe use.  Does that make you thick?  No, I'm not as unkind as that.

 

Of course sacking the manager every five minutes isn't the solution, but when faced with a double relegation what choice do you have?   I wanted SOD to work.  I wanted him to turn us into a great, entertaining side, but it wasn't working.

 

Again, imagining a sudden burst of brilliant form in the future is just another leap of faith.  Unfortunately nothing from SOD's 10 month reign leads me to believe that was likely. 

[BS34Red]

I dont think anyone should be slagged off for their take on whats best for the club.

Me personally I thought he wasn't right for us and made my displeasure clear at AG with many others - but it was all with the best intentions for the club.

Now others thought he should have had more time, fine - I don't agree with them but I have no doubt they want the same end result as me which is an upturn in the club's fortunes.

Well done you and many others, what did it feel like to be a part of a special group who had a common interest to oust SOD? Was you in this same group a year ago about Del boy and Millen before that? How long will your group give the new manager til you turn on him?

 

Do you not think voicing your displeasure during a game may actually be counter productive? As a supporter do you not think it would be more productive to actually support the club in a positive manner?

 

Many defeats have been down to individual errors, This errors may well have been caused because players were nervous of making a mistake incase the boo boys turned on them. What is wrong with a simple bit of encouragement?

 

I am not a supporter of Sod, Or Del or Millen or any other manager or player, I am a supporter of Bristol City and whilst any manager or player is here they will recieve my full support until they are no longer here. People need to get over their personal vendettas and question why they actually 'support' Bristol City. I have known it where I have seen fans' be happy that we have lost simply cos it fits into their vendetta against a manager or player, I have also seen them be unhappy when we have actually won cos it doesn't fit into their vendetta.

 

Our fans are the reason why we will always be a lower league club and never progress.

 

I don't think anyone disagrees every manager needs time to impose his vision, but whether we like it or not, that vision has to fit with a forwards trajectory.  We can never accept a long term plan which incorporates a double relegation.  That very real threat is why the board had to move when they did.  They had no choice.

 

I think many could see that slowly we was moving forward. Sod took the job under difficult circumstances, rooted to the bottom, many players on big contracts, a need to slash the budget by what was it 70%? a total unbalanced squad. That was never gonna be fixed over night.

 

We are crying out for stability, I certainly felt SOD was the best option for the long term but the board have lost their bottle and no doubt will revert to trying to get a quick fix, they will never learn. I feel we are in this mess because we keep chopping and changing. We are doing what Rovers normally do and that's just caused them to stand still.

[Ciderhead433]

So what manager are we sacking next season.

[Strictly Obi]

I'm sure that Nibor is more than capable of speaking for himself. I may be a little thick at times, but at least I'm consistent with my apostrophe use. Does that make you thick? No, I'm not as unkind as that.

Of course sacking the manager every five minutes isn't the solution, but when faced with a double relegation what choice do you have? I wanted SOD to work. I wanted him to turn us into a great, entertaining side, but it wasn't working.

Again, imagining a sudden burst of brilliant form in the future is just another leap of faith. Unfortunately nothing from SOD's 10 month reign leads me to believe that was likely.

Applying a long term strategy is not a leap of faith....if you think that strategy is correct. Sacking a manager cos you think the next one will be much better and solve all our problems is! As recent history will testify. How many managers are you happy to see come and go before you realise that perhaps it's not the answer?

[Sleepy1968]

Great post Sir. SOD was a false prophet but he could have been a more successful false prophet with a better team of players. To me, it was the big fat Benny Lenartson scenario revisited where Benny was trying to achieve with what was a poor squad of Championship players.

Benny's schtick was better though...

[East End Old Boy]

Mods, please merge with any other thread of your fancy.

The trouble is, they always do!

[Red-Robbo]

 

Ah the old straw man. I can't recall saying that not winning won't matter.

No, short term focus on results will not bring us success in the long term.

We've been results focused for the last five ******* years whilst going downhill, why do you expect doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING to improve the situation?

There wasn't a gap between what SOD did and said. Quite the reverse actually.

 

All teams are results focused. If they weren't, they'd never win. True football cliche #584 "it's a results business".

 

In terms of what O'Driscoll said and what he delivered, where do I start: why not with providing "attractive passing football". Only 50% of that gem from him is true. Guess which part?

 

His rep is built on supposed excellence as a coach, yet I've never seen less movement off the ball, or more disorganisation defending and taking set pieces.

 

The straw man departeth. We've had the tin man and the cowardly lion (Coppell) before. Let's see if we can get the wizard this time....

[fka dagest]

Applying a long term strategy is not a leap of faith....if you think that strategy is correct. Sacking a manager cos you think the next one will be much better and solve all our problems is! As recent history will testify. How many managers are you happy to see come and go before you realise that perhaps it's not the answer?

 

John from high littleton,

 

The long term strategy is still in place.  Sean O'Driscoll was the manager not the long term strategy.  Listen to John Lansdown on why he was sacked.  The answer is to find the right man who can take us forward under the long term strategy.  SOD had his turn.  The leap of faith I was referring to was the faith that SOD was going to suddenly deliver brilliant results.  

[Northern Red]

So what manager are we sacking next season.

 

The one after the one we'll appoint shortly.

[Aizoon]

So what manager are we sacking next season.

It'll be March. Get your bets on now.

[Portland Bill]

Well done you and many others, what did it feel like to be a part of a special group who had a common interest to oust SOD? Was you in this same group a year ago about Del boy and Millen before that? How long will your group give the new manager til you turn on him?

Do you not think voicing your displeasure during a game may actually be counter productive? As a supporter do you not think it would be more productive to actually support the club in a positive manner?

Many defeats have been down to individual errors, This errors may well have been caused because players were nervous of making a mistake incase the boo boys turned on them. What is wrong with a simple bit of encouragement?

I am not a supporter of Sod, Or Del or Millen or any other manager or player, I am a supporter of Bristol City and whilst any manager or player is here they will recieve my full support until they are no longer here. People need to get over their personal vendettas and question why they actually 'support' Bristol City. I have known it where I have seen fans' be happy that we have lost simply cos it fits into their vendetta against a manager or player, I have also seen them be unhappy when we have actually won cos it doesn't fit into their vendetta.

Our fans are the reason why we will always be a lower league club and never progress.

I think many could see that slowly we was moving forward. Sod took the job under difficult circumstances, rooted to the bottom, many players on big contracts, a need to slash the budget by what was it 70%? a total unbalanced squad. That was never gonna be fixed over night.

We are crying out for stability, I certainly felt SOD was the best option for the long term but the board have lost their bottle and no doubt will revert to trying to get a quick fix, they will never learn. I feel we are in this mess because we keep chopping and changing. We are doing what Rovers normally do and that's just caused them to stand still.

Brilliant post BS34, sums up my feelings,you have said it far better than I could.

[Roger Red Hat]

John from high littleton,

 

The long term strategy is still in place.  Sean O'Driscoll was the manager not the long term strategy.  Listen to John Lansdown on why he was sacked.  The answer is to find the right man who can take us forward under the long term strategy.  SOD had his turn.  The leap of faith I was referring to was the faith that SOD was going to suddenly deliver brilliant results.  

I'm sure JL told SoD " We've got a long term strategy Sean, so we'd like you to suddenly deliver brilliant results". "Whats that you say Sean? A contradiction in terms?"

[Strictly Obi]

John from high littleton,

The long term strategy is still in place. Sean O'Driscoll was the manager not the long term strategy. Listen to John Lansdown on why he was sacked. The answer is to find the right man who can take us forward under the long term strategy. SOD had his turn. The leap of faith I was referring to was the faith that SOD was going to suddenly deliver brilliant results.

So who is the right man? And how will he make a difference?

[Red-Robbo]

I'm sure JL told SoD " We've got a long term strategy Sean, so we'd like you to suddenly deliver brilliant results". "Whats that you say Sean? A contradiction in terms?"

 

Just results would have done. No-one was expecting brilliance this season.

 

The OP is quite correct. The faith placed in O'Driscoll is like a religion to some on here. The dogmatic insistence that things would turn around and "he'd have kept us up" with no evidence for the assertion other than pure faith; the belief that they had witnessed some sort of improvement - despite visual evidence to the contrary; the hanging on his every word - sometimes muddled and contradictory, often just the crashingly obvious - as if they were true nuggets of wisdom. We even have the "how dare you question him in his mysterious ways, he knows so much more than you mere mortals" line.

 

And now the rage of the zealots is turned on the unbelievers. Their prophet has been scorned.

[fka dagest]

I'm sure JL told SoD " We've got a long term strategy Sean, so we'd like you to suddenly deliver brilliant results". "Whats that you say Sean? A contradiction in terms?"

What can I say Rog?  How long is enough?  6 months?  !0 months?  2 years?  5 years?  Nobody asked for sudden brilliant results (nobody has demanded that and the insinuation is out of character for a red-hatted one), which is why we all accepted relegation without much of a whimper.  

 

However, on the flip side nobody expected to be in the relegation zone in December.  It would be interesting to look back at people's expectation at the season's beginning.

 

 

What I will say in defence of the board is that if they'd have let this slide and we'd been relegated under SOD's management/coaching they'd have been crucified.