Questions For The Holy Believers Of The Sod Cult

[bucksred]

10 wins in 11 months. Relegation form. 1 relegation acheived, 2nd a distinct possibility even now SOD has gone.

All for continuity was ditto for McInnes, but worsening results meant he had to go, just as it does for SOD.

What pisses me off is that if you want a manager out, cos of RESULTS, youre slgged off. Unlike one or two posters here who have had axes to grind about various managers, I want the best for City, and relegation is not part of this. SOD is bar Pulis the most negative manager Ive seen here..which for me has played a major part in his losing the job.

Now binning SOD does by no means garantee safety, but getting someone in who is competant, might just ensure safety. SOD didnt, but Millen & McInnes both dead prior to their final stands.

So we now start again. The board need to make the right selection now, because the last four have been piss poor, and the one before that both raised expectations, and at the same time laid the foundation for our current plight. This is colouring peoples views, but I would just say if you dont remember 82, make no mistake if nothing is done, then its possible it could happen again..

[fka dagest]

So who is the right man? And how will he make a difference?

 

I'm not Mystic Meg JFHL.  I'm not pretending I have all the answers.  Like I said it stick or twist.  We've twisted; let's back the new man. And hope for the best because, like you, I don't want chopping and changing every season.

[Atticus]

Just results would have done. No-one was expecting brilliance this season.

 

The OP is quite correct. The faith placed in O'Driscoll is like a religion to some on here. The dogmatic insistence that things would turn around and "he'd have kept us up" with no evidence for the assertion other than pure faith; the belief that they had witnessed some sort of improvement - despite visual evidence to the contrary; the hanging on his every word - sometimes muddled and contradictory, often just the crashingly obvious - as if they were true nuggets of wisdom. We even have the "how dare you question him in his mysterious ways, he knows so much more than you mere mortals" line.

 

And now the rage of the zealots is turned on the unbelievers. Their prophet has been scorned.

 

 

10 wins in 11 months. Relegation form. 1 relegation acheived, 2nd a distinct possibility even now SOD has gone.

All for continuity was ditto for McInnes, but worsening results meant he had to go, just as it does for SOD.

What pisses me off is that if you want a manager out, cos of RESULTS, youre slgged off. Unlike one or two posters here who have had axes to grind about various managers, I want the best for City, and relegation is not part of this. SOD is bar Pulis the most negative manager Ive seen here..which for me has played a major part in his losing the job.

Now binning SOD does by no means garantee safety, but getting someone in who is competant, might just ensure safety. SOD didnt, but Millen & McInnes both dead prior to their final stands.

So we now start again. The board need to make the right selection now, because the last four have been piss poor, and the one before that both raised expectations, and at the same time laid the foundation for our current plight. This is colouring peoples views, but I would just say if you dont remember 82, make no mistake if nothing is done, then its possible it could happen again..

 

Nice to see that some people on here can talk some sense really.

[Roger Red Hat]

What can I say Rog?  How long is enough?  6 months?  !0 months?  2 years?  5 years?  Nobody asked for sudden brilliant results (nobody has demanded that and the insinuation is out of character for a red-hatted one), which is why we all accepted relegation without much of a whimper.  

 

However, on the flip side nobody expected to be in the relegation zone in December.  It would be interesting to look back at people's expectation at the season's beginning.

 

 

What I will say in defence of the board is that if they'd have let this slide and we'd been relegated under SOD's management/coaching they'd have been crucified.

Am I the only one that thought we could well struggle this season, with the implementation of the new strategy, the large turn round of players, and the introduction of youngsters into the team, surely not? 

It seems to me the board are being crucified half way through the season! And rightly so.

[Mr Mosquito]

Am I the only one that thought we could well struggle this season, with the implementation of the new strategy, the large turn round of players, and the introduction of youngsters into the team, surely not? 

It seems to me the board are being crucified half way through the season! And rightly so.

 

It's 1982 revisited and I did post those sentiments 3 months ago. On average they're a team of Div 2 standard players. The current England manager was our manager in 1982 and even he couldn't stop the rot. What is surprising this time around is the fact that the owner is a $billionaire !!!!!!

[bucksred]

Am I the only one that thought we could well struggle this season, with the implementation of the new strategy, the large turn round of players, and the introduction of youngsters into the team, surely not? 

It seems to me the board are being crucified half way through the season! And rightly so.

Yes I thought we'd struggle, but even I didnt expect a battle against relegation to be so bloody persistant. A new face MAY save us, he's got a recent amount of time, the Jan window opening. He may not cos O Driscoll has left a dismal team (one he mostly brought in) a relentless bigging up of opponents, and relentlessly negative interviews..

IF we get the right man, we may look back on this in time as an unfortunate blip...if the wrong one is, it will be civil war. God help us..

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Yes I thought we'd struggle, but even I didnt expect a battle against relegation to be so bloody persistant. A new face MAY save us, he's got a recent amount of time, the Jan window opening. He may not cos O Driscoll has left a dismal team (one he mostly brought in) a relentless bigging up of opponents, and relentlessly negative interviews..

IF we get the right man, we may look back on this in time as an unfortunate blip...if the wrong one is, it will be civil war. God help us..

 

The acid test is this, JET and Reid might invite bids in january, who else in the squad?

 

 

[TRL]

The acid test is this, JET and Reid might invite bids in january, who else in the squad?

Bryan maybe.  Williams has the potential I think, he has started to put in some good performances.  Above that maybe Baldock, even when missing shed loads he still is nearly at double figures before christmas!

 

Away from that, I am not sure there is much that will take the interest of other teams truth be told

[The Kaiser]

I'd be surprised if we got offers for Bobby Reid yet.

[chinapig]

Am I the only one that thought we could well struggle this season, with the implementation of the new strategy, the large turn round of players, and the introduction of youngsters into the team, surely not? 

It seems to me the board are being crucified half way through the season! And rightly so.

SOD said it would be tough but not as tough as this. And he was the man with the plan.

[Aizoon]

SOD said it would be tough but not as tough as this. And he was the man with the plan.

Well, we've tried plans. Let's go for clueless now, shall we?

[Red-Robbo]

Well, we've tried plans. Let's go for clueless now, shall we?

 

No go. He's at Crystal Palace.... 

[marshy]

Am I the only one that thought we could well struggle this season, with the implementation of the new strategy, the large turn round of players, and the introduction of youngsters into the team, surely not? 

It seems to me the board are being crucified half way through the season! And rightly so.

 

A couple of seasons back, following the departures of Caulker and Bikey, if we'd spent as much as we could have afforded on a decent centre back and centre midfield, instead of bringing in lots and lots of distinctly average players, none of this upheaval would have happened. Just my opinion, quality over quantity.

[biggythecity]

Well said Dave,I always find it strange when "some" fans slag off other fans for supporting the manager and club!!

Except for Pulis I've supported every manager,

We we're here 12 months ago,same people slagging DM , I would bet that the same Millen,DM and SOD slaggers will be slagging the new manager within 6 months!

+1 never a truer word spoken on here!!also the same ones who got fed up with Johnson

[Esmond Million's Bung]

+1 never a truer word spoken on here!!also the same ones who got fed up with Johnson

 

You were doing well up to Johnson, which is another that Bill didn't really support.

 

 

[CiderJar]

So we now start again. The board need to make the right selection now, because the last four have been piss poor, and the one before that both raised expectations, and at the same time laid the foundation for our current plight. This is colouring peoples views, but I would just say if you dont remember 82, make no mistake if nothing is done, then its possible it could happen again..

I was kind of with you until this point. The "right" selection, as you put it, is almost inevitably the expensive one. The rules of FFP are in place to avoid 1982 happening to ANY team again. A football club can no longer spend beyond its' means to get the right man or the right team. This means that talented coaches like McInnes and O'Driscoll are forced to try to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Inevitably they will fail until the team is playing within their means and if that means at the third fourth or fifth tier of English football then that is the way it has to be. Getting the right man and the right team, for instant success is exactly what will bring about the conditions that led to 1982. Building from the bottom up will avoid 1982, but may well mean limited on field success until the business is built and becomes self-sufficient. So all of you calling for instant success have a think, you are asking for us to play beyond our means and go out of business. Some of us will follow Bristol City to the Conference and back if we have to. I hope we don't have to, but I nearly lost the club I had supported for 7 yeas in 1982, 31 years on I'd rather watch City play in the Downs League than suffer that again.

[Portland Bill]

You were doing well up to Johnson, which is another that Bill didn't really support.

Untrue Esmond,and you know it.

I supported him all the way until he lost the plot.

Unlike yourself, who hasn't supported one City manager in all the time you have been on here.

[chinapig]

Well, we've tried plans. Let's go for clueless now, shall we?

It is part of the cult of modern management that you focus all your attention on processes and not on outcomes. I've seen it in both public and private sectors. Business plans, project plans, risk registers, Lean and all the paraphernalia. Everybody focuses on the ticking the boxes and forgets what the actual purpose is. When you lose sight of the goal and planning becomes the purpose in itself you usually end up with failure.

 

This seemed to be the kind thinking behind SOD's slightly misrepresented "results don't matter" remarks ie in the short term you may need to focus on whether or not the players are getting better at implementing the plan but when they got it results would improve. It wasn't happening though. We will never know if it might have suddenly clicked but there were insufficient signs that it would. It may turn out of course to be down to the players. No point being a great planner though if your plan doesn't work. A case of the operation was a great success but the patient died.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Untrue Esmond,and you know it.

I supported him all the way until he lost the plot.

Unlike yourself, who hasn't supported one City manager in all the time you have been on here.

 

Untrue Bill and you know it.

I supported DMC all the way until it was obvious to him that the players he had been unduly loyal to were actually royally letting him down every week.

 

 

[Portland Bill]

Untrue Bill and you know it.

I supported DMC all the way until it was obvious to him that the players he had been unduly loyal to were actually royally letting him down every week.

You started it..........

[Aizoon]

It is part of the cult of modern management that you focus all your attention on processes and not on outcomes. I've seen it in both public and private sectors. Business plans, project plans, risk registers, Lean and all the paraphernalia. Everybody focuses on the ticking the boxes and forgets what the actual purpose is. When you lose sight of the goal and planning becomes the purpose in itself you usually end up with failure.

This seemed to be the kind thinking behind SOD's slightly misrepresented "results don't matter" remarks ie in the short term you may need to focus on whether or not the players are getting better at implementing the plan but when they got it results would improve. It wasn't happening though. We will never know if it might have suddenly clicked but there were insufficient signs that it would. It may turn out of course to be down to the players. No point being a great planner though if your plan doesn't work. A case of the operation was a great success but the patient died.

The patient was unwell but still fighting. The funeral will now be in April.

[Strictly Obi]

You were doing well up to Johnson, which is another that Bill didn't really support.

Oh come on Johnson had to go, we were 14th in the cc. I mean how crap is that? A club our size. And we've never looked back!

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

 

 

Not devotion, and Ashton Gate is my church.  I'm just backing the man in charge, as I've done with every manager.

You, however, have never had anything positive to say about anyone.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us with your wisdom - who do YOU want in charge???  And how long will you give him????

How heartening to see young "Harry" retaining a good deal of optimism, here, in these dark and troubling times. And hopefully not any less hopeful following today's result...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Oh come on Johnson had to go, we were 14th in the cc. I mean how crap is that? A club our size. And we've never looked back!

 

I know and relentlessly beating up players, I mean who would ever want to play for him a second time, Mcindoe, Mcallister, Edwards, Jevons, Gavin Williams, Andy Williams or the countless loaners who sign up for a second period?, OMG I nearly forgot the extremely fragile Liam Fontaine 3 times.

 

 

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

It is part of the cult of modern management that you focus all your attention on processes and not on outcomes. I've seen it in both public and private sectors. Business plans, project plans, risk registers, Lean and all the paraphernalia. Everybody focuses on the ticking the boxes and forgets what the actual purpose is. When you lose sight of the goal and planning becomes the purpose in itself you usually end up with failure.

 

This seemed to be the kind thinking behind SOD's slightly misrepresented "results don't matter" remarks ie in the short term you may need to focus on whether or not the players are getting better at implementing the plan but when they got it results would improve. It wasn't happening though. We will never know if it might have suddenly clicked but there were insufficient signs that it would. It may turn out of course to be down to the players. No point being a great planner though if your plan doesn't work. A case of the operation was a great success but the patient died.

To be fair to SOd (I'm daft like that!) all the reluctance to speak of winning and such like, odd as it seemed, is standard sport psychology speak and theory, as used by Dave Brailsford and the British Olympic cycling team. The same approach - separate out what you can directly control and influence(how you train and prepare, selection, substitution, tactics, what you say to the bloke from radio briss) from what you can't (refereeing decisions, opponents strengths, bounce of the ball, direction of wind, fate, lady luck, what the bloke from radio briss will ask you - although he had a good go at the last) - or way of thinking about being successful, if less successful in implementing it. He was naive, though, not to expect people to go, "WTF?!" when he declined to look at the table, or discuss winning and losing, in the face of relegation. Always going to set you at odds with swathes of your own punters, that,

[BS34Red]

To be fair to SOd (I'm daft like that!) all the reluctance to speak of winning and such like, odd as it seemed, is standard sport psychology speak and theory, as used by Dave Brailsford and the British Olympic cycling team. The same approach - separate out what you can directly control and influence(how you train and prepare, selection, substitution, tactics, what you say to the bloke from radio briss) from what you can't (refereeing decisions, opponents strengths, bounce of the ball, direction of wind, fate, lady luck, what the bloke from radio briss will ask you - although he had a good go at the last) - or way of thinking about being successful, if less successful in implementing it. He was naive, though, not to expect people to go, "WTF?!" when he declined to look at the table, or discuss winning and losing, in the face of relegation. Always going to set you at odds with swathes of your own punters, that,

tbh many people failed to understand the comments about not looking at the time bit I can understand where Sod is coming from, I very rarely look at the table, I know we're in the crap I don't need to look at the table to know that, the table doesn't get decided until may so what really is the point in looking at it now? Come april/may yes but now what's the actual point?

[Aizoon]

tbh many people failed to understand the comments about not looking at the time bit I can understand where Sod is coming from, I very rarely look at the table, I know we're in the crap I don't need to look at the table to know that, the table doesn't get decided until may so what really is the point in looking at it now? Come april/may yes but now what's the actual point?

Good points - try explaining them to our Board

[Esmond Million's Bung]

tbh many people failed to understand the comments about not looking at the time bit I can understand where Sod is coming from, I very rarely look at the table, I know we're in the crap I don't need to look at the table to know that, the table doesn't get decided until may so what really is the point in looking at it now? Come april/may yes but now what's the actual point?

 

A bit like a lard arse not looking at scales, but plenty of time looking in the fridge.

 

One question though, you don't think it helpful knowing whether the next team you are playing are top or bottom of the league?

 

 

[The Right Honourable Les Q]

tbh many people failed to understand the comments about not looking at the time bit I can understand where Sod is coming from, I very rarely look at the table, I know we're in the crap I don't need to look at the table to know that, the table doesn't get decided until may so what really is the point in looking at it now? Come april/may yes but now what's the actual point?

He was foolish to not expect a strong reaction, and to begin to try to "educate" us in a relegation "fight" in which we got knocked out well before the final round.

But, yes, looking at the table achieves nothing. It doesn't change how he prepares for the next game. Whether we are top, midtable, or bottom, the training and prep isn't altered because of league position. Try "educating" people about this next time you are nestled comfortably in midtable in April, Sean. People might be more ready to "listen"

[chinapig]

The patient was unwell but still fighting. The funeral will now be in April.

Nice one, and you may well be right about the funeral. Going down fighting is an admirable quality, but only up to a point. My biggest concern in fact is that it will transpire that the players aren't capable of any more than fighting but still losing, whoever the manager is. But I still maintain that once you get into the mindset that whatever happens is evidence that your plan is working, and it becomes an article of faith that it will come off in the nick of time if only you stick to your guns, you close off any possibility of doing things differently, at least until it is too late. That looked like the way it was going I felt.