On Way Home. Views from Watford game (Merged)

[Bobby kellard hero]

Cold,wet and wish I hadn't bothered.shows why we are where we are in the league.

[ChippenhamRed]

Absolute rubbish. Our finishing was poor but aside from that there wasn't much between the sides. First 20 minutes especially we played some good stuff. Watford had a touch more quality and did a good job of shutting the game down once it went to 2-0.

No shame in tonight's performance.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Absolute rubbish. Our finishing was poor but aside from that there wasn't much between the sides. First 20 minutes especially we played some good stuff. Watford had a touch more quality and did a good job of shutting the game down once it went to 2-0.

No shame in tonight's performance.

 

I think you might have missed a question mark after 'rubbish'. Completely changes the tone

[Harry]

I'm on my way back too and here's my take.

First 20 mins we were bang up for it and should have taken our opportunities when on top. Baldock once again fluffed a glorious chance that would have had Watford rocked and probably dispirited. Different game if that goes in.

After 20, Watford grew into it, then we had a good spell just before half time.

In fairness to them, they came out 2nd half all guns blazing and I think took us by surprise and they suddenly had desire, tempo, ability. We got outplayed for a good 20 mins.

After going 2 down we needed to change something, so I was disappointed with the substitutions. 3 subs but no change of shape or tactics. We had 3 centre backs plus Pack all hanging about in our half when there was no need. We ought to have changed something. Whether going 2 up top, 4 at the back, 3-4-3 or something. Seemed as if we just gave up really.

Flint played well. Osborne ok. Fonts poor. That's not bashing him for the sake of it, he just seems clueless at times in the back 3 as to where he should be. At one point, their man was running toward him and Fonts showed him INSIDE toward the box for an easy shot. No confidence and no clue. Sorry.

Midfield 3 got outplayed for long periods and were beaten to almost every 2nd ball. Bryan was poor. Maloney anonymous for the most part. Jet was Jet. Baldock should have scored.

Overall, what promised to be a good day out after 20 mins, turned into a damp squib.

[JamesBCFC]

I guess I'd just echo what Harry and chippenham red have said, first half we matched Watford overall but in the second half they came out and showed why they are championship and we are league 1, the last 20 mins were frustrating as we just seemed to give up instead of trying to get back into the game, our support today was great, I think I heard the Watford 3 times in the whole game and the bright side is we don't have a stuffing at the ethiad to worry about

[pikeysrobins]

I'm on my way back too and here's my take.

First 20 mins we were bang up for it and should have taken our opportunities when on top. Baldock once again fluffed a glorious chance that would have had Watford rocked and probably dispirited. Different game if that goes in.

After 20, Watford grew into it, then we had a good spell just before half time.

In fairness to them, they came out 2nd half all guns blazing and I think took us by surprise and they suddenly had desire, tempo, ability. We got outplayed for a good 20 mins.

After going 2 down we needed to change something, so I was disappointed with the substitutions. 3 subs but no change of shape or tactics. We had 3 centre backs plus Pack all hanging about in our half when there was no need. We ought to have changed something. Whether going 2 up top, 4 at the back, 3-4-3 or something. Seemed as if we just gave up really.

Flint played well. Osborne ok. Fonts poor. That's not bashing him for the sake of it, he just seems clueless at times in the back 3 as to where he should be. At one point, their man was running toward him and Fonts showed him INSIDE toward the box for an easy shot. No confidence and no clue. Sorry.

Midfield 3 got outplayed for long periods and were beaten to almost every 2nd ball. Bryan was poor. Maloney anonymous for the most part. Jet was Jet. Baldock should have scored.

Overall, what promised to be a good day out after 20 mins, turned into a damp squib.

agree with all this except that osbourne was under par for me. Thought Pack had a good game . He and flint seemed the only ones really up for it tonight.

[kelly]

on the coach on way back home and theres a lovely bit of bromance going on. two kiddies in front of me asleep resting on each others heads. sweet dreams...

[HoldenBall]

Cold,wet and wish I hadn't bothered.shows why we are where we are in the league.

What were you expecting? Us to stroll 5-0 and skip to the Etihad? Watford man for man are a better team than us

[Kingswoodactor]

agree with all this except that osbourne was under par for me. Thought Pack had a good game . He and flint seemed the only ones really up for it tonight.

Osbourne was average, Flint did really well and Pack for me was huffing and puffing without any real end product. He does sometimes put other players under unnecessary pressure by playing the wrong pass at the wrong time. All in all it was a frustrating night as I thought Watford were there for the taking in the first 20, and had Sammy put that chance away it would have been interesting.

[MATT BCFC]

They are a good side and think they will end the season well. We played well in parts and missed some good chances. First goal was soft and a big kick in the teeth.

Cunningham, gillet, barnett and wagstaff to come back fresh for Saturday confident we can get a good result then.

[ChippenhamRed]

I think you might have missed a question mark after 'rubbish'. Completely changes the tone

Fair point jungle although to be pulled up for my grammar compared to some on here is a little hard to take! To be absolutely clear I was of course referring to the OP and not the performance!

[Taylor10]

First 20 mins we were great but very poor after. Watford are a better side than us so it's important not to get too down. Yes Baldock missed another absolute sitter but we gave away two piss poor goals. The first was soft and the second was our own doing. Pack over hitting a pass out of play when under absolutely no pressure inside our half was absolutely criminal I'm afraid. Not helped by Fontaine who as per usual wasn't on his toes. We then basically let McGugan walk through.

I can accept being beaten by the better side but what I can't accept was our lack of fight and desire second half. It was very much like an SOD performance and we had absolutely no ideas. The likes of Bryan, Moloney and Fontaine can have no complaints when they are back on the bench Saturday.

Flint and Marv easily our best two players.

[Kid in the Riot]

First 20 mins we were great but very poor after. Watford are a better side than us so it's important not to get too down. Yes Baldock missed another absolute sitter but we gave away two piss poor goals. The first was soft and the second was our own doing. Pack over hitting a pass out of play when under absolutely no pressure inside our half was absolutely criminal I'm afraid. Not helped by Fontaine who as per usual wasn't on his toes. We then basically let McGugan walk through.

I can accept being beaten by the better side but what I can't accept was our lack of fight and desire second half. It was very much like an SOD performance and we had absolutely no ideas. The likes of Bryan, Moloney and Fontaine can have no complaints when they are back on the bench Saturday.

Flint and Marv easily our best two players.

 

Based on yours and Harry's comments it sounds to me like we basically did give up and SC must have had one eye on Saturday's game which we could really do with winning, especially given the very tough away games that follow. Can't really blame SC for that, but obviously it's very frustrating for the supporters in attendance.

 

Worth bearing in mind that Gillett and Barnett were cup tied and Cunningham, Williams and Wagstaff all missed out (I'm assuming saving them for Sat). So maybe 4 of those 5 will start v MK and the other (Barnett) likely involved too.

 

Glad to hear Flint playing well again, and I really hope Fontaine is not involved too much between now and the end of the season.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

Absolute rubbish. Our finishing was poor but aside from that there wasn't much between the sides. First 20 minutes especially we played some good stuff. Watford had a touch more quality and did a good job of shutting the game down once it went to 2-0.

No shame in tonight's performance.

Agreed. If you asked an outsider which team was a division higher based in the first 15-20 minutes they would have said city hands down. Watford had some decent chances but so did city (baldock's one on one, Reid's shot over the bar etc).

[Dunc]

I confess that last night was the first game I've been to this season (working in London and playing on weekends). The upside is I've got a relatively impartial view...

As others (and SC have said) if we'd taken our chances in the first half it could have been a different game. Baldock made a good run early on but seemed to rush the finish and their keeper made a good save. Couldn't see their goal clearly as it was up the other end of the pitch, but it looked scrappy. One the stroke of half time a good couple of passes put Marv in behind and he pulled it back to Bobby, only to hit over on the volley from eight yards under pressure.

Second half we rarely threatened their third, let alone goal. Both teams seemed to be set up quite defensively, though Watford had a few decent chances, mostly through questionable defending. McGugan's goal came when Deeney was far too strong for Fonts, played him in and he was a good yard faster than (I think) Marv, Bryan and Flint. Being critical Osborne could have come across faster too, but would have left an obvious square ball for a one on one.

I thought second half SC got his tactics wrong. Both teams were content in playing out the 2-0, using with the same formation, but Watford just doing it better than us. Changes came late and were like-for-like swaps with no change in shape. We never looked like getting back in the game once they'd scored their second it looked like everyone was just going through the motions.

Anyway, onto player ratings:

7 out of 10:

Marv - Our MOM for me. Put himself about and showed real desire. Definetely offers a lot at L1 level... hoping he'll take a (serious) wage cut

Bobby - Main creative spark. Couple of good runs which could have come off on another day, always looking to be postive

Parish - Saved two or three good chances and the scoreline could have been a lot worse. Kicking was hit and miss though

6 out of 10:

Malony - Solid but average

Osborne - Solid but average

Flint - Good in the air with a couple of decent tackles

5 (or less) out of 10:

Fonts - Want him to rediscover form but still looks weak for a centre half. Couple of half decent balls forward but a couple of very wayward passes too

JET - An off day. Couple of runs but other than that offered little

Baldock - Ran hard, missed his chance, didn't really get in the game

Bryan - Won his headers but didn't ever really attack their fullback. Got into a couple of crossing positions but poor delivery. Defensively got in the right positions but hasn't got a defender's instinct and was easily caught out by simple balls in behind him

Pack - Flattered to deceive. Regularly dropped (very) deep to pick the ball up from Parish or defenders but rarely played a forward pass. Played it back to defenders under pressure a few times. Heading was poor and looked lightweight in tackles. Would rather see Elliott in front of the back four with Gillett pushed on a bit.

Best bit was the singing... "let's pretend we scored a goal" got the biggest cheer in the whole match! Anyway, result could be a blessing in disguise so we can focus on the league not Man City. COYR

[B1ackbird]

Yes we scored four imaginary goals....

Two nill..and you ****** it up

[MarcusX]

Well, I don't really know how to feel.

 

The positive side of me wants to say:

 

- First 20 minutes, we were the better side. Much better. We had a lot of the ball, though we didn't create too many chances. Had Baldock put away his one on one it may have been a completely different game.

 

- First half in general we played some good football. Some neat one touch passing, and some forward thinking not just knocking it around the back four.

 

- JET looked good on the ball. His feet are so quick, and one pass he made down the right hand side, I think to Maloney, was just pure class. Somehow got it between 2 players, I think with a backheel.

 

- We looked quite good at the back. Flint was mopping things up quite well and all three seemed to be throwing themselves in front of the ball to make blocks.

 

- Bobby Reid and Marvin Elliott ran their socks off. Both put in a shift although Reid still looks a little lightweight for me in the middle.

 

- Pack always seemed to want to the ball off the defence, and also won his fair share of headers and tackles in the middle.

 

- Parish never really looked troubled (though second half that was down to some woeful finishing)

 

However, the negatives:

 

- 2-0 flattered us on that second half showing. If it wasn't for some woeful finishing, it could have been 4/5. They missed 2 one on ones for example, that the striker put completely wide!

 

- Fontaine, looked like a Rabbit caught in headlights second half. Every time a player ran at him he was far too hesitant to put a tackle in. He didn't have a good second half at all, and he completely mis controlled a basic pass under no pressure to give Watford a throw that directly led to their second goal.

 

- Osbourne should have done more for the second goal, he hasn't even attempted to shut down the striker.

 

- Second half our passing had no intent at all, especially after the second goal. There was no movement, infront and all we could do was knock it around the back four / keeper then eventually a long ball or a mis control and possession was turned over.

 

- JET. That age old argument. First half he looked alright, second half he was just useless. We are defending with 10 men half the time. He does very little closing down or tracking of men and left his team mates exposed on several occasions last night.

 

 

Its a little unfair to judge, considering we were playing a decent championship team, however that was my first game under the Cotterill reign, and after the first 20 minutes, we didn't look any different to any of the games I've seen under SOD. There were some positives for sure, but a lot of negatives that we've had all season still exist.

 

 

[MarcusX]

One positive I've missed. Our support was excellent last night. I hope for those listening in that it came across as good as it actually was.

 

Watford on the other hand, 2-0 and still couldn't hear a thing from them. Probably the worst home support I've experienced.

[MarcusX]

What were you expecting? Us to stroll 5-0 and skip to the Etihad? Watford man for man are a better team than us

 

Personally I expected a fight. Second half it was still 1-0 and ok granted Watford came out at us but we rolled over and let them.

[djb6162]

My view on last night 

 

Great 25 mins, we really did pass the ball around well in that opening period.

Watford were no match for us during that time and its a shame that Sam didn't put his chance away, really would have become interesting.

Then came the mystery for me, you could see us visibly starting to drop deeper, for no reason, Watford were not playing well.

I sensed the moment was key, and for me Maloney and Bryan were crucial.

Joe lacked the confidence to take on his full back and Maloney lacks the pace and skill.

Because of that they sat back more than Greg and Scott would have done.

We missed both last night especially the work rate of Scott.

It was almost 5 across the back in the old sense, and of course Marv tried his best, but the inevitable flow of possession drifted towards Watford.

Pack and Reid did fine, but they were by now on the back foot and lacked options.

 

Because of the deeper formation of the back 5, Jet got drawn into a wider position and the gap between him and Sam was back to the bad old days.

SC wants them to play closer together and that didn't happen last night.

Finally i though the subs were made 10 mins too late at least.

We were 2-0 down after 65mins, and although the subs were forthcoming it was too late.

 

PS at 2-0 down i would have left Sam on and taken Osborne off and gone for it.

 

The crowd wanted it, but in the end i felt we went out with a whimper.

On a positive, i feel we were more then a match for Watford over 155 minutes of a 180 minute contest

[phantom]

Thank you for the feedback, all I would add in the league games we have definately improved under SC.

Yeah we are still far from being the finished article but we are going in the right direction.

One thing to remember is that it took what is essentially a decent Championship side 180 minutes to beat us.

How many sides at "our level" would beat Watford at their ground?

[MarcusX]

Thank you for the feedback, all I would add in the league games we have definately improved under SC.

Yeah we are still far from being the finished article but we are going in the right direction.

One thing to remember is that it took what is essentially a decent Championship side 180 minutes to beat us.

How many sides at "our level" would beat Watford at their ground?

 

That's a fair point, and for 110 minutes of those 180 it sounds / looks like we held our own (I wasn't at the home game)

 

This wasn't meant as a bashing SC post, or praising SOD or any combination, was purely my view from last night from someone who doesn't get to many games due to my own playing commitments.

 

The league is more important, and this next month could be very indicative as to where we will finish this season. If we could play for 90 minutes like we did for the first 20, and last 10 of the first half last night then we should enjoy a good end to the season. At least it looks and sounds like we are willing to fight this year

[EDoubleD]

Biggest thing for me was how we lacked positivity. We played some nice football, and spread the ball around the back rather than lump it forwards, but when Osborne, pack or fonts got the ball with space in front they choose to pass it straight away to someone who was marked, rather then drive into the space to bring some of their defenders out to close them down. Watford did this brilliantly, and gave them an extra man going forward, but with 3 at the back had enough cover.

I can see we're improving, just want more positive play rather than sitting back or not being willing to gamble going forward

We also struggled to break them down when they sat back. Missed gillet I think with his runs forward. Interesting to see who Cotterill brings in for the weekend. Need some creativity.

[The Exiled Robin]

I'm on my way back too and here's my take.

First 20 mins we were bang up for it and should have taken our opportunities when on top. Baldock once again fluffed a glorious chance that would have had Watford rocked and probably dispirited. Different game if that goes in.

After 20, Watford grew into it, then we had a good spell just before half time.

In fairness to them, they came out 2nd half all guns blazing and I think took us by surprise and they suddenly had desire, tempo, ability. We got outplayed for a good 20 mins.

After going 2 down we needed to change something, so I was disappointed with the substitutions. 3 subs but no change of shape or tactics. We had 3 centre backs plus Pack all hanging about in our half when there was no need. We ought to have changed something. Whether going 2 up top, 4 at the back, 3-4-3 or something. Seemed as if we just gave up really.

Flint played well. Osborne ok. Fonts poor. That's not bashing him for the sake of it, he just seems clueless at times in the back 3 as to where he should be. At one point, their man was running toward him and Fonts showed him INSIDE toward the box for an easy shot. No confidence and no clue. Sorry.

Midfield 3 got outplayed for long periods and were beaten to almost every 2nd ball. Bryan was poor. Maloney anonymous for the most part. Jet was Jet. Baldock should have scored.

Overall, what promised to be a good day out after 20 mins, turned into a damp squib.

 

Pretty much agree wit this synospis of the match, I'm not one who bashes Fonts and actually think he could stick around and be a good player for us again but he looked tentative last night.  Whilst Flint had a generally OK game I felt for the second goal and at least 2 other occasions they fashioned shooting opportunities it was due to his hanging back and not committing to go and clear a ball/tackle.  He was the covering defender when the guy got in to set up the second, but just stood off and stood off, seemingly more concerned with giving away a foul or losing position than actually going to stop the run.

 

I was disappointed we didn't just try 'something' with 20 minutes to go. Cotts was sitting down which surprised me and as we weren't getting anywhere why not stick Flint up-front and knock a few long balls in, let Baldock/Burns/Reid look for flick ons and knock downs - a very non-cuptie approach for me which was a shame

[cider-manc]

Biggest thing for me was how we lacked positivity. We played some nice football, and spread the ball around the back rather than lump it forwards, but when Osborne, pack or fonts got the ball with space in front they choose to pass it straight away to someone who was marked, rather then drive into the space to bring some of their defenders out to close them down. Watford did this brilliantly, and gave them an extra man going forward, but with 3 at the back had enough cover.

 

 

This is where I think we really miss Williams when he doesn't play - He gets his head up and moves forward into space (He very nearly scored goal of the season doing it in a previous game!)

 

Wasn't at the game last night so not going to comment too much on anything else but well done to all the travelling support you looked and sounded brilliant. 

[bearded_red]

Would have to echo the majority of people on here.

 

- Better team for 20 minutes, but needed to make our pressure pay.

- Baldock should have scored.

- Watford then got into the game, but we were still fine and didn't deserve to be going in behind at half time.

- Pretty much outplayed second half, certainly after the second goal went in.

- Because we were struggling to get into the game second half we weren't providing JET with any service which means he comes deep to try and look for the ball which ends up with Baldock isolated and we look rather toothless.

- Disappointed we didn't try something and have a go late on. Three like for like subs were never going to achieve a miraculous turn around and even something like Flint upfront would have at least asked a few questions.

- Thought Marv played well.

- Both wing backs were pretty poor and we missed Wagstaff and Cunningham.

 

Should be mentioned that it took until the fourth half of football against them for Watford to make their advantage in quality evident.

[hortonred]

Based on yours and Harry's comments it sounds to me like we basically did give up and SC must have had one eye on Saturday's game which we could really do with winning, especially given the very tough away games that follow. Can't really blame SC for that, but obviously it's very frustrating for the supporters in attendance.

 

Worth bearing in mind that Gillett and Barnett were cup tied and Cunningham, Williams and Wagstaff all missed out (I'm assuming saving them for Sat). So maybe 4 of those 5 will start v MK and the other (Barnett) likely involved too.

 

Glad to hear Flint playing well again, and I really hope Fontaine is not involved too much between now and the end of the season.

It' hardly a surprise that Fontaine let the team down .He is a past master and particularly when the going gets tough

[Dorset_Cider]

Absolute rubbish. Our finishing was poor but aside from that there wasn't much between the sides. First 20 minutes especially we played some good stuff. Watford had a touch more quality and did a good job of shutting the game down once it went to 2-0.

No shame in tonight's performance.

 

Would point out that the game is 90mins + any stoppage time...... but hey higher league team ...... if that was us in recent years we'd still have lost?