Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 SC was at pains to tell us after the Wolves game that we'll continue to play the ball out of defence despite the errors made on Saturday that directly led to the second goal certainly and perhaps the first too. He talked about the defenders and Parish being able to play the ball on the deck would "add value to them" and make them improve and be able to play at a higher level. To be honest it was like listening to SOD all over again as this was his ethos. He even mentioned "adding value" to players in the same way SC did. Now this is all very well and good in theory but as SOD found out to his cost, at this moment in time we simply do not have the players to do this successfully. SC said he didn't bother to watch DVDs of our games this season before he joined. Maybe he should, because he'd see a clear difference in our style of play for the first 10/11 games of the season when we knocked it about on the floor nicely but yielded a poor return in results versus "post-Carlisle" when we began playing a much more ugly, direct style (that SOD was roundly berated for) but that did get us more points on the board. Now, SC has brought in Osbourne and Al Abd neither of whom are ball playing defenders - they are both more comfortable "getting rid". Therefore, my questions are: Why is SC persisting with a tactic that has already failed this season? Is he even aware that this tactic did not work earlier in the season? He has not signed players that are likely to be able to execute this tactic, so why persist/try it? This for me outlines why it was a mistake to sack SOD so soon. We are basically going through the same process SOD was earlier in the season with a new manager. SOD had worked out our deficiencies, changed the style of play (which whilst wasn't pretty was beginning to work) and had a striker lined up to sign. Now, we have SC reassessing the squad and making changes that thus far have not improved results one bit. No matter what he's spouted so far SC has been a 442 "direct style" manager throughout his career and I just wonder what angle he's trying to work with all this passing style stuff. How long before he realises the limitations of our back four and reverts to going long? If he does persist with allowing the players and keeper to pass the ball then we'd better hope they improve quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 No idea where this myth that post Carlisle we changed style has come from, it was the same throughout under SOD. Don't recall us knocking it round nicely against Shrewsbury or Colchester! All about our ability to defend now, in my option, El-Abd needs to get up to speed quickly as clean sheets are our only chance of staying up. I am concerned that SOD (and Burt) have left us with 2 poor keepers and it may be we need a temporary boost there to aid us in our attempt to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I watched people like Alba, Alves and Pique doing this last night so why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I watched people like Alba, Alves and Pique doing this last night so why can't we? Because they're good footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Judging by your post, SC is trying to be trendy ala Roberto Martinez. In league 1, with limited, confidence devoid players. The board, imo, do not consider footballing philosophy or strategy whilst making footballing decisions. They just roll dice. SOD is gone, let it go man. No doubt SC will be replaced with another randomised choice soon as we go one win in 28! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!james Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Disagree regarding El -Adb, reading the numerous posts and topics about him on the Brighton forums many of them mentioned how he was one of the most transformed players at the club and how Poyet had changed him from a lump it type centre back to a ball player, who is comfortable on the ball. Will dig out some quotes when I can, I'm aware we are yet to see this side of him - although against mk dons it was clear he was more than comfortable on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think we're all forgetting that we're Bristol City, and every player that comes to us with potential/pedigree ends up being shite for us! Apart from Maynard. James, Stewart, Hunt, Woolford, Haynes, Fielding, John, Agyemang, Clarkson, McManus, Kilkenny, Mark Wilson, Danny Rose, Bolasie... All players that came to us as an 'exciting' signing/ a well known player that ended up being crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 No idea where this myth that post Carlisle we changed style has come from, it was the same throughout under SOD. Don't recall us knocking it round nicely against Shrewsbury or Colchester! All about our ability to defend now, in my option, El-Abd needs to get up to speed quickly as clean sheets are our only chance of staying up. I am concerned that SOD (and Burt) have left us with 2 poor keepers and it may be we need a temporary boost there to aid us in our attempt to survive. Yep, the reason Arsenal are top of the Prem is because they have the most clean sheets (11). We have the least (2) in League One. We did not lump it throughout SOD's entire reign, no idea where you've got that from! After the "home truths" HT team talk at Carlisle something changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Because they're good footballers. A bit too subtle for OTIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Osborne is far from a hoofer. You do have a habit of quoting often nonsensical opinion as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Osborne is far from a hoofer. You do have a habit of quoting often nonsensical opinion as fact. He's even further from being a RWB, mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yep, the reason Arsenal are top of the Prem is because they have the most clean sheets (11). We have the least (2) in League One. We did not lump it throughout SOD's entire reign, no idea where you've got that from! After the "home truths" HT team talk at Carlisle something changed... apart form the 8 or so long balls to Baldock every single game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!james Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 apart form the 8 or so long balls to Baldock every single game Those were just the ones from Flint in the first 10 mins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 apart form the 8 or so long balls to Baldock every single game Oh, unquestionably. And those would've mostly been Flint when put under pressure. But then 8 long balls over 90 mins isn't very many is it? A team will always play some long balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yes I thought those remarks from Cotts were the antithesis of what he is about. I am in no position to judge from afar but it seems from some posters we are playing better football since he has arrived. The one thing that it may simply be down to and an all important point is that Cotts perhaps deliberately keeps his instructions simple whereas SO'D, perhaps, treated his players as if they had larger brains and the capacity to take it all in far more than they did. For me, this is what football is all about.... communicating what you want in a way that gives optimum effect. Be interesting to see the average IQ of the Cherry and Donny player compared to Florist and City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 They played the ball out from the back very neatly when I saw them play at Bradford the other week. I was quite worried about them giving the ball away in a bad position, though, and perhaps there was an element of luck in the fact that they didn't. The limitations as I saw them weren't in the back 3 (who simply gave the ball to Pack to deal with most of the time) but the lack of movement from forward players and Pack not really being the most effective distributor of the ball. Even at the top level it's rarely the job of a defender to initiate an attack with a good pass. They give it to a midfielder to create something, which is where we still struggle somewhat. It's therefore not that important whether or not Osbourne and El Abd can pass, because so long as they can play a 10 yard ball into midfield (which you'd really, really hope they could manage) it isn't important for a team that plays out from the back. It is important, however, to have movement up front and a midfielder who will show for the ball, hold the ball, and use the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 SC was at pains to tell us after the Wolves game that we'll continue to play the ball out of defence despite the errors made on Saturday that directly led to the second goal certainly and perhaps the first too. He talked about the defenders and Parish being able to play the ball on the deck would "add value to them" and make them improve and be able to play at a higher level. To be honest it was like listening to SOD all over again as this was his ethos. He even mentioned "adding value" to players in the same way SC did. Now this is all very well and good in theory but as SOD found out to his cost, at this moment in time we simply do not have the players to do this successfully. SC said he didn't bother to watch DVDs of our games this season before he joined. Maybe he should, because he'd see a clear difference in our style of play for the first 10/11 games of the season when we knocked it about on the floor nicely but yielded a poor return in results versus "post-Carlisle" when we began playing a much more ugly, direct style (that SOD was roundly berated for) but that did get us more points on the board. Now, SC has brought in Osbourne and Al Abd neither of whom are ball playing defenders - they are both more comfortable "getting rid". Therefore, my questions are: Why is SC persisting with a tactic that has already failed this season? Is he even aware that this tactic did not work earlier in the season? He has not signed players that are likely to be able to execute this tactic, so why persist/try it? This for me outlines why it was a mistake to sack SOD so soon. We are basically going through the same process SOD was earlier in the season with a new manager. SOD had worked out our deficiencies, changed the style of play (which whilst wasn't pretty was beginning to work) and had a striker lined up to sign. Now, we have SC reassessing the squad and making changes that thus far have not improved results one bit. No matter what he's spouted so far SC has been a 442 "direct style" manager throughout his career and I just wonder what angle he's trying to work with all this passing style stuff. How long before he realises the limitations of our back four and reverts to going long? If he does persist with allowing the players and keeper to pass the ball then we'd better hope they improve quickly... You perhaps hant read my thread "Cotts After match" ,i swear that could have been an O'Driscoll interview but with a more pleasing West Country lilt obviously. . It is a little bit worrying ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 They played the ball out from the back very neatly when I saw them play at Bradford the other week. I was quite worried about them giving the ball away in a bad position, though, and perhaps there was an element of luck in the fact that they didn't. The limitations as I saw them weren't in the back 3 (who simply gave the ball to Pack to deal with most of the time) but the lack of movement from forward players and Pack not really being the most effective distributor of the ball. Even at the top level it's rarely the job of a defender to initiate an attack with a good pass. They give it to a midfielder to create something, which is where we still struggle somewhat. It's therefore not that important whether or not Osbourne and El Abd can pass, because so long as they can play a 10 yard ball into midfield (which you'd really, really hope they could manage) it isn't important for a team that plays out from the back. It is important, however, to have movement up front and a midfielder who will show for the ball, hold the ball, and use the ball. Wolves were pressing us very quickly which in turn led to us making mistakes (williams being the worst offender for me), Wolves also looked stronger physically for me and Baldock, Ried and Osborne were all getting knocked off the ball quite quickly and JeT kept giving the ball away as well which was the most frustraiting thing, Every time we got in to the game and started playing some nice stuff one of those would happen and we were right back under pressure sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). Great and we had the "honeymoon" period as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yes I thought those remarks from Cotts were the antithesis of what he is about. I am in no position to judge from afar but it seems from some posters we are playing better football since he has arrived. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). SC talks a good game and his talk of attacking play and positivity seems to be rubbing off on some fans. The reality as far as I've seen is things have been exactly the same as under SOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). In the interest of balance, SC's record does include 2 games against Championship opposition. SOD's record also includes a cup win (and a defeat) against a lower division side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). Two of those games were against a Championship side. Strange how you mention Tamworth but not that, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 SC talks a good game and his talk of attacking play and positivity seems to be rubbing off on some fans. The reality as far as I've seen is things have been exactly the same as under SOD. Really? I'd get those sunglasses checked if I were you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Are Rovers? Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I believe it is a long term plan. IF we get back into the championship, we would not get anywhere playing hoof and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). It's a pointless comparison anyway but I think you may want to consider the opposition throughout those 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Does seem strange when we don't have the players to do it effectively. I'm sure they might improve or adapt to it but the likes of Flint and Osbourne are ball winners. Both pretty poor with the ball at feet. I would say that Williams is easily the best ball playing defender at the club, even though his sloppy pass really cost us Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 With SC now completing 10 games in charge it's possible to compare his record with SO'D's last 10: SC: W 3 D 4 L 3 Goals: 14-14 SOD: W 3D 3 L 4 Goals: 15-12 One of SC's wins was the Tamworth game, another was home to Stevenage who are bottom. Looking at the two records there's very little difference despite all the talk of improvement. Most people think we're more attacking under SC but the goal tally is almost identical. It will be interesting to see if things do improve between now and the end of the season (they need to). And two of the defeats were at third-placed Wolves and Championship Watford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted January 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Two of those games were against a Championship side. Strange how you mention Tamworth but not that, eh? Really? I'd get those sunglasses checked if I were you.... You sound like you're getting desperate Graham and have no valid observations to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 You sound like you're getting desperate Graham and have no valid observations to make... If you're going to pick out Tamworth, it would seem fair to mention Watford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.