Aizoon Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yeah, any old name in general football circulation who can talk a good game is worth blindly chucking our faith and money into. Once, after about a year, the fella's approach isn't bringing the desired results jack him in an try again. Forget philosophy, principle an insight; let's just keep rolling dice. Or do you see a logical continuation between Del, SOD and Cotterill? And that is the problem. The fault doesn't lie with DMC, SOD or SC. It doesn't lie with the players and it doesn't lie with the fans. It lies with a board that doesn't have the cojones to put a policy and a manager in place and to stick by both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm not surprised at how things are going for Del. He made mistakes whilst here - he'd be the first to admit that, but he also had an extremely difficult task. A task experienced managers like Coppell and SO'D have also failed at. I would have been more the happy for him to stay even if we got relegated. He made some good signings whilst here, and we played good football at times. Sadly we went on that winless run after the Skuse/Cunningham injuries and Del struggled to deal with the pressure whilst sections of the support also started to turn on him, so it was always going to be a struggle from that point onwards. I'm sure he'll be back in England one day and he'll do a good job. A very likeable individual too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Really good bloke and I wanted him to do well but ultimately failed. No excuses. He made some absolutely amateur mistakes that I wouldn't expect from a Sunday league manager. Unfortunately it is a cut throat business and Del did not learn from his mistakes quick enough. His work in the transfer market was pretty poor to say the least. Hopefully in Scotland he can get back on track. I am sure he will learn from his mistakes here as he is an intelligent bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Never liked him cleared AG faster than any other manager in our history!! However he seems in his element in Scotland, so good luck to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanker Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 He bought a lot of those tossers don't forget that made I laugh ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrobbin Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Agreed. No manager on Earth could have got those tossers to put in a shift - at least, without a whip... Can someone tell me if this work ethic with regard to players has really changed? Regardless of who is in charge. Our current league position would indicate not.. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrobbin Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm not surprised at how things are going for Del. He made mistakes whilst here - he'd be the first to admit that, but he also had an extremely difficult task. A task experienced managers like Coppell and SO'D have also failed at. I would have been more the happy for him to stay even if we got relegated. He made some good signings whilst here, and we played good football at times. Sadly we went on that winless run after the Skuse/Cunningham injuries and Del struggled to deal with the pressure whilst sections of the support also started to turn on him, so it was always going to be a struggle from that point onwards. I'm sure he'll be back in England one day and he'll do a good job. A very likeable individual too. Coppell didn't even try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Can someone tell me if this work ethic with regard to players has really changed? Regardless of who is in charge. Our current league position would indicate not.. ! From what I've seen, we've got plenty of problems, but work rate isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrobbin Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 From what I've seen, we've got plenty of problems, but work rate isn't one of them. Debatable Aiz. I think the work rate on the whole ( save a few games) is good. The measure here is effective work rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 From what I've seen, we've got plenty of problems, but work rate isn't one of them. I don't think it's been bad for a while, the application has been shocking for ages though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Yeah, any old name in general football circulation who can talk a good game is worth blindly chucking our faith and money into. Hardly an accurate portrayal of his appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I will never forget us completely outplaying Southampton (promoted that season), Palace and Cardiff (promoted too) and with some of the best football that I've seen at the Gate for years. He got hooped by injuries just when we were putting together a team that were building form and confidence. We lost Cunningham, Skuse, Carey, Fontaine, Wilson, Elokobi and Bryan, all within a few weeks of each other and that was catastrophic to confidence. By the time we got them back we were in a losing run and couldn't buy a point. I would like to see him come back sometime; I think he's still potentially a great manager but I think The Lansdowns may have to go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Did pretty well when he had to come in and make do, and he had an admittedly tricky task in reducing wages, yet being asked to build. That said... once he had license to start building his own team he brought in some seriously questionable signings, and after a fairly average start to the season last time out, he'd totally lost the plot in terms of team selections, tactics, and motivating the players by the end. Watching Chris Wood (who'd scored at an excellent rate everywhere except at City under McInnes the season prior) decimate us at home in 45 mins, while McInnes stood looking utterly clueless in the dug out, especially after the nightmare of a performance against Millwall the game prior. left a mark; I don't think a manager destined for any kind of greatness in their career would have set up such a hapless team, nor let them succumb so pathetically. His totally switch around of back room staff also stood out as a costly mistake, with long term ramifications; we lost any sense of continuity once he'd gone, more so than in previous years, and this hurt us going forward more than many give credit for. I think he shoulders a significant bulk of the responsibility for our relegation, so can't say I love the guy, but also don't hate him, because I do think under better circumstances he could have done well. May very well have found his level (for now at least) in Scotland, and think if he were to come back to England he'd be better starting lower with a more stable but ambitious team, rather than one in crisis. So... Sheffield United next season then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Believesham Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Good to see him succeeding, never nice to see a manager disappear after one bad job He turned the Albion job down before being in for a couple of other jobs so he was highly rated but felt he needed to learn more in Scotland The SAF point about a hospital ball can be read for Millwall too, Steve Lomas, also from St. Johnstone was left with Jackett's legacy and he'd done little if anything to prepare for this season, Millwall will still come down IMO as a result. I think he shoulders a significant bulk of the responsibility for our relegation, so can't say I love the guy, but also don't hate him, because I do think under better circumstances he could have done well. May very well have found his level (for now at least) in Scotland, and think if he were to come back to England he'd be better starting lower with a more stable but ambitious team, rather than one in crisis. So... Sheffield United next season then? 100% agree, a bit of stability behind him and he will be able to tinker a bit and revert to a succesful formula when it doesn't work. Had he been told about reducing the wage budget quite so drastically I don't think he'd have taken the job - it would have been nice to see someone who said "I won't half your wage budget, but I will get you into the play-offs" and actually deliver. But hey, beggars can't be choosers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Some of the excuses people are making for McInnes are generous to say the least. I think people are being guided by a dislike for other managers, say SOD and the fact Del was a good bloke. The bottom line is he was a good honest bloke that gave it his all but his inexperience and too many poor mistakes cost him. It wasn't for the want of trying with Del but he ultimately wasn't up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Coppell didn't even try! Apparently he did a fair bit of phone calling, emailing and research from Thailand before taking up the post. One should not knock without the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Did pretty well when he had to come in and make do, and he had an admittedly tricky task in reducing wages, yet being asked to build. That said... once he had license to start building his own team he brought in some seriously questionable signings, and after a fairly average start to the season last time out, he'd totally lost the plot in terms of team selections, tactics, and motivating the players by the end. Watching Chris Wood (who'd scored at an excellent rate everywhere except at City under McInnes the season prior) decimate us at home in 45 mins, while McInnes stood looking utterly clueless in the dug out, especially after the nightmare of a performance against Millwall the game prior. left a mark; I don't think a manager destined for any kind of greatness in their career would have set up such a hapless team, nor let them succumb so pathetically. His totally switch around of back room staff also stood out as a costly mistake, with long term ramifications; we lost any sense of continuity once he'd gone, more so than in previous years, and this hurt us going forward more than many give credit for. I think he shoulders a significant bulk of the responsibility for our relegation, so can't say I love the guy, but also don't hate him, because I do think under better circumstances he could have done well. May very well have found his level (for now at least) in Scotland, and think if he were to come back to England he'd be better starting lower with a more stable but ambitious team, rather than one in crisis. So... Sheffield United next season then? I think the level he has found is a mich higher level than our level, 2nd in SPL, league cup final compared to our relegation fight at the bottom of league one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think the level he has found is a mich higher level than our level, 2nd in SPL, league cup final compared to our relegation fight at the bottom of league one. Which he contributed towards unfortunately. The standard in Scotland is poor and he's in a job under a lot less pressure with no real expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Which he contributed towards unfortunately. The standard in Scotland is poor and he's in a job under a lot less pressure with no real expectations.I think our board are more to blame than him tbh. He did what they asked him to do. The standard maybe poor but so is league one, I couldnt see us beating too many spl sides if im honest. Aberdeeb are a massive club and the pressure there will be far greater than it is here without a doubt. Think many City fans think we are bigger than we actually are Aberdeen have won the league a few times, both of the scotish cups and the European Cup Winners Cup and the Super Cup, what the hell have we ever won?? Much bigger club than us with higher expectations. Since the 90s they have under achieved, If Del Boy can bring success back to them he would be a legend. SAF didn't do too bad post poxy Aberdeen did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledinwatford Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 And that is the problem. The fault doesn't lie with DMC, SOD or SC. It doesn't lie with the players and it doesn't lie with the fans. It lies with a board that doesn't have the cojones to put a policy and a manager in place and to stick by both. Isn't it a bit of a copout (no pun intended) to blindly blame the board? Isn't the cycle - Appoint manager with good credentials and reputation (both Del and SOD were very highly thought of) Have him spend the owners' money to assemble a team Play good football Win games Seems to me that the managers we have had have done the first two but failed because they played rubbish football and didn't manage to win more than a handful of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldenBall Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think the level he has found is a mich higher level than our level, 2nd in SPL, league cup final compared to our relegation fight at the bottom of league one. Disagree entirely. Spent five years living in Scotland and saw a lot of football, from Junior league level up to SPL. The standard outwith the Auld Firm is by-and-large League One, at very best, and although I left as it was happening, I wager it has not been improved with Rangers strife and subsequent relegation. Yes, there are good players and coaching staff there and, yes, it still takes guile and skill to achieve what Del has done. But don't forget; Aberdeen are one of the most prestigious clubs in that league, and were undoubtedly under-performing when he took over. When he's getting teams built from loan players and League One cast offs to draw matches against Bayern Munich at home like Calderwood was back about 6 years ago, then I'll concede he's doing a better than average job; right now, cup final withstanding, he's brought them back to the level they should be competing at year-in-year out. Let's see how he sustains that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Disagree entirely. Spent five years living in Scotland and saw a lot of football, from Junior league level up to SPL. The standard outwith the Auld Firm is by-and-large League One, at very best, and although I left as it was happening, I wager it has not been improved with Rangers strife and subsequent relegation. Yes, there are good players and coaching staff there and, yes, it still takes guile and skill to achieve what Del has done. But don't forget; Aberdeen are one of the most prestigious clubs in that league, and were undoubtedly under-performing when he took over. When he's getting teams built from loan players and League One cast offs to draw matches against Bayern Munich at home like Calderwood was back about 6 years ago, then I'll concede he's doing a better than average job; right now, cup final withstanding, he's brought them back to the level they should be competing at year-in-year out. Let's see how he sustains that.But many many before have tried and failed to bring them back to that level, same as say Leeds for example should be top end of prem but are stuck in the Championship, if someone came in and led them back to where they belong is that not an achievement because that is where they should be anyway? Del Boy whilst there is still someway to go is doing a fantastic job and i'm not going to undermine what he is doing up there simply because it didnt work out here. If anything to me it proves the problem at this club isnt the managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 But many many before have tried and failed to bring them back to that level, same as say Leeds for example should be top end of prem but are stuck in the Championship, if someone came in and led them back to where they belong is that not an achievement because that is where they should be anyway? Del Boy whilst there is still someway to go is doing a fantastic job and i'm not going to undermine what he is doing up there simply because it didnt work out here. If anything to me it proves the problem at this club isnt the managers. I said I recognise the his achievements so far, but that wasn't what I was originally responding to; you said being (nominally) 2nd in the SPL (21 points off first btw) is a higher level than when he was at City in the Championship or where we are at now. My own first hand experience tells me that is isn't the case. Mark Magee built a Motherwell team that finished 3rd back in the late 2000s, and yet he proved how utterly poor he was at Rovers soon after. The standard is lower; I've seen it in front of my eyes. I'm not saying City would best his Aberdeen team right now, but I'd bet a decent sum that the likes of Brentford, Orient or Wolves would brush them aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think our board are more to blame than him tbh. He did what they asked him to do. The standard maybe poor but so is league one, I couldnt see us beating too many spl sides if im honest. Aberdeeb are a massive club and the pressure there will be far greater than it is here without a doubt. Think many City fans think we are bigger than we actually are Aberdeen have won the league a few times, both of the scotish cups and the European Cup Winners Cup and the Super Cup, what the hell have we ever won?? Much bigger club than us with higher expectations. Since the 90s they have under achieved, If Del Boy can bring success back to them he would be a legend. SAF didn't do too bad post poxy Aberdeen did he? The board didn't help him out but his transfer dealings in both seasons were not exactly a great example of someone who was meant to be reducing the wage budget or cutting their cloth accordingly. I don't think much of a defence can be put for him in that aspect as he was backed plenty enough. He wasn't good enough in his time here and did not learn from his mistakes. Tactically clueless I'm afraid. People have very short memories when it comes to Del and because he was a nice bloke some just brush a lot of what happened under the carpet. Remembered fondly as a bloke? Yes. As a manager? Absolutely not. As for Aberdeen it's good to see him doing well but while the expectations are high the circumstances are totally different. Everyone is basically aiming to finish second. The pressure is completely different as the likes of Aberdeen and Motherwell have a budget, albeit next to nothing where as most other teams have literally no budget. Whilst I am not disputing the job he is doing now, it's hardly a miracle is it? I think he deserves recognition for what he is doing up there but the standard is so so poor. Half of the league would be bang average teams in L2 in England. That's got nothing to do with City fans thinking they are bigger than they are, it's just Scottish football is fast on the descent. He has hardly came in at a time where other clubs are at the peak of their powers. It's no different to what Stuart McCall has done at Motherwell in a sense. Good job, but nothing fantastic. So much has changed since the SAF days and the glory Aberdeen days that I think the fans will not have anywhere near the expectations that once were. As is often said, it's not where clubs were, it's where they are now and regardless of Aberdeen's history there is no way that can be used to make out Del is under a lot of pressure. It's hardly as if the Aberdeen fans are expecting the next SAF in Del are they? He is basically up against 4 or 5 half decent sides and the rest may as well pack it in. Again, not meaning to discredit Del for the good work he has done so far but I don't believe he faces the same pressures as of that in England. Fans are more accepting and realistic of the fact that Scottish football is dying on it's arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I hadn't realised that Del had lost patience with the idle tossers and was ready to play the youngsters, albeit just before he was sacked. How much worse off could we be if the board had stuck with him and let him do just that? We had to get rid of them anyway, in the long run, and we went down anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Don't kid yourselves, the level in the SPL is lower than Div 1 - Celtic apart, City could give all SPL teams a game. Check my user name, I know exactly what the quality, or lack of, is up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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