Wes Burns

[HoldenBall]

Ignoring Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Jordan Wynter, Derrick Williams and now Elliot Parish. Players who have been dropped, farmed out or played out of position by SC.

Joe Morrell not even mentioned either.

Cotterill may be a lot of things, but the ultimate youth coach and giver of opportunities he is not.

He also said he'd only play youth if they're good enough, and have the right mentality.. It's fair to say some of those players you mentioned aren't good enough in this present moment

[Gene Hunt]

He also said he'd only play youth if they're good enough, and have the right mentality.. It's fair to say some of those players you mentioned aren't good enough in this present moment

Every last one of them is better than those that Cotterill has brought into the club.

El Abd forced Williams to first be dropped and then played at left back, which is IMO harming his long term development.

Wade Elliot has forced Bobby out of the starting line up whilst pushing the other midfielders even further from the first team. Anyone who argues that Elliot has improved the team will be immediately shot.

Barnett has meant that Baldock and Jet are being used in midfield positions which is hindering Bryan and Burns.

Cotterill tried to sign a right winger in January and only price stopped that from happening. To me that suggests his apparent dedication to the career of Wes will stretch as far as Cotterill cannot find an average player to replace him with.

[petehinton]

all those bashing SOD for not playing him seen to forget the 5/6 appearances he made under SOD last season!

[HoldenBall]

Every last one of them is better than those that Cotterill has brought into the club.

El Abd forced Williams to first be dropped and then played at left back, which is IMO harming his long term development.

Wade Elliot has forced Bobby out of the starting line up whilst pushing the other midfielders even further from the first team. Anyone who argues that Elliot has improved the team will be immediately shot.

Barnett has meant that Baldock and Jet are being used in midfield positions which is hindering Bryan and Burns.

Cotterill tried to sign a right winger in January and only price stopped that from happening. To me that suggests his apparent dedication to the career of Wes will stretch as far as Cotterill cannot find an average player to replace him with.

Agreed with Reid and Elliot. Elliot was a pointless signing but he's only here for a month so he was probably used in the mind for back up purposes.

 

We've been crying out for a player like Barnett for ages, tall, strong, can hold the ball. He might not of had his best game against Tranmere but I think he's done a job, and regarding of pushing Baldock out wide, he's still scoring. Playing well, harassing defenders so all is not lost.

 

And as for Joe Bryan, I know it's early days and he's still young but when he gets his chances he doesn't take them, so I'm not too fussed about him on the subs bench

[Super]

Ignoring Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Jordan Wynter, Derrick Williams and now Elliot Parish. Players who have been dropped, farmed out or played out of position by SC.

Joe Morrell not even mentioned either.

Cotterill may be a lot of things, but the ultimate youth coach and giver of opportunities he is not.

 

Joe Bryan hasn't done enough when he has been played.

[Robin1988]

Every last one of them is better than those that Cotterill has brought into the club.

I'm sure Brighton and Brentford fans would disagree with you there. In El-Abd's case we definitely haven't seen the best of him, that won't happen without playing games though. And it's not at the expense of a youth player, Williams is still very much involved.

 

El Abd forced Williams to first be dropped and then played at left back, which is IMO harming his long term development.

Dropped for 45 minutes and then started every game since, you mean, three at left-back which is one of his two natural positions?

 

 

Wade Elliot has forced Bobby out of the starting line up whilst pushing the other midfielders even further from the first team. Anyone who argues that Elliot has improved the team will be immediately shot.

Barnett has meant that Baldock and Jet are being used in midfield positions which is hindering Bryan and Burns.

Bobby has played in three of the six games since Elliott arrived in weeks where we have been playing Tuesday-Saturday. He has only completed 90 minutes 6 times all season (4 under SC in fact) so maybe that tells you what you need to know about his stamina.

 

Baldock is being used on the right of a front three, as he was last season, and has scored two and made another in two games from that position. Sorry Wes. Bryan has never played in a front three for us, or in the hole, so his development is completely unaffected and he's barely played all season anyway - and when he has he's been generally poor.

 

 

Cotterill tried to sign a right winger in January and only price stopped that from happening. To me that suggests his apparent dedication to the career of Wes will stretch as far as Cotterill cannot find an average player to replace him with.

No he tried to sign Luke Freeman, a left winger, and not an 'average player'.

 

With such a penchant for just making up facts I'm slightly worried I've been done by a WUM here.

[chipdawg]

It strikes me that perhaps at such a tender age and with his main asset being pace, Wes is currently best employed coming off the bench against tired defenders, which seems to be how SC mainly uses him and, if you ignore the anti-SOD propaganda, how SOD seemed to use him (when he used him at all)

It seems fairly pointless to ridicule the previous managers use or lack-of-use of Burns anyway. Given how shit we've been for the most part, I'm sure that if he'd started a run of games and been poor, SOD would be being slated for ruining the lads confidence. A manager made a decision on a given player at a given time, that is all

[Gene Hunt]

I'm sure Brighton and Brentford fans would disagree with you there. In El-Abd's case we definitely haven't seen the best of him, that won't happen without playing games though. And it's not at the expense of a youth player, Williams is still very much involved.

 

 

Dropped for 45 minutes and then started every game since, you mean, three at left-back which is one of his two natural positions?

 

 

 

Bobby has played in three of the six games since Elliott arrived in weeks where we have been playing Tuesday-Saturday. He has only completed 90 minutes 6 times all season (4 under SC in fact) so maybe that tells you what you need to know about his stamina.

 

Baldock is being used on the right of a front three, as he was last season, and has scored two and made another in two games from that position. Sorry Wes. Bryan has never played in a front three for us, or in the hole, so his development is completely unaffected and he's barely played all season anyway - and when he has he's been generally poor.

 

 

 

No he tried to sign Luke Freeman, a left winger, and not an 'average player'.

 

With such a penchant for just making up facts I'm slightly worried I've been done by a WUM here.

 

There's absolutely no need to be rude. I'm merely presenting my opinion. As far as I can see on this thread, the only made up stuff is the myth that Cotterill is the best thing to ever happen to the younger players at this club. He is not and other than Wes (Who has started once?) every single young player has had considerably less football under Cotterill than before.

 

I'm unfortunately not going to be able to take your comment about El Abd seriously and I will continue to judge him on what I have seen from him so far, He is technically terrible, a thug who gives away needless free-kicks around the box (Costing us goals already) and has absolutely no positional sense whatsoever. Those are not aspects to a persons game that change with form, they're habits ingrained into the players personality and he will, IN MY OPINION (just to be clear) end up being one of the worst players to ever represent this club.

The two players who should be playing centre back for us are currently occupying the full-back spots. Karleigh, after such an impressive start is being hindered by being played out of position. He is not a right back at all, he was turned inside-out time and again against Tranny and that will continue. Williams, I say again, is being held back by being played out of position. He needs to be playing in his ONLY natural position at centre-back and learning his trade. The fact he is already a better player than Flint and El Abd is an even simpler reason why he shouldn't be at left back.

 

I'm quite disappointed to see the writing off of Joe Bryan throughout this thread too. The one thing I assumed everybody would understand about the clubs objective of bringing through academy players was that you cannot possibly expect consistent good performances from the get-go and write players off when they aren't impressive on debut and from that point onward. Joe is a talented, skillful and pacey winger who should be getting plenty of game time to aid his development into a first team regular.

 

Playing a left back at left wing, a centre back at left back, another at right back, a striker at right wing and a close to retirement winger at deep lying midfielder seems to be doing the trick... But Wes get's between 45 and 20 minutes a game (Depending on how badly Cotterill's tactics have left us behind) so the long term future of the club is in safe hands....

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

all those bashing SOD for not playing him seen to forget the 5/6 appearances he made under SOD last season!

You have an agenda

You're boring zzzzzzz

Is that a little dig at SC? You can't make a post without having a go at him

Thought I'd get in there first

You're not allowed a different opinion sorry

"OTIB says nooo"

[samo II]

I'd certainly be interested in seeing a Bristol City side with a four-man defence built around Osborne and Williams at centre back; I fail to believe that it could be worse than our backline has been all season.

 

This isn't an opportunity to have a dig at either Flint (who I think is a player with a future here, certainly) or El Abd (who I don't think is great, but perhaps hasn't exactly had the opportunity to show his best form yet), but more an observation about the qualities of the prior two.

 

I also think that with Wagstaff out, we could certainly do much, much worse than trying out Bryan and Burns as a starting wingers, and if the relatively experienced pair of  Cunningham and Maloney were deployed behind them, I really cannot see how that line up could be any worse than anything else we've seen.  

[sodburyred]

I think a lot of the fitness issues with our team are down to the sub standerd pre season we had. Every team we've played this season looks fitter and stronger. We missed a major trick by not running the players raggid in pre season. At this level stamina and fitness is a big advantage which we dont have.

Its no wonder the players cant last full games. I mean come on Williams getting cramp in the 70th minute against Tranmere? Its ridiculous.  

Thankfully since SC has been here it looks like it subtely improving, But is never going to be right till he gets a full summer with the players. Think the likes of Burns who barely  played a pre season friendly will be alot better fitness wise for next season. 

 

Also Reid has played a hell of a lot of games this season, more than he ever has before. Are you honestly blaming SC for the fact that he's needed to be rested during a period when we have been playing Saturday- Tuesday for a few weeks in the 2nd half of the season.? Its clear SC rates him but his form and tiredness is clearly taking its toll at the minute.  

[Super]

Burns is coming along fine and I'm sure he'll get more game time once (if) we are out of the brown stuff. I don't see anything wrong with that at all, SC is doing a good job with him as far as I can tell - same with the other younger players.

 

But I'd agree that playing players out of position leads to conceding goals, especially at the back.

 

Osbourne is no full back and should be first choice right sided centre back, and Williams should be left sided centre back. That would be our strongest pairing at the back with Moloney and Cunningham as full backs. Nothing against Flint at all, just that Osbourne and Williams are that bit better. El Abd has not shown anything so far which merits his place in the back two and his signing appears to have unbalanced the defence - not his fault, but the manager needs to reassess it. Round pegs in round holes is the requirement, not fitting in new signings to justify the expense.

 

Lack of protection from the midfield leads to that as well. You defend as a team, we never press teams we just sit back and let them dominate.

[samo II]

Lack of protection from the midfield leads to that as well. You defend as a team, we never press teams we just sit back and let them dominate.

I think that goes without saying, but exacerbating it by playing two centrebacks at full back, a left back at left midfield and a striker on the right side (as well as Baldock has done) doesn't help matters.

 

I realise we are all perhaps placing too much faith in the lad, but in terms of midfield solidity, Liam Kelly cannot get back quick enough.  He;s saying early March, which is a bonus;  http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-City-midfielder-Liam-Kelly-eyes-return/story-20648087-detail/story.html

[Robin1988]

There's absolutely no need to be rude. I'm merely presenting my opinion. As far as I can see on this thread, the only made up stuff is the myth that Cotterill is the best thing to ever happen to the younger players at this club. He is not and other than Wes (Who has started once?) every single young player has had considerably less football under Cotterill than before.

I'm sorry, I was just referring to your inconsistent and casual use of facts. Sorry if it caused any offence.

 

I'm unfortunately not going to be able to take your comment about El Abd seriously and I will continue to judge him on what I have seen from him so far, He is technically terrible, a thug who gives away needless free-kicks around the box (Costing us goals already) and has absolutely no positional sense whatsoever. Those are not aspects to a persons game that change with form, they're habits ingrained into the players personality and he will, IN MY OPINION (just to be clear) end up being one of the worst players to ever represent this club.

You claimed with such authority about his ability after eight games. Even if he had played badly in all eight, which he hasn't, this would still be nonsensical, if not unusual.

 

 

The two players who should be playing centre back for us are currently occupying the full-back spots. Karleigh, after such an impressive start is being hindered by being played out of position. He is not a right back at all, he was turned inside-out time and again against Tranny and that will continue. Williams, I say again, is being held back by being played out of position. He needs to be playing in his ONLY natural position at centre-back and learning his trade. The fact he is already a better player than Flint and El Abd is an even simpler reason why he shouldn't be at left back.

I'll say it again, Williams has played left-back for three games, we've not lost any of them. I would love to hear more about how playing in a position he has already played in, for THREE GAMES is hindering his development. Karleigh had a good game at Orient on Tuesday, at right-back, no great surprise to see him there again.

 

I'm quite disappointed to see the writing off of Joe Bryan throughout this thread too. The one thing I assumed everybody would understand about the clubs objective of bringing through academy players was that you cannot possibly expect consistent good performances from the get-go and write players off when they aren't impressive on debut and from that point onward. Joe is a talented, skillful and pacey winger who should be getting plenty of game time to aid his development into a first team regular.

Saying he's had a bad season isn't 'writing him off'. He's not performed as he did last season and in time he will do better. Not as though he was playing every week under O'Driscoll. There is no room for sentiment in football, playing him to let him develop when he's out of form and we have other options, especially when we are in serious relegation trouble, is nothing short of nonsensical.

 

 

Playing a left back at left wing, a centre back at left back, another at right back, a striker at right wing and a close to retirement winger at deep lying midfielder seems to be doing the trick... But Wes get's between 45 and 20 minutes a game (Depending on how badly Cotterill's tactics have left us behind) so the long term future of the club is in safe hands....

Cunningham played left wing to do a job on Odubajo last week and did it well, no real surprise to see him start there again after such an impressive win. Osborne has always been able to play right back. Baldock is not playing right wing, he's playing on the right of a front three as he did last season, he scored two and made another from that position in the last two games, what more do you want? Wes has started under SC and didn't have the same effect.

 

You can keep bringing in this ill-informed nonsense if you like but this is getting dull, at least do some homework first.

[Gene Hunt]

 

 

I'm sorry, I was just referring to your inconsistent and casual use of facts. Sorry if it caused any offence.

 

The only fact I have stated is that every young player in the squad has had significantly less playing time than before, other than Wes who has made himself undroppable from the bench as he has been superb. 

 

You claimed with such authority about his ability after eight games. Even if he had played badly in all eight, which he hasn't, this would still be nonsensical, if not unusual.

 

He's terrible. Not the point of this discussion. That's my opinion and it will take him playing well to change that.

 

I'll say it again, Williams has played left-back for three games, we've not lost any of them. I would love to hear more about how playing in a position he has already played in, for THREE GAMES is hindering his development. Karleigh had a good game at Orient on Tuesday, at right-back, no great surprise to see him there again.

 

Because he should be playing centre back in those THREE GAMES... He might well be ok playing at full back, but at this stage in his development he would be helped by playing in one position, his best position and learning that trade as quickly as possible before learning the nuances of playing at full back. Osbourne has looked pretty poor every time I've seen him play full back. At centre back he was hugely impressive and that's why many rate him highly. He and Williams are being held back playing in positions that do not get the best out of them to accommodate Flint and El Abd. Further to that Cunningham (Our best player last season) and Maloney (A solid, dependable right back) are being under-used. It's ridiculous. 

 

Saying he's had a bad season isn't 'writing him off'. He's not performed as he did last season and in time he will do better. Not as though he was playing every week under O'Driscoll. There is no room for sentiment in football, playing him to let him develop when he's out of form and we have other options, especially when we are in serious relegation trouble, is nothing short of nonsensical.

Short-termism, the very thing that has set this club back a decade from a position where we were on the cusp of Premiership football... Now that's nonsensical....

 

 

Cunningham played left wing to do a job on Odubajo last week and did it well, no real surprise to see him start there again after such an impressive win. Osborne has always been able to play right back. Baldock is not playing right wing, he's playing on the right of a front three as he did last season, he scored two and made another from that position in the last two games, what more do you want? Wes has started under SC and didn't have the same effect.

What more do I want? no more square pegs in round holes. We have a squad jam packed with young talent and we should be giving them every chance to progress in our first team. Wes should start the next home game, and we should attack from the first whistle as opposed to the half time whistle as has been the case in every home game bar one under SC. It strikes me as odd that one good performance away to Orient (Who's form appears to be dipping) has become some kind of vindication for the shower of shite home performances we have seen under Cotterill. Not for me, I pay a ruddy fortune to watch BCFC and I will not accept what I have witnessed under SC without at least commenting on it.

 

You can keep bringing in this ill-informed nonsense if you like but this is getting dull, at least do some homework first.

not half as dull as the love-in with 'Cotts'...

[Robin1988]

There's not much else to say other than as has already been pointed out, the 'fact' that every player has been playing less is fiction & if two goals in two games is a square peg in a round hole then maybe we could do with some more.

[Gene Hunt]

There's not much else to say other than as has already been pointed out, the 'fact' that every player has been playing less is fiction & if two goals in two games is a square peg in a round hole then maybe we could do with some more.

 

You'd think after years of failure city fans would be a little more clued up.

 

Keep your head in the sand and when it all crumbles again you'll get right behind the next guy, regardless of the evidence in front of you. 

[sodburyred]

 

 

 

  It only took a half against Orient to keep some fans still missing the previous manager.

 

We also started Burns before and he tired before half time. Hes not got the legs to start yet. The rest of your points arn't worth debating.

[Bedminster Born And Red]

You'd think after years of failure city fans would be a little more clued up.

 

Keep your head in the sand and when it all crumbles again you'll get right behind the next guy, regardless of the evidence in front of you. 

You would have thought after years of demanding the changing of the Manager every few hours and watching the club go even further downhill when the Board don't show the balls to stick with their appointment that the fans would cut the current Manager some slack and go with the flow for a while.

 

Cotterill certainly isn't Mourinho in the managerial stakes but he is what we have got and if we change the Manager again in the next few weeks we WILL go down. We are at least picking up some points even if the performances aren't right and we might just want to give the new Manager a pre-season to stamp his authority on the place. The evidence of the last few seasons, if you really are more clued up in comparison to everyone else as you seem to think you are, would surely suggest to you that we pay the price during the season for an awful pre-season where we don't sign the right players and ignore defeats at places like Clevedon preferring instead to believe "it'll be alright on the night"!!

[Robin1988]

You'd think after years of failure city fans would be a little more clued up.

You would indeed, but you still keep peddling this rubbish that the youth are playing less despite it being untrue.

[Gene Hunt]

You would indeed, but you still keep peddling this rubbish that the youth are playing less despite it being untrue.

Really? Untrue, let's look at the starting line up for the last two games. How many academy players?

Big fat zero.

[Gene Hunt]

You would have thought after years of demanding the changing of the Manager every few hours and watching the club go even further downhill when the Board don't show the balls to stick with their appointment that the fans would cut the current Manager some slack and go with the flow for a while.

 

Cotterill certainly isn't Mourinho in the managerial stakes but he is what we have got and if we change the Manager again in the next few weeks we WILL go down. We are at least picking up some points even if the performances aren't right and we might just want to give the new Manager a pre-season to stamp his authority on the place. The evidence of the last few seasons, if you really are more clued up in comparison to everyone else as you seem to think you are, would surely suggest to you that we pay the price during the season for an awful pre-season where we don't sign the right players and ignore defeats at places like Clevedon preferring instead to believe "it'll be alright on the night"!!

I haven't advocated sacking him once, certainly not before the season is concluded. I still live in hope that he will prove me wrong and every so often I find myself convinced he could have a long term place here. Then he does something to reassure me that it won't be the case.

The thing I want most from this club now is to see development of young players. It's what the board claimed was our new role and purpose in football and I agreed with it, pipe dreams of Premier League football are dead in the water for many years after the mismanagement you talk of from boardroom down. Rather than treading water spending beyond our means and filling the club up with long contracts for old heads I want us to go down the route we started when this squad was assembled. It's a good squad, plenty of really good talented young players who with the right start to their careers facilitated by us will go far. The further they go, the further we go either financially or physically through promotions.

 

The only argument I'm having here is that there seems to be a myth being presented that Cotterill has been good for our younger players based on the emergence of Wes Burns. I don't think that is the case at all and it has been noticeable that the average age of both our squad and our starting eleven has got higher since SC came to the club. Perhaps that might help us in the short term as a club, It's an impossible question to answer. However, it will in my opinion (Which is just as likely as any to be wrong) not be beneficial to the players we have earmarked as the future of our club.

[Robin1988]

Really? Untrue, let's look at the starting line up for the last two games. How many academy players?

Big fat zero.