Advanced Driver Training

[RedRock]

First principle is that you are in control of the vehicle at all times.

How can you be in control of a vehicle when you're in the wrong gear (6th) pulling up to a junction? You change down when slowing so you can react to circumstance, if necessary, accelerating away.

Seems all learners and advanced drivers are taught not to change down through the gears. Appears the police are taught this way as well. No wonder there are so many bloody accidents!

Defies logic and highly dangerous practice to me not being In the correct gear.

[Eddie Hitler]

The police usually drive in one gear below where they should be, this is because in the event of needing to pull away rapidly they can just stamp on the throttle.

 

So never buy an ex-police car; the engine will be showing much more wear than the mileage would indicate.

[Gazred]

First principle is that you are in control of the vehicle at all times.

How can you be in control of a vehicle when you're in the wrong gear (6th) pulling up to a junction? You change down when slowing so you can react to circumstance, if necessary, accelerating away.

Seems all learners and advanced drivers are taught not to change down through the gears. Appears the police are taught this way as well. No wonder there are so many bloody accidents!

Defies logic and highly dangerous practice to me not being In the correct gear.

 

I was taught that either way was ok, in other words i wouldn't loose any score on my test by not changing down gears whilst breaking. Personally unless its something like an emergency stop, i use my gears to slow down as well as the brakes all the time.

 

There seems to be a strong point of view that this is an outdated practice and on newer cars this is not the correct thing to do. This only seems to be based on the wear and tear on the gearbox though, i.e brakes are cheaper to replace than your gearbox.

 

So, no idea which one is right or wrong, but i don't think there can be any arguing with the fact you have more control over your car if you are managing the gears like this.

[TRL]

I shall come from another angle, You may well be in control of you car, but the person behind you soon loses control when there are no bloody break lights on show and you are suddenly up the chuff of the car in front

 

So accidents both ways.

 

Now in my experience Breakers don't often use gear changes to slow, and gear changers rarely use breaks to slow until they are near to the junction/traffic lights they are approaching.

 

A happy medium must be reached!

[RedRock]

I shall come from another angle, You may well be in control of you car, but the person behind you soon loses control when there are no bloody break lights on show and you are suddenly up the chuff of the car in front

So accidents both ways.

Now in my experience Breakers don't often use gear changes to slow, and gear changers rarely use breaks to slow until they are near to the junction/traffic lights they are approaching.

A happy medium must be reached!

Simples. The happy medium is for people to keep their distance and be aware of their surroundings/ the road ahead. If approaching a junction people slow down.

Just an example of how stupid the training is. On a motorbike slowing down with brakes and dropping down gears because of a queue ahead some stupid woman pulls out 5 metres in front of me from a side road to the left, she's looking left completely oblivious to my presence. I had three options: 1) brake and slide under the car decapitating myself 2) swerve into oncoming traffic with a head- on and likely fatal injuries or into a wall with the same consequences or 3) as I was in the right gear blast open the throttle and pull out around her car and swerve back into lane.

True story - top of Falcondale Road about 30 years ago and if I followed current advice I would be dead.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

Brake and gear down always. I wouldn't just brake.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

On the bike I'll change down through the gears.

 

In the car I'll stay in the wrong gear and slow with the brakes.

[You Do The Dziekanowski]

Accelerate in 1st slow down in 5th

Is that not the correct way to do it?

[Fordy62]

The police usually drive in one gear below where they should be, this is because in the event of needing to pull away rapidly they can just stamp on the throttle.

So never buy an ex-police car; the engine will be showing much more wear than the mileage would indicate.

This is there or there abouts.

[...]

........ one advantage of buying an ex-police car is that you are quite unlikely to get pulled over for anything.

 

You just have to wear police uniform at all times.

 

"Simples".

[Pickle Rick]

Brake and gear down always. I wouldn't just brake.

Indeed, engine torque through the gearbox assists when braking in a controlled manner.

Similar technology is used with hybrids where the brakes aren't actually used when slowing down. Look up 'regenerative braking' if you want to know more.

The principle when going downhill; select a lower gear to maintain both vehicle stability, vehicle performance response and to assist if/when braking.

You will prolong the lifespan of your brakes and not cause any harm to the engine/gearbox. This may not be the case if you've an automatic and going downhill.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Indeed, engine torque through the gearbox assists when braking in a controlled manner.

Similar technology is used with hybrids where the brakes aren't actually used when slowing down. Look up 'regenerative braking' if you want to know more.

The principle when going downhill; select a lower gear to maintain both vehicle stability, vehicle performance response and to assist if/when braking.

You will prolong the lifespan of your brakes and not cause any harm to the engine/gearbox. This may not be the case if you've an automatic and going downhill.

 

I cannot stand people who so much as touch their brakes going down hill unless in heavy traffic. Same for people who brake on motorways/dual carriageways. Pick the right gear. Saying that I'm 19 and whilst being taught to drive I was never told to slow down using the gears, always just the brakes.  

[Pickle Rick]

I cannot stand people who so much as touch their brakes going down hill unless in heavy traffic. Same for people who brake on motorways/dual carriageways. Pick the right gear. Saying that I'm 19 and whilst being taught to drive I was never told to slow down using the gears, always just the brakes.

It's how you should be taught, in basic principle to be fair.

Using engine torque through the gearbox to slow down is something you pick up yourself. Not a technique to teach a beginner!

[Welcome To The Jungle]

It's how you should be taught, in basic principle to be fair.

Using engine torque through the gearbox to slow down is something you pick up yourself. Not a technique to teach a beginner!

 

If you can't drive a car then you shouldn't be driving. We've all got a lift with someone who you cannot believe has a licence, and they could have been driving for a few weeks or a few decades. It is way too easy to get a driving licence for a car. 

[TRL]

I cannot stand people who so much as touch their brakes going down hill unless in heavy traffic. Same for people who brake on motorways/dual carriageways. Pick the right gear. Saying that I'm 19 and whilst being taught to drive I was never told to slow down using the gears, always just the brakes.  

So something happens on the motorway that causes you to engine break because you have good sight of it, a car behind you is moving at 70 - 80 miles an hour your engine braking has taken you down to 60-50,  they see no break lights........  what happens next?!  You tell me what happens to your reaction times even if you think you have enough reaction time when there is no warning light from ahead.  after all that is what the bloody brake lights are for, you are loon if you truly believe what you are saying, and a very dangerous person to have on the road if that is your chosen form of breaking.

 

I think you may learn a lot more about driving once you are older, you are under the pretence that everyone drives a perfect distance away from one another in perfect driving conditions with no idiots on the road.  If you happened to live in this driving utopia, your thoughts on good driving may have some mileage.

 

Edit likewise you theory would also have merit if all cars were made the same.  but a 50 year old car and a brand new super car for instance, handle very differently to both forms of braking

 

Automatic drivers must really piss you off

[...]

Interesting thread on a footy forum.

 

In any given situation, the question is always 'what is the safest thing to do'?

 

If you NEED to slow down, and you use your brakes, the driver behind knows you might be slowing down or stopping. If you use only gears, the situation is less clear. Which is safer? That is why Roadcraft says 'gears are for go, brakes are for slow'.

 

I think Jeremy Clarkson is very funny, in an oafish, pig-ignorant way. Good comedy television, but some of his ideas about how to drive are blatantly dangerous, and go against what any instructor of training course will tell you. His style of driving is reserved for a racetrack, not public roads, and it is worrying to here more (typically young) drivers repeating his style of 'advice'. E.g. No speed cameras / no speed limits / no concern for the environment / everyone else get out of my way.

 

Anyone who thinks they know better than the Highway Code or Roadcraft needs to sit down, and have a think about fundamental road safety.

 

Good thread though.

 

 

TFR

[RedRock]

Simple answer to 'what is the safest' is a driver that is fully in control of his vehicle.

I'm not advocating gears only, I'm arguing that you brake and gear down to ensure you are in the right gear for the speed you're travelling.

Patently, you are not in control of your vehicle if you are travelling at 5mph in 6th gear. This is dangerous but gobsmackingly is what driving instructors/the Highway Code and the Police preach. In the case I cited above it would, without any doubt, resulted in me being killed.

Why no one in authority questions this advice is just amazing. A case of 'The Emperor's Clothes' me thinks.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

So something happens on the motorway that causes you to engine break because you have good sight of it, a car behind you is moving at 70 - 80 miles an hour your engine braking has taken you down to 60-50,  they see no break lights........  what happens next?!  You tell me what happens to your reaction times even if you think you have enough reaction time when there is no warning light from ahead.  after all that is what the bloody brake lights are for, you are loon if you truly believe what you are saying, and a very dangerous person to have on the road if that is your chosen form of breaking.

 

I think you may learn a lot more about driving once you are older, you are under the pretence that everyone drives a perfect distance away from one another in perfect driving conditions with no idiots on the road.  If you happened to live in this driving utopia, your thoughts on good driving may have some mileage.

 

Edit likewise you theory would also have merit if all cars were made the same.  but a 50 year old car and a brand new super car for instance, handle very differently to both forms of braking

 

Automatic drivers must really piss you off

 

I'm not talking about using your brakes for actually slowing down. In your scenario my brakes would probably be used and the same on hills. My hate comes from people being unable to maintain a constant speed. People who accelerate to 75 then brake to 65, then accelerate and brake. The same kind of people who sit in the middle lane all the way. 

 

I ride a motorbike and I've been riding for over 2 years and I know that drivers are far from perfect with people pulling out on me and not letting me filter by intentionally blocking. I know I am far from perfect, but I'd describe myself as more than competent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Automatics can just jog on. Drove one once, awful. So much less control as I don't get to pick the gears. 

[TRL]

I'm not talking about using your brakes for actually slowing down. In your scenario my brakes would probably be used and the same on hills. My hate comes from people being unable to maintain a constant speed. People who accelerate to 75 then brake to 65, then accelerate and brake. The same kind of people who sit in the middle lane all the way. 

 

I ride a motorbike and I've been riding for over 2 years and I know that drivers are far from perfect with people pulling out on me and not letting me filter by intentionally blocking. I know I am far from perfect, but I'd describe myself as more than competent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Automatics can just jog on. Drove one once, awful. So much less control as I don't get to pick the gears. 

well in that respect i agree with you, but that, isn't in my experience, most people do not hit brakes willy  nilly , and generally do so because of lorry pulling out at 55mph, when the one they are overtaking is going 54mph. i realise the hardships Lorry drivers have in getting up to speed and staying there, but for a 1 to 2 mph gain, i never understand the need to get in the middle lane.  The same with car drivers in the middle lane going 60.

 

I kind of sympathise with your experiences as a motorcycle driver, but there is a very visible few that give you guys a bad name who think they can drive everywhere with no indication and no care for lane control,best lumped in with BMW drivers, who never ask for that optional extra... a indicator stalk

[Barrs Court Red]

I use my anchor.

[...]

Motorcyclists are in NO position to be critical of any other road user: it is rare to see one not either riding dangerously, or blatantly breaking the speed limit.

 

Considering the undoubted vulnerability of anyone on two wheels, they have a cheek commenting on drivers when a significant proportion of them have no respect for anything in the highway code.

 

High time the coppers started coming down hard on these hooligans of the road.

 

Harsh, but fair.

 

Naughty 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Motorcyclists are in NO position to be critical of any other road user: it is rare to see one not either riding dangerously, or blatantly breaking the speed limit.

 

Considering the undoubted vulnerability of anyone on two wheels, they have a cheek commenting on drivers when a significant proportion of them have no respect for anything in the highway code.

 

High time the coppers started coming down hard on these hooligans of the road.

 

Harsh, but fair.

 

Naughty 

 

Making lots of blind assumptions based on the loud minority of bikers regarding how I ride. 

 

Naughty 

[...]

Look, mate.

 

I just drove to the supermarket and back, in my 'car', and nearly killed at least 1/2 dozen bikers.

 

Proof bikers are dangerous idiots.

 

I've never seen such naughtiness on the public highway.

 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Look, mate.

 

I just drove to the supermarket and back, in my 'car', and nearly killed at least 1/2 dozen bikers.

 

Proof bikers are dangerous idiots.

 

I've never seen such naughtiness on the public highway.

 

 

If you nearly killed them, that would make it your fault. Prowper Nawty 

[...]

Show me a motorcycle with an airbag?

 

No: these guys don't give a s**t about their own safety, and don't seem to give a t**s about anyone elses.

 

Motorcyclists bible:-

 

- What is a solid white line for? Ans: to overtake all those car-blebs who can't overtake in a line of traffic.

 

- What is the national speed limit on a single carraigeway? Ans: 90 mph.

 

- What do you do when there is a queue of cars waiting at a red light? Ans: drive over the solid white line, overtake them all, pull in infront of the first car, and stop over the solid stop line.

 

- What are indicators? Ans: We've got no bleedin idea.

 

- Do you own the entire road network on bank holidays? Ans: Yes - it says so in the Road Traffic Act, but some car users still have the cheek to venture out.

 

- In the highly unlikely event of you not exceeding any given speed limit by 30 mph, what speed should you ride at? Ans: 20 mph UNDER the speed limit, and 15 foot out from the kerb, causing a 2 mile tailback worthy of a caravanist.

 

- In a busy carpark, do you park in a space set aside for motorcycles, or take up a whole car space? Ans: Whole car space.

 

- When parking in a line of cars along a road, do you park at right-angles to the kerb, or along the kerb, taking up three-times more space than is needed? Ans: whatever narks car drivers the most.

 

- Are car drivers allowed to make the slightest innocent driving error, while you can drive like the devil incarnate at all times? Ans: no, 'burn in hell car drivers'.

 

- Do you drive a car, but none of the general criticism you fling at car drivers suddenly not apply to you when you are in your 1993 1.6D focus? Ans: yes, but I will not admit to ever having driven a car, or my arguments are totally negated.

 

"I thank you".

 

Incredible, brass-necked naughtiness.

 

     

[BS34Red]

I put it into neautral when coming to a stop or going down a hill. Brakes are cheaper to replace. Going down through the gears is just putting excessive wear on the engine, clutch and gear box. On the subject of motorways in really annoys me when I see people braking on a motorway. There is only a couple of reasons to brake on a motorway and that is when exitin and to avoid a accident. In all other instances you can brake by taking foot off the throttle by paying attention and looking what is happening a couple of cars ahead. I very rarely use brakes on the motorway, the main reason being if I brake then the twn cars behind me also brakes and then we end up with those ghost traffic jams on motorways thaypu often see and get frustrated by.

[...]

'Coasting' is illegal, apparently.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Show me a motorcycle with an airbag?

 

No: these guys don't give a s**t about their own safety, and don't seem to give a t**s about anyone elses.

 

Motorcyclists bible:-

 

- What is a solid white line for? Ans: to overtake all those car-blebs who can't overtake in a line of traffic.

 

You may cross a solid white line to overtake stationary vehicles as long as it is safe to do so. Anyone crossing them on any other occasion is wrong and I agree with you. 

 

- What is the national speed limit on a single carraigeway? Ans: 90 mph.

 

?Only if your a sportbike riding wannabe. (loud minority)

 

- What do you do when there is a queue of cars waiting at a red light? Ans: drive over the solid white line, overtake them all, pull in infront of the first car, and stop over the solid stop line.

 

See first answer with the addition of letting a bike filter and go first eases congestion <---- fact! Crossing the stop line is technically illegal but in everyone's best interest. 

 

- What are indicators? Ans: We've got no bleedin idea.

 

Front and rear of the bike to inform other road users of intended direction change. Hope this helps.

 

- Do you own the entire road network on bank holidays? Ans: Yes - it says so in the Road Traffic Act, but some car users still have the cheek to venture out.

 

We do actually. 

 

- In the highly unlikely event of you not exceeding any given speed limit by 30 mph, what speed should you ride at? Ans: 20 mph UNDER the speed limit, and 15 foot out from the kerb, causing a 2 mile tailback worthy of a caravanist.

 

Blame the government for restricting engine sizes on new motorcyclists. 

 

- In a busy carpark, do you park in a space set aside for motorcycles, or take up a whole car space? Ans: Whole car space.

 

I'll park in the closest space I'm entitled to where I want to be like anyone else.

 

- When parking in a line of cars along a road, do you park at right-angles to the kerb, or along the kerb, taking up three-times more space than is needed? Ans: whatever narks car drivers the most.

 

Depends completely on how steep the rake of the road is. Must change the angle to stop the bike falling over on its stand. 

 

- Are car drivers allowed to make the slightest innocent driving error, while you can drive like the devil incarnate at all times? Ans: no, 'burn in hell car drivers'.

 

?If you can't see a 100 watt lightbulb attached to a vehicle making a loud noise and you pull out endangering our lives then yes, you are a moron. 

 

- Do you drive a car, but none of the general criticism you fling at car drivers suddenly not apply to you when you are in your 1993 1.6D focus? Ans: yes, but I will not admit to ever having driven a car, or my arguments are totally negated.

 

I am yet to cut up or near miss any vehicle in a car. I'm sure I will, I'm not a God of driving, but by engaging my brain I have avoided such incidents so far. 

 

"I thank you".

 

No Problem

 

Incredible, brass-necked naughtiness.

 

     

 

[...]

[Pickle Rick]

I put it into neautral when coming to a stop or going down a hill. Brakes are cheaper to replace. Going down through the gears is just putting excessive wear on the engine, clutch and gear box. On the subject of motorways in really annoys me when I see people braking on a motorway. There is only a couple of reasons to brake on a motorway and that is when exitin and to avoid a accident. In all other instances you can brake by taking foot off the throttle by paying attention and looking what is happening a couple of cars ahead. I very rarely use brakes on the motorway, the main reason being if I brake then the twn cars behind me also brakes and then we end up with those ghost traffic jams on motorways thaypu often see and get frustrated by.

 

 

You don't know much about cars, do you?