The Experience V Youth Debate

[lou-peters-dive]

Can we call SC Cotts ? I get really confused with that other bloke.

It's an age thing you know.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I really don't care anymore mate... I don't think anyone knows who is in charge of recruitment at this Club anymore.

 

You hear one thing from the Club, and then another from people within the game.

 

I would like it, if the Club was a little more transparent and informative to it's fans, as to who does what and when things change.

 

The misunderstanding and quotes made to the press I often feel lead to the disharmony amongst fans.

 

Like has been alluded too... It's probably not wise to scrutinise what SC, the Club or any manager say's to the press.

It's often smoke and mirrors and just plain waffle and soundbites.

 

This whole episode of SC or any manager quoting about ages of players, experience, hot dinners, girlfriends and marriage, nightlife in Bristol ( like no other City has great nightlife and it's just a problem for youngsters coming here...  ) is just total bull.... I would rather a manager said nothing, instead of spouting stuff that could be used against you or make fans make the wrong judgements, or as has been seen on here....a certain amount of disharmony amongst fans.

 

What has become apparent, is that certain fans think others have 'agendas' which just isn't true...and it's a muddy stick that is used in posts when it suits.

 

Half the things argued about on here, wouldn't be argued about, if the managers and clubs didn't spout bull and waffle to their paying support.

 

There is a thread presently going, on this forum, about fans feeling disengaged with the Club...from my own perspective....what I've heard from friends and colleagues, is that they just don't believe what is said by the board and most managers, and that they feel the Club treat them as idiots. The 'bigger' a Club becomes, the more they seem to get away with that. This is why smaller Clubs often feel like they appreciate their fans more imho. They are often more transparent and more engaging and truthful with their paying support.

 

From my own perspective... I tend to believe what I'm told personally by people who work in the game, rather than what I read through the media...as so far, they have been more accurate.

 

There you go the highlighted bit is spot on.

 

As for the very last sentence, do you really believe that statement?.

[spudski]

There you go the highlighted bit is spot on.

 

As for the very last sentence, do you really believe that statement?.

Why do you feel the need to keep this going fella?

 

SC, Burt or whoever...has made some sound investments...as for who thinks what on here...makes no difference.

 

As for my last sentence...of course I believe that. I don't share everything I hear on here, and as time passes, pretty much everything I've been told comes into light.

Why would I believe media over people that work in the game and have no agenda or care what I think...especially when they know they will be seeing me again?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Why do you feel the need to keep this going fella?

 

SC, Burt or whoever...has made some sound investments...as for who thinks what on here...makes no difference.

 

As for my last sentence...of course I believe that. I don't share everything I hear on here, and as time passes, pretty much everything I've been told comes into light.

Why would I believe media over people that work in the game and have no agenda or care what I think...especially when they know they will be seeing me again?

 

Because virtually everything you have been complaining was wrong with the club since the demise of SOD, has been addressed, the only thing left for you is Brian Tinnion and the lack of a budget and who knows that might even be next or perhaps as my late father and great BCFC fan used to say 'always leave them with something to moan about'. You have pretty much what you have campaigned for I would say.

 

if you stop micro scrutinising every single sound byte that SC utters and stop trying to read between the lines that might help, he is an ex footballer and current manager, he is not Stephen Fry and nor is any manager that I can think of.

 

The good news is only 3 things can go wrong, injuries, bad tactics/selections/substitutions or just bad play from the players, oh hang on I forgot about the bright lights of Bristol.

 

I promise that's my last word for a while, I have a very busy week ahead.

 

Have a nice day.

[Harry]

Or not..................

 

 

of course it might have been the other way around, SC tricking Harry all along?.

 

No more tears over the missing 5th pillar please, it seems to be still in place.

 

 

Still i'm your you'll find something else.

 

 

Seems to me that people were jumping the gun and having a go at SC and his recruitment policy with no substance other than SCs ramble about 25-28 year olds.

 

 

 

prob were but that wouldn't fit in with the agenda

 

Not sure why there's all the "anti-Harry" agenda going on here??

When I started this thread on 26th May, I was asking if the club should consider signing a few 21-24 year olds.  SC's comments to the press suggested he was limiting his target market to 26-28 year olds.

However these signings have come about, I'd say this is surely proving my original point to be correct!  Not sure why some folk on here are attempting to 'get one over' on me, seems like a lot of one-upmanship.

Ultimately, I was pointing out the need to sign some 21-24 year olds, and not to focus on 26-28's.  I'm very happy with the signings so far, so unsure why people are getting fruity about it!

[spudski]

Because virtually everything you have been complaining was wrong with the club since the demise of SOD, has been addressed, the only thing left for you is Brian Tinnion and the lack of a budget and who knows that might even be next or perhaps as my late father and great BCFC fan used to say 'always leave them with something to moan about'. You have pretty much what you have campaigned for I would say.

 

if you stop micro scrutinising every single sound byte that SC utters and stop trying to read between the lines that might help, he is an ex footballer and current manager, he is not Stephen Fry and nor is any manager that I can think of.

 

The good news is only 3 things can go wrong, injuries, bad tactics/selections/substitutions or just bad play from the players, oh hang on I forgot about the bright lights of Bristol.

 

I promise that's my last word for a while, I have a very busy week ahead.

 

Have a nice day.

I really don't understand you fella... if the Club are eventually addressing issues that I and others have spoken about for a while, then surely that is a good thing?

 

The fact it's taken bloody years to address is neither here nor their...

 

Why do you feel the need raise this time and time again?

 

If the Club are going in the right direction ...great.

 

Everyone on here, that has spoken about issues in the past, are happy that the Club seems to be taking a new direction in recruiting young hungry players. The fact they are doing so is fantastic.

 

Actions speak louder than words...and the Clubs actions in recruiting these players, goes against everything SC spouted recently in the press. If he hadn't spoken those words...this debate would have never been created.

 

It's not a case of scrutinising what he said...read what he said...he went into great detail of the type of player he supposedly was looking for.

 

If you actually read my posts properly...how many times???     You would see that I said I rarely believe what I read in the media.

 

However...when you see who he brought in last season...and those comments 3 weeks ago...it's easy to understand why a few of us were worried that he might be bringing in older players on longer contracts... The fact it seems he isn't...is fantastic.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I really don't understand you fella... if the Club are eventually addressing issues that I and others have spoken about for a while, then surely that is a good thing?

 

The fact it's taken bloody years to address is neither here nor their...

 

Why do you feel the need raise this time and time again?

 

If the Club are going in the right direction ...great.

 

Everyone on here, that has spoken about issues in the past, are happy that the Club seems to be taking a new direction in recruiting young hungry players. The fact they are doing so is fantastic.

 

Actions speak louder than words...and the Clubs actions in recruiting these players, goes against everything SC spouted recently in the press. If he hadn't spoken those words...this debate would have never been created.

 

It's not a case of scrutinising what he said...read what he said...he went into great detail of the type of player he supposedly was looking for.

 

If you actually read my posts properly...how many times???     You would see that I said I rarely believe what I read in the media.

 

However...when you see who he brought in last season...and those comments 3 weeks ago...it's easy to understand why a few of us were worried that he might be bringing in older players on longer contracts... The fact it seems he isn't...is fantastic.

 

Not for the first time you have definitely lost me.

 

You don't believe what you read in the press but are pissed off about an article that SC made to the press.

[spudski]

Not for the first time you have definitely lost me.

 

You don't believe what you read in the press but are pissed off about an article that SC made to the press.

Read my last sentence fella...and you might actually get it.

[stephenkibby.]

Read my last sentence fella...and you might actually get it.

jesus wept lads, points scoring is nearly over,roll on the new season looks like some cracking signings.

I for one couldn't give a rats shit who brought them in.

things seem to be looking up for our club and if we start well the gate could be full every game!!

 

so for just once it could be onwards and upwards.

[Kid in the Riot]

You've watered it down since your original post.

You had a right dig at SC at that time, now its anti-Harry and one-upmanship.

SC has made you look a bit of a tit mate - no one-upmanship as there is no point because we are obviously heading in the right direction, no anti-Harry because that isn't at all important. Just pointing out the obvious thats all.

Carry on as I'm sure you will, I'm out of it.

Seeing as tho you and Noggers were agreeing that we should sign experience over youth earlier in this thread then I'd say thus far SC has made you look like a bit of a "tit", as you so eloquently put it, as well.

[spudski]

The only person that looks like a tit....is the manager who spouts....

 

"Now I want to be looking at a few 25, 26 and 27-year-olds. The reason I say that is because Bristol is a wonderful city, but when young boys come here and they find the nightlife and the restaurants and the bars and the clubs, it causes you a bit of a problem.

"I'd rather them be 25, 26 or 27 and married with two children. Then they can go home every night and have a nice dinner cooked for them and watch the TV. They come into training the next day and do exactly the same thing. Don't get me wrong, we'd love to have some good young players coming in. But we've got young ones here already."....

 

and then goes out and buys the younger players....

 

Call it Bull...smoke and mirrors...whatever... good signings whoever signed them. But I would wish he would keep his mouth shut more...he witters utter tripe to the media.

 

Hence why I choose to dismiss most things said to the media by football managers, unless their actions have proved otherwise.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Read my last sentence fella...and you might actually get it.

 

I have read your last sentence and you are correct I have now 'got it', this is you happy.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Seeing as tho you and Noggers were agreeing that we should sign experience over youth earlier in this thread then I'd say thus far SC has made you look like a bit of a "tit", as you so eloquently put it, as well.

 

I see Little (age 25/186 apps.) Smith (23/148) and Freeman (22/130) as being just such experienced players.

 

They all have at least 5 seasons in league football behind them and, though a couple are younger than Cotterill's original statement, these are not novices, they are accomplished proven players.

 

Cotterill is signing players with youth AND experience, and really solid, ambitious pros. by the looks of it.

 

Both sides of the original argument will be pleased with these signings, as far as I'm concerned time to leave it at that.

[redcherryberry]

I see Little (age 25/186 apps.) Smith (23/148) and Freeman (22/130) as being just such experienced players.

 

They all have at least 5 seasons in league football behind them and, though a couple are younger than Cotterill's original statement, these are not novices, they are accomplished proven players.

 

Cotterill is signing players with youth AND experience, and really solid, ambitious pros. by the looks of it.

 

Both sides of the original argument will be pleased with these signings, as far as I'm concerned time to leave it at that.

 

Exactly how I see it. Well said Nogbad

[RedRaw]

The only person that looks like a tit....is the manager who spouts....

"Now I want to be looking at a few 25, 26 and 27-year-olds. The reason I say that is because Bristol is a wonderful city, but when young boys come here and they find the nightlife and the restaurants and the bars and the clubs, it causes you a bit of a problem.

"I'd rather them be 25, 26 or 27 and married with two children. Then they can go home every night and have a nice dinner cooked for them and watch the TV. They come into training the next day and do exactly the same thing. Don't get me wrong, we'd love to have some good young players coming in. But we've got young ones here already."....

and then goes out and buys the younger players....

.

Mark little is 25 and has a child.......

[Kid in the Riot]

I see Little (age 25/186 apps.) Smith (23/148) and Freeman (22/130) as being just such experienced players.

They all have at least 5 seasons in league football behind them and, though a couple are younger than Cotterill's original statement, these are not novices, they are accomplished proven players.

Cotterill is signing players with youth AND experience, and really solid, ambitious pros. by the looks of it.

Both sides of the original argument will be pleased with these signings, as far as I'm concerned time to leave it at that.

Your original comments in this thread did say "SC is right we ideally need to be signing 25-28 year olds" but I take your points above.

Makes a change to not be signing players who've played 20 odd games in the past 3 seasons...

[spudski]

 

Mark little is 25 and has a child.......

Well he'd better get at it then...'cos apparently SC wants them with 2 children.

 

Plus does his missus cook him his dinners when he gets home? You don't want him going out and getting up to mischief in those crazy Bristol Restaurants and Bars...you never know what trouble that might lead too...  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Your original comments in this thread did say "SC is right we ideally need to be signing 25-28 year olds" but I take your points above.

Makes a change to not be signing players who've played 20 odd games in the past 3 seasons...

 

The bottom line is this.

 

I would hope that signing the best players that are available in the positions that need strengthening and fall within our wage structure is the most important point of all, if these players do not fall into an age category that the manager mentioned 3 weeks ago in an interview and especially if those players are younger than suggested, so what, surely it's a good thing?, the fact that some people bizarrely are trying once more to use this sound byte as yet another stick to beat SC which is simply pathetic as is the taking the piss out of the married/children sound byte, just look how out of control the club including the younger players had become prior to GJ taking over and even during GJ's one or two still thought it was OK.

[spudski]

The bottom line is this.

 

I would hope that signing the best players that are available in the positions that need strengthening and fall within our wage structure is the most important point of all, if these players do not fall into an age category that the manager mentioned 3 weeks ago in an interview and especially if those players are younger than suggested, so what, surely it's a good thing?, the fact that some people bizarrely are trying once more to use this sound byte as yet another stick to beat SC which is simply pathetic as is the taking the piss out of the married/children sound byte, just look how out of control the club including the younger players had become prior to GJ taking over and even during GJ's one or two still thought it was OK.

Mate....if a forum member had come on here and said...

 

''We should be signing  25, 26 and 27-year-olds. The reason I say that is because Bristol is a wonderful city, and when young boys come here and they find the nightlife and the restaurants and the bars and the clubs, it causes us a bit of a problem.

"I'd rather them be 25, 26 or 27 and married with two children. Then they can go home every night and have a nice dinner cooked for them and watch the TV.''....

 

You would be laughing your socks off, and taking the preverbial pish. Just because it's SC that say's it...it's ok then?

It's total utter twaddle...he doesn't need to talk such crap to the press for us to read. Neither does any other manager.

 

No one is 'bashing' SC.

 

I would say 99% of fans want him to succeed and make the right decisions...which from his actions so far....they are speaking far louder than the twaddle that comes out of his mouth. He doesn't need to do it.

 

Like I alluded to before.... SC came in last season and loaned in some older pros with experience, and was manager here when we signed El Abd on a 3 1/2  year deal. Then 3 weeks ago, said that the board had got used to signing older players in their 30's, and the twaddle about age ranges and home cooked dinners.... Any fan would be justified in questioning what was going to happen based on his previous signings and what he had said to the press only 3 weeks ago.

 

Thankfully....it seems he has gone against the majority of what he has said publicly. Everyone who questioned his ideas, I should imagine, are very happy with his recent signings....myself included.

 

These signings hopefully will gel and we will kick on and have a decent season.

 

There is only one thing I'd like SC to add....and that's a zip to his mouth.

Colleagues at Forest and Burnley all said to me when he signed for us, that we would soon get fed up with what crap comes out of his mouth....how right they are.

 

All I want....are his actions to speak far louder than his words....so far that seems to be the case.

 

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism mate....he doesn't need to talk so much twaddle....that is all....

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Mate....if a forum member had come on here and said...

 

''We should be signing  25, 26 and 27-year-olds. The reason I say that is because Bristol is a wonderful city, and when young boys come here and they find the nightlife and the restaurants and the bars and the clubs, it causes us a bit of a problem.

"I'd rather them be 25, 26 or 27 and married with two children. Then they can go home every night and have a nice dinner cooked for them and watch the TV.''....

 

You would be laughing your socks off, and taking the preverbial pish. Just because it's SC that say's it...it's ok then?

It's total utter twaddle...he doesn't need to talk such crap to the press for us to read. Neither does any other manager.

 

No one is 'bashing' SC.

 

I would say 99% of fans want him to succeed and make the right decisions...which from his actions so far....they are speaking far louder than the twaddle that comes out of his mouth. He doesn't need to do it.

 

Like I alluded to before.... SC came in last season and loaned in some older pros with experience, and was manager here when we signed El Abd on a 3 1/2  year deal. Then 3 weeks ago, said that the board had got used to signing older players in their 30's, and the twaddle about age ranges and home cooked dinners.... Any fan would be justified in questioning what was going to happen based on his previous signings and what he had said to the press only 3 weeks ago.

 

Thankfully....it seems he has gone against the majority of what he has said publicly. Everyone who questioned his ideas, I should imagine, are very happy with his recent signings....myself included.

 

These signings hopefully will gel and we will kick on and have a decent season.

 

There is only one thing I'd like SC to add....and that's a zip to his mouth.

Colleagues at Forest and Burnley all said to me when he signed for us, that we would soon get fed up with what crap comes out of his mouth....how right they are.

 

All I want....are his actions to speak far louder than his words....so far that seems to be the case.

 

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism mate....he doesn't need to talk so much twaddle....that is all....

 

You're entitled to your opinion of course you are, but as ever you seem pretty much to be a loan voice, but that's the way you like it.

[spudski]

You're entitled to your opinion of course you are, but as ever you seem pretty much to be a loan voice, but that's the way you like it.

Maybe on this forum fella...but everyone I know outside of this forum thinks the same.

 

Either way...like I said...his actions are speaking far louder than his words, which is great.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Maybe on this forum fella...but everyone I know outside of this forum thinks the same.

 

Either way...like I said...his actions are speaking far louder than his words, which is great.

 

i've got an idea, why don't you write his interviews for him?, that might cheer you and all the ITK's outside of this forum.

[spudski]

i've got an idea, why don't you write his interviews for him?, that might cheer you and all the ITK's outside of this forum.

I know...why don't you actually start understanding and reading peoples posts correctly....that way you might understand that the majority of us ARE happy...because he has gone mainly against what he said he was going to do...

 

I'm sure you're just on a wind up half the time...no one can be that blinkered and have the inability to read posts and misunderstand them like you do. I think you quiet like animosity... keep taking the tablets fellow City fan    

[Harry]

You've watered it down since your original post.

 

You had a right dig at SC at that time, now its anti-Harry and one-upmanship.

 

SC has made you look a bit of a tit mate - no one-upmanship as there is no point because we are obviously heading in the right direction, no anti-Harry because that isn't at all important. Just pointing out the obvious thats all.

 

Carry on as I'm sure you will, I'm out of it.

 

Why have I been made to look like a "tit"?

I've wanted us to sign players in the 21-24 bracket who have something about them.  I was disappointed with the "perceived" transfer policy that SC quoted, and I feel was perfectly justified in questioning that.

Now that he has signed they type of player I always wanted, I am more than happy and give SC a well deserved pat on the back.

 

Why does it make me a tit for wanting what we've actually gone and done?

The "tits" are the people who come on here and slag other people opinions off, and remind them 28 days later that they said something challenging that didn't bear out.

 

My comments were fully justified at the time.  Now that SC has seemingly amended his transfer policy, I am delighted.  If things carry on down this road, then I have no beef with anyone, so no need to "carry on, as I'm sure you will".

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Why have I been made to look like a "tit"?

I've wanted us to sign players in the 21-24 bracket who have something about them.  I was disappointed with the "perceived" transfer policy that SC quoted, and I feel was perfectly justified in questioning that.

Now that he has signed they type of player I always wanted, I am more than happy and give SC a well deserved pat on the back.

 

Why does it make me a tit for wanting what we've actually gone and done?

The "tits" are the people who come on here and slag other people opinions off, and remind them 28 days later that they said something challenging that didn't bear out.

 

My comments were fully justified at the time.  Now that SC has seemingly amended his transfer policy, I am delighted.  If things carry on down this road, then I have no beef with anyone, so no need to "carry on, as I'm sure you will".

 

Harry and as far as I can see nobody has slagged any of your opinions off, what they have slagged off is stuff that you claimed to be fact and turned out not to be, there is a difference.