Rich Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well you have to go back further than that to get us with 16k average in the second tier.For one of Britain's largest cities (both City and Rovers) attendance is poor and that is NOT only down to lack of success.The fact that Sheff Utd languishing well below us in L1 have much larger crowds week in, week out - and they are their city's least successful team, should tell you something about differences between cities in the north of England and Bristol.2008 was 16.2k and 2009 was 16.8k, so not that far back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 2008 was 16.2k and 2009 was 16.8k, so not that far back. Take the few big games out and look at the median Well below that on an average week. No comparison whatsoever with Newcastle which was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Too numerous to mention but, main reasons are a bit like the chicken and egg syndrome. Initial success in early years was followed by lack of investment leading to stagnation. Gas joined the league (for a while) and held us back by splitting the football supporting working classes of the relatively affluent city. We probably have a football fanbase in Bristol of a smaller city such as, Coventry, Derby or Leicester to draw our support from, which currently is divided. The other section of population is either rugger/other sport, or not interested anyway. I don't go with this influx of people from outside the area theory. If it's that popular an area, our population would be double it's current size. Either that or all the natives have emigrated. It's about 440,000 within the boundaries and 1.1m as a large urban zone which I believe is based on the former Avon area, which was populated by nearly 1m. So there's been a population increase of about 100k since 1996. That said, I believe that with concerted effort and a decent period of sustained success, we could and should be a much bigger club representing the region, somewhat as many foreign clubs do. All we need is a transport infrastructure to get them here and the foundations being layed by the current owner to bare fruition.. In our more recent foray into the top division we averaged 23k+, 23k+, 22k+, and 19k when relegated, all we ever did was stay there and struggle, we briefly looked like we might progress but cock ups happened and no money was invested, the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Take the few big games out and look at the median Well below that on an average week. No comparison whatsoever with Newcastle which was my point. I don't think so, as we only had a real capacity of just above 19k so not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted September 15, 2014 Admin Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 No one said he is a fool (although there must be a screw working it's way loose after so many years with bcfc), but I wasn't talking about the stadium (s). He has already spent a small fortune on the whims of several managers. I would say it is more naive to assume he'd revert to a more pragmatic approach in the top flight. That's what he's in this for....we all are. Despite his business acumen, I've seem that glint in his eye, seen the gambles. What's the point if being a billionaire if you're just gonna sit on it. He's getting on a bit now too. Getting on a bit!!! He is 62, hardly a decrepit, senile figurehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I don't think so, as we only had a real capacity of just above 19k so not possible. Well that was my point, Rich. I don't want to get bogged down into minute statistical analysis, but I was comparing how City at our high points had had smaller crowds than Newcastle (a smaller city) had had in its low points. The reasons are partly down to club history, but also have a lot to do with demographics and what "sort" of city, Bristol is compared to Geordieland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Rocker Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I work in Central Bristol and rarely hear a Bristolian accent these days. In fact I don't hear that many English accents come to think of it. Such is our cosmopolitan city in 2014. That said, it's always been the case that Bristol is the most middle class and affluent city outside London. Red-Robbo is right and Spudski is wrong, our historical demographic is relatively comfortable middle class, and as such Bristol was never going to get near Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds in terms of football support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou-peters-dive Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Too numerous to mention but, main reasons are a bit like the chicken and egg syndrome. Initial success in early years was followed by lack of investment leading to stagnation. Gas joined the league (for a while) and held us back by splitting the football supporting working classes of the relatively affluent city. We probably have a football fanbase in Bristol of a smaller city such as, Coventry, Derby or Leicester to draw our support from, which currently is divided. The other section of population is either rugger/other sport, or not interested anyway. I don't go with this influx of people from outside the area theory. If it's that popular an area, our population would be double it's current size. Either that or all the natives have emigrated. It's about 440,000 within the boundaries and 1.1m as a large urban zone which I believe is based on the former Avon area, which was populated by nearly 1m. So there's been a population increase of about 100k since 1996. That said, I believe that with concerted effort and a decent period of sustained success, we could and should be a much bigger club representing the region, somewhat as many foreign clubs do. All we need is a transport infrastructure to get them here and the foundations being layed by the current owner to bare fruition.. In our more recent foray into the top division we averaged 23k+, 23k+, 22k+, and 19k when relegated, all we ever did was stay there and struggle, we briefly looked like we might progress but cock ups happened and no money was invested, the rest is history.I did do a brief google search which was fruitless, but from recollection from this debate in the past, graduates from the city's two universities are right up there in terms on long-term settlement here. Bristol University was using this fact as a selling point to perspective students. Then there is the case of the number of kids born here who subsequently settle elsewhere after graduation elsewhere. It is a factor in our low level of local interest in our football clubs, imo. It is a given assumption that 'Red Trousers' policy is to appease Bristol's left wing - people moving here, imposing their ideologies here and this is regularly derided by City supporters. You do not get this level of social conflict in city's like Newcastle because the long term natives rule the roost. That we have not had a sustained level of success, an era passed from one generation to the next, like in Derby or Nottingham, does not help either. Think it's absurd a catchment area the size of Bristol isn't on the footballing map, it's what actually triggered my user-name on here. That and the East End not being open at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Lewis Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Take the few big games out and look at the median Well below that on an average week. No comparison whatsoever with Newcastle which was my point. How about taking the small gates out and looking at the median. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 How about taking the small gates out and looking at the median. The median is the median. I attended all home games in both years and I can tell you that most games were announced as 13-15K during Johnson's wonder season. But it doesn't bloody matter about inconsequential statistics. The point is, both historic league clubs in Bristol get relatively poor attendances compared to clubs in other large cities. Or do you want to deny that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdliketoRogerMoore Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I work in Central Bristol and rarely hear a Bristolian accent these days. In fact I don't hear that many English accents come to think of it. Such is our cosmopolitan city in 2014. That said, it's always been the case that Bristol is the most middle class and affluent city outside London. Red-Robbo is right and Spudski is wrong, our historical demographic is relatively comfortable middle class, and as such Bristol was never going to get near Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds in terms of football support.i was brought up and still live in hartcliffe and there's nothing but bristol accents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 teams such as norwich, ipswich, cardiff (recently) swansa, forest, newcastle etc have all had sustained periods of sucsess and in turn built their fan bases up during this time, We haven't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Thread title reminded me of a City song of the late 60's-early seventies........ Da,da,da,da,da,da,da,............Bristol Football sung to the tune of Deep Purple's Black Night , anyone else remember it (Es?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Spud please read the first post. It asks why Bristol does not have large football crowds. It does not ask for a critique on why we might have failed in recent years. You seem not to grasp the point that other clubs can fail like us, but still attract larger attendances. In your eagerness to slag off the owner and management of Bristol City, it is you who are missing the point. Wanna talk about how much money Lansdown has spent? Fine. Do it on another thread, because it has f all to do with why Bristol has through history had smaller attendances than comparable conurbations. Where does it say that mate? All he mentions is 'size of the City'... He does ask however...'why has Bristol football been so poor over the years?'... He just happens to mention the size of our City and no other big clubs being around. The main question is 'why has Bristol Football been so poor over the years?' No mention of why does Bristol not have large crowds as you put it... Quote OP... 'Just interesting in your opinions on why Bristol football has been so poor over the years? We could and probably should have 2 teams in the championship or even you lot in the prem. For the size of our city and the lack of big clubs around why is it so bad? The sheffield clubs are going through a poor patch but have loads more happiness then the both of us lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Where does it say that mate? All he mentions is 'size of the City'... He does ask however...'why has Bristol football been so poor over the years?'... He just happens to mention the size of our City and no other big clubs being around. The main question is 'why has Bristol Football been so poor over the years?' No mention of why does Bristol not have large crowds as you put it... Quote OP... 'Just interesting in your opinions on why Bristol football has been so poor over the years? We could and probably should have 2 teams in the championship or even you lot in the prem. For the size of our city and the lack of big clubs around why is it so bad? The sheffield clubs are going through a poor patch but have loads more happiness then the both of us lately Well we're interpreting the same post differently. The majority of posts on this thread have been about why Bristol football attendances have been poor comparatively. That's a reasonable discussion, as is the underachievement you speak of. There is a link obviously. But you can't go on about Lansdown's allegedly wasted millions to explain a historical trend in place well before either of us were born. Either when it comes to crowd sizes or on-field success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If it's all down to crowd size, you would be hard pushed to find any club in the country with a zero track record of success with bigger crowds than ours. Teams such as Luton, Oxford, Oldham & Barnsley have all enjoyed more success than us over the last 40-50 years but our attendances are higher in general than any of them. Talk of demographics within the catchment area etc. is bollocks imho as football (certainly since 1990) holds an appeal across the full range of society and is certainly not the working mans game any more. Our supposed underachievement compared to clubs generally regarded as smaller than Bristol City can only be due to continual mis-management over the years and is hopefully something that, after a few false starts, SL is finally starting to sort out. I think it also helps that the gas are fast disappearing and can no longer be regarded as rivals, as far too many people in the city were more interested in that rivalry than any other kind of football success. In the long run their demise can only ever be good for Bristol City as a football club and for that I am extremely thankful for their current predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If it's all down to crowd size, you would be hard pushed to find any club in the country with a zero track record of success with bigger crowds than ours. Teams such as Luton, Oxford, Oldham & Barnsley have all enjoyed more success than us over the last 40-50 years but our attendances are higher in general than any of them. Talk of demographics within the catchment area etc. is bollocks imho as football (certainly since 1990) holds an appeal across the full range of society and is certainly not the working mans game any more. Our supposed underachievement compared to clubs generally regarded as smaller than Bristol City can only be due to continual mis-management over the years and is hopefully something that, after a few false starts, SL is finally starting to sort out. I think it also helps that the gas are fast disappearing and can no longer be regarded as rivals, as far too many people in the city were more interested in that rivalry than any other kind of football success. In the long run their demise can only ever be good for Bristol City as a football club and for that I am extremely thankful for their current predicament. But feeling a connection to Bristol does have a lot to do with whether you support one of its sides or if you continue to support from afar the team your dad did. So the fact that Bristol has a higher percentage of incomers than other cities its size IS relevant to how many people want to go along and cheer on its teams. Of course you do pick up support from the odd "foreigner" - Tony Robinson etc... But listen to the voices at Ashton Gate on matchdays and you'll be hearing overwhelmingly Bristolian /West Country accents. You have to be a huge club with a high proportion of plastics to attract fans from all over the country. At our level football is a local thing. I know newspapers. Look at local newspaper circulation figures. You'll find that the ones that do best are based in cities and towns in the Midlands and.North where there are static populations and not a lot of incomers. Incomers, as a rule, don't buy papers from places they didn't grow up in - and they don't attend L1 games in towns they have no roots in either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threshersleftboot Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Thread title reminded me of a City song of the late 60's-early seventies........ Da,da,da,da,da,da,da,............Bristol Football sung to the tune of Deep Purple's Black Night , anyone else remember it (Es?) What the F---k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If BCFC had achieved some success post and pre war...it would have made a huge difference. We had good crowds back then...even in the lower divisions...just google the stats. We were mismanaged then as well as recent years. We didn't achieve results. Our downfall came after and during our Div 1 days in the 70's...it went backwards after that both on the pitch and off it, and less and less people attended. If we had some continued success in that League we could have built a foundation...but fans left in their droves. It's hard to lose a generation of fans. People come out the woodwork to support when we do well...If we can achieve promotion and consolidate, then I'm sure we will find a few extra fans...especially with the new stands being built. But after the initial bubble...if the football is poor and we don't improve gradually on the field, people will find other alternatives to spend their money on. We need Premiership football to attract the big crowds. I keep mentioning Reading fc...but imho, they are the type of Club and what they have/are achieving we should be emulating as a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 If they fail to escape non league in the next three seasons or so, and their ground fails to be built, I seriously believe Bristol Rovers will lose a generation of fans, regardless of our progress. However, if we move up into the Championship, and follow that with a sustained period at that level, or even a push to be regular top half finishers/contenders for the play offs (not gallant one shot charlies), then this will further eat into the potential 'floating' fans, such as students and incomers, as well as cementing our status to the rest of UK football as 'Bristol's Team'. Over time, this will hopefully place Bristol football back on the map, and bring the city perhaps the sort of national standing in the game that it deserves. I say it without malice, but based on this alone, that Rovers decline has a long term positive outcome for Bristol football overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 What the F---k So, you weren't there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Getting on a bit!!! He is 62, hardly a decrepit, senile figurehead. No, but he'll be receiving his bus pass in three years and drawing on his pension... With regards to a secondary greater bristol league side, the ones that stand out for me as most likely to get a foothold are W-S-M and Bath. I suppose Bath suffers from being a rugby city, but Weston might make inroads over the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Well, I've heard the fact that Rugby is a big game advanced as an excuse. Certainly the West Country is better at Rugby than it is at football (Bristol have always been in Div 1 or 2 and Bath are former European champions). Very few places seem able to sustain decent teams at both football and Rugby (Leicester in Union and Hull in League being obvious exceptions). It IS a puzzle though, although, truth be told the same is true of Nottingham (better than Bristol but still worse than it should be), Bradford and until, say ten years ago, Stoke (Stoke is smaller but the catchment area is decent). What is clear (and this is NOT a dig) is that, unless the Bristol public falls massively in love with football soon, the City cannot sustain two teams, Ummmmmm, Gloucester not in the West Country then!? And Bristol being in Div 2 is nothing to be proud of! Not read the whole thread, got this far and had to include Gloucester in on the conversation!, but I just see our neck of the woods as rugby union country, as does most of the country, I suspect. To be honest, I'm happy with City bobbing around the Championship and League 1, I'm not in love with the PL and have no real desire to watch City run out at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc. Just doesn't appeal to me anymore As for the non league Bristol R*vers.....I'm glad to see them where they are. I revel in their demise to park football, and hope they drop even further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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