Awful

[old_eastender]

OK, so the thread title "Awful" does appear to be OTT... BUT in fairness must of the OTT responses are from those that seem to think that SC should be beyond any criticism!

 

We all know that overall we have had a fantastic start, bought really well over the summer and SC on many levels is doing a brilliant job. However, his penchant to not want to use positive subs is a valid issue. Yesterday, without doubt, that cost us 2 pts as it was one of his defensive subs, Pack, weakly losing possession on the edge of our box that directly led to their 3rd goal.

[citylad05]

to be fair, when I heard we was 3-1 up i thought yes happy days beat these maybe 5 or 6 begging for Agard hat trick! But to draw from being 3-1 up was annoying and it felt like we lost! I agree JET should be getting much more time. Should be beating teams like Fleetwood to be fair? We beat Sheff Utd at there place go 3-1 up at fleetwood and draw? NOT GOOD ENOUGH! hope we dont look back at this result at the end of the season! BUT we are still top and living the dream unbeaten so may it continue by stuffing MAC DONS!

[screech]

OK, so the thread title "Awful" does appear to be OTT... BUT in fairness must of the OTT responses are from those that seem to think that SC should be beyond any criticism!

 

We all know that overall we have had a fantastic start, bought really well over the summer and SC on many levels is doing a brilliant job. However, his penchant to not want to use positive subs is a valid issue. Yesterday, without doubt, that cost us 2 pts as it was one of his defensive subs, Pack, weakly losing possession on the edge of our box that directly led to their 3rd goal.

 

Of course you can now divulge they weren't positive subs because we drew the game.

If we had won they would have been classed as positive substitutions that saw the game out.

 

He is very much tactically aware of what is going on because his results have been fantastic since he got the job, every club will have hiccups, we will lose games we should have won, win games we should have lost and we will also draw games we should have won/or lost, that's football. Perhaps we should have won at 3 -1 up, I agree. To bring on Pack to keep the ball was a decent enough sub, he lost possesion for the goal, that's life. If it was Korey Smith does Cotterill still get the blame for a bad substitution?

The whole team will know they need to be better seeing the game out, shit happens.

[Randy Marsh]

I won't lie Pack ***** me right off. Such a liability.

[Globe Trotter]

Of course you can now divulge they weren't positive subs because we drew the game.

If we had won they would have been classed as positive substitutions that saw the game out.

 

He is very much tactically aware of what is going on because his results have been fantastic since he got the job, every club will have hiccups, we will lose games we should have won, win games we should have lost and we will also draw games we should have won/or lost, that's football. Perhaps we should have won at 3 -1 up, I agree. To bring on Pack to keep the ball was a decent enough sub, he lost possesion for the goal, that's life. If it was Korey Smith does Cotterill still get the blame for a bad substitution?

The whole team will know they need to be better seeing the game out, shit happens.

 

Quite right. I also think that the better we do the more the expectation rises from fans and in turn we can all perhaps be guilty of over analysing things and jump on any 'mistake' from players or the manager. We're in league 1 for a reason and although we've had an amazing start, mistakes will happen and we'll drop points, lose games and lump it. but hopefully not very often. 

[AshtonGreat]

OK, so the thread title "Awful" does appear to be OTT... BUT in fairness must of the OTT responses are from those that seem to think that SC should be beyond any criticism!

 

We all know that overall we have had a fantastic start, bought really well over the summer and SC on many levels is doing a brilliant job. However, his penchant to not want to use positive subs is a valid issue. Yesterday, without doubt, that cost us 2 pts as it was one of his defensive subs, Pack, weakly losing possession on the edge of our box that directly led to their 3rd goal.

 

Van Gaal just used positive subs with United in a good position - look what happened to them.

[cityexile]

Only listened to this on the radio, and whilst I agree that SC seems very conservative with subs, on this game this seems a liitle harsh.

It would have been fair, if say shortly after going 3-1 up we had made a couple of subs, gone much more defensive, inviting them on, and then drawn 3-3. We made subs at 83, 88 and 90 mins! I could make the reverse argument, that for a long time SC did exactly what many on here were suggesting, and left us pushing for a fourth. The game still seemed very open, with us sounding like we were shading the chances.

They deserved the draw, only in so much that on the day they finished a higher proportion of their chances. Some games this year, the ball has run our way. This game it ran theirs, with chances they got flying in. At the end of it we still got something.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Please tell me this is a joke thread... We're top of the league, 5 points clear and there are still people moaning!, FFS you must have been suicidal when we were bottom last season!

As a matter of fact I'm suicidal a lot of the time, see a post I made a couple of weeks ago before you make pathetic off he cuff jibes.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

OK, so the thread title "Awful" does appear to be OTT... BUT in fairness must of the OTT responses are from those that seem to think that SC should be beyond any criticism!

 

We all know that overall we have had a fantastic start, bought really well over the summer and SC on many levels is doing a brilliant job. However, his penchant to not want to use positive subs is a valid issue. Yesterday, without doubt, that cost us 2 pts as it was one of his defensive subs, Pack, weakly losing possession on the edge of our box that directly led to their 3rd goal.

Exactly what I'd like to have said if I was able. Although Awful is over the top to describe anything city are doing now, I wasn't far off with my initial analysis and use of the word in light of his substitutions.

I'm delighted where we are but I'm not naive enough to see problems that need fixing.

In the same way I'll be there backing the whole club when we have our blip, and it will happen.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Of course you can now divulge they weren't positive subs because we drew the game.

If we had won they would have been classed as positive substitutions that saw the game out.

 

He is very much tactically aware of what is going on because his results have been fantastic since he got the job, every club will have hiccups, we will lose games we should have won, win games we should have lost and we will also draw games we should have won/or lost, that's football. Perhaps we should have won at 3 -1 up, I agree. To bring on Pack to keep the ball was a decent enough sub, he lost possesion for the goal, that's life. If it was Korey Smith does Cotterill still get the blame for a bad substitution?

The whole team will know they need to be better seeing the game out, shit happens.

It was the fact hat we were still playing the same outlet balls, but with no one on the pitch capable of chasing them down, that means loss of possession, loss of possession equals pressure, it's not rocket science and I'll stand by what I said.

Of course I delighted with our start but when you see something that is glaringly obvious then you comment, as I did.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

If a player makes a mistake, maybe more than once then he's a scapegoat and fans get on his back. I merely commented that I think the manager made a mistake with his substitutions.

He's also made some great signings and got us sitting pretty at the top of the league, however it's always good to strive for perfection.

[Red-Robbo]

Why is it some people are knocking the OP.

Time and Time again on this forum, no one reads the bloody posts and what they are talking about.

He isn't saying we were awful...he is trying to discuss what he thought was negative tactics by SC.

Why can't people ad to the thread and discuss this, instead of attacking the poster and implying he's moaning.

It seems if we are doing well, you can't discuss football issues. Yet when things aren't going to plan, people over react and go ******* mental....

Why not discuss football...instead of knocking posters all the time?

I think you're on the money here, Spud.

Nothing wrong at all in talking about the match - even if we're doing well, even if we had won it. That's surely what we all do after a game. It's not being negative or failing to get behind the team or manager - it's just analysis, surely what Otib is all about.

I think Wolfie maybe should've entitled his thread "bad substitutions" or somesuch, as perhaps the title "awful" led some to leap to the wrong conclusion about what he is saying here.

[citywest30]

You can be

1. Happy with Cotterill

2. Happy we are unbeaten at the top of the league

3. Frustrated at today's substitutions which invited pressure and indirectly caused them to score

4. Disappointed we threw away a 2 goal lead against a side we could and should have beaten.

It's more likely people who didn't see the game will be less disappointed and be happy at the result and league placing like I would be but those who saw the game would have seen the impact and how we threw away the initiative.

That's my view anyway.

Agree with this. Tho even not being there, I found it extremely frustrating to throw a 2 goal lead away yet more frustrated that we didn't kill the game off by taking more of our chances before any subs were made. I don't however, see how bringing jet on would have helped. He's a luxury player and if a team is coming on strong which it sounds like Fleetwood were, then I'd prefer a Pack or Wagstaff on the pitch any day of the week. It didn't work this time but at least we can console ourselves with another point and a point further ahead than the rest.

[Will Rollason]

thread title =    = look at me. worked a treat.

[City Rocker]

It would have been fair, if say shortly after going 3-1 up we had made a couple of subs, gone much more defensive, inviting them on, and then drawn 3-3. We made subs at 83, 88 and 90 mins! I could make the reverse argument, that for a long time SC did exactly what many on here were suggesting, and left us pushing for a fourth. The game still seemed very open, with us sounding like we were shading the chances.

 

Thank you, this is a point I was trying to make earlier in the thread, but you have made it more coherently than I.

At 3-1 up we WERE still going for it. Not until we conceded the second and were looking on the back foot, did SC make a change that would in theory enable the midfield to sit a bit deeper and see the last few minutes out. Seemed to make sense at the time.

Then, sadly, one of the substitutes made an individual error in defence which, as it turned out, cost us two points. So do we blame the tactical rationality of the substitution, or the **** up by that player?

If we do call it as an 'awful' move by the manager, then for the purposes of balance we've no choice but to acknowledge the outstanding switch he made that saw Cunningham score within a minute of coming on against S****horpe - rather than talking about 'recurring tactical ineptness', or whatever it was?

 

[Portishead Red]

Terrible substitutions made AGAIN, inviting the opposition team back in the game.

Today at 3-1 we should have put Fleetwood to bed.

Instead we took off our pace/attacking outlets and tried to cling on, yet still playing the same tactics eg the balls into the channels for the likes of Agard, Bryan Freeman to chase who were at this point sat on the bench.

At 3-1 the game was crying out for JET, a player who can hold the ball up, run the channels, produce goals from nothing. His very being on the pitch means defenders doubling up on him which of course creates gaps to exploit.

We are still unbeaten and today we played a decent team.

We lost 2 points today, not down to any single player, but by inept tactics and substitutions, that's the fault of the manager and a reoccurring one at that.

The sad thing is I'd of taken a point today at 3pm.

.........oh yes I do know we are still top and unbeaten in the league, doesn't mean that there's not lessons to be learned.

Terrible substitutions made AGAIN, inviting the opposition team back in the game.

Today at 3-1 we should have put Fleetwood to bed.

Instead we took off our pace/attacking outlets and tried to cling on, yet still playing the same tactics eg the balls into the channels for the likes of Agard, Bryan Freeman to chase who were at this point sat on the bench.

At 3-1 the game was crying out for JET, a player who can hold the ball up, run the channels, produce goals from nothing. His very being on the pitch means defenders doubling up on him which of course creates gaps to exploit.

We are still unbeaten and today we played a decent team.

We lost 2 points today, not down to any single player, but by inept tactics and substitutions, that's the fault of the manager and a reoccurring one at that.

The sad thing is I'd of taken a point today at 3pm.

.........oh yes I do know we are still top and unbeaten in the league, doesn't mean that there's not lessons to be learned.

I was at Rochdale and Fleetwood and as much as I don't want to - I agree with you. We invited both on having taking off our threats and paid the price with 2 lots of dropped points. Like you say, lessons to be learnt

[reddoc]

As a matter of fact I'm suicidal a lot of the time, see a post I made a couple of weeks ago before you make pathetic off he cuff jibes.

Your also quite the little attention seeker aren't you? If your mental health is genuinely such an issue, perhaps you should avoid starting controversial threads on forums such as this where inevitably you'll receive a reaction. I didn't read that as a pathetic little jibe, seen far worse on here, but of course he hadn't read the other thread you started and didn't realize you were so 'special'.

[Red-Robbo]

Your also quite the little attention seeker aren't you? If your mental health is genuinely such an issue, perhaps you should avoid starting controversial threads on forums such as this where inevitably you'll receive a reaction. I didn't read that as a pathetic little jibe, seen far worse on here, but of course he hadn't read the other thread you started and didn't realize you were so 'special'.

 

 

Leave it out doc. The bloke has spoken at length here about his mental health issues: not, in my view, as a way of "seeking attention", but rather to explain why he may have reacted in a certain way on a thread posted recently.

 

I think his thread title is unfortunate, but when you read what he's saying, it's quite reasonable.

[Cambridge Batch Red]

Awful. - awful substitutions. OP is right. This was 2 points lost. Freeman was causing all sorts of problems before he was inexplicably taken off the field. The only sub I would of made would have been Jet for Wilbs.

[reddoc]

I know , read it, understand it and feel appropriately sympathetic. Just feel uncomfortable with people using their afflictions as a blunt weapon to silence others who decide to disagree with them.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Your also quite the little attention seeker aren't you? If your mental health is genuinely such an issue, perhaps you should avoid starting controversial threads on forums such as this where inevitably you'll receive a reaction. I didn't read that as a pathetic little jibe, seen far worse on here, but of course he hadn't read the other thread you started and didn't realize you were so 'special'.

Yeah look at me, look at me.

The complete opposite but whatever.

I just don't think suicide or joking about is funny.

It's ok for people to make reference "joking" of course to suicide, but mention cancer or a wheelchair and booooooooom.

It's people like you who keep the stigma of mental health problems, sad.

To prove I'm not an attention seeker, why not come have a chat with me next game, away from the forum and any attention.

[reddoc]

Yeah look at me, look at me.

The complete opposite but whatever.

I just don't think suicide or joking about is funny.

It's ok for people to make reference "joking" of course to suicide, but mention cancer or a wheelchair and booooooooom.

It's people like you who keep the stigma of mental health problems, sad.

To prove I'm not an attention seeker, why not come have a chat with me next game, away from the forum and any attention.

Fine by me Wolf, always happy to have a chat. Have to add that it's people like me and Robbored I believe, who spend a large part of their day trying to help people with mental health problems largely due to the inevitable underfunding of the Mental Health Service in this region, and having said that I'm entirely happy to stand by my comments.

[Kid in the Riot]

Fine by me Wolf, always happy to have a chat. Have to add that it's people like me and Robbored I believe, who spend a large part of their day trying to help people with mental health problems largely due to the inevitable underfunding of the Mental Health Service in this region, and having said that I'm entirely happy to stand by my comments.

Please tell me you're joking?

You work in mental health and you've just addressed someone who you know as having mental health problems as "quite the little attention seeker aren't you?"

No wonder mental healthcare treatment in this country is shit shocking.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Fine by me Wolf, always happy to have a chat. Have to add that it's people like me and Robbored I believe, who spend a large part of their day trying to help people with mental health problems largely due to the inevitable underfunding of the Mental Health Service in this region, and having said that I'm entirely happy to stand by my comments.

Cool, I like a man who stands by what he believes.

RR has retired I believe.

Calling someone an egomaniac without meeting them is ignorant, you are way off the mark. Don't get mixed up with taking things to seriously and ego's. This is cyberspace I could be a hedgehog for all you know.........the 2nd on this forum I believe.

Reality.......not here.....thank ****.

[reddoc]

Cool, I like a man who stands by what he believes.

RR has retired I believe.

Calling someone an egomaniac without meeting them is ignorant, you are way off the mark. Don't get mixed up with taking things to seriously and ego's. This is cyberspace I could be a hedgehog for all you know.........the 2nd on this forum I believe.

Reality.......not here.....thank ****.

Fair enough, some people might chose to point out the difference between an attention seeker and an egomaniac at this point, but I don't know it and would have to look it up, which would be tiresome. And I appreciate that things aren't easy etc , just feel that possibly the guy that made the suicidal comment probably didn't realize, and didn't deserve to be stamped on in that way.

Quits huh?

[reddoc]

Please tell me you're joking?

You work in mental health and you've just addressed someone who you know as having mental health problems as "quite the little attention seeker aren't you?"

No wonder mental healthcare treatment in this country is shit shocking.

No I'm not joking. And I can only comment for this region and you're right, locally it's pretty poor. And to clarify I don't work in MH but having said that you'd struggle to find many people who do currently because it's hideously understaffed. Having said that I do my best as do most of the docs I know and have to apologize if it's not good enough for you.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

No I'm not joking. And I can only comment for this region and you're right, locally it's pretty poor. And to clarify I don't work in MH but having said that you'd struggle to find many people who do currently because it's hideously understaffed. Having said that I do my best as do most of the docs I know and have to apologize if it's not good enough for you.

Putting words into my mouth, rather than forcing tablets down someone's throat and not thinking about the devastating consequences that can have on a patient and family's life.

That was sarcasm by the way, seems you're the one with the ego problem and what people supposedly think of doctors.

My doctor is brilliant, it's only 3 times that he's forgotten to write me the correct prescription.

I'm still grateful for the NHS and the job they do, It's only the persistence of my family that has seen me get proper treatment my original "general practitioner" advised me to get some vitamin d to cheer me up via a sun bed........when I challenged him about skin cancer he said I'm just a gp, you need to see a specialist. I had to tell him that it was his job to refer me.........I could go on.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Please tell me you're joking?

You work in mental health and you've just addressed someone who you know as having mental health problems as "quite the little attention seeker aren't you?"

No wonder mental healthcare treatment in this country is shit shocking.

Don't bother wasting your time GP's are DOCTORS, far more intelligent than anyone else.

I'm still laughing at the egomaniac jibe.

[Robin1988]

Misread post, ignore.

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

Fine by me Wolf, always happy to have a chat. Have to add that it's people like me and Robbored I believe, who spend a large part of their day trying to help people with mental health problems largely due to the inevitable underfunding of the Mental Health Service in this region, and having said that I'm entirely happy to stand by my comments.

I will meet you for a beer and a chat....... what game would you like too meet??