Unreserved Area - Singing Section - South Stand

[exAtyeoMax]

As far as I am aware from Dave Lloyd, is that east enders have first choice in the south stand, that is 1,200 odd people. It has been suggested by some fans that we should take up the back rows of the new south stand so we will be able to stand and not block anyone's views. But since that was suggested it has gone all quiet again. I hoping to hear at least something from people involved with the fans parliament and supporters trusts, but we have heard nothing at all since this idea was first suggested. This would be a good starting point if they could push this forward and give us feed back.

I'll be relocating to the South Stand, along with my usual crowd, and would be more than happy with the singing section being behind me, as I want to sit, but quite happy to join in singing etc. I think it would work well and the acoustics of the roof would amplify the sound well.

[T R]

@Kivsy: Yes it does fall into the remit of the Supporters Club (now Supporters Club & Trust) and the Fans' Parliament (now FAN) and the SC&T for one is very happy to represent fans' views in these discussions. However in order to do that to best effect, we do need fans to come forward to let us know what they would like us to ask for or to volunteer to participate directly in the proposed working group.

 

@Threshing Red: Yes, I put forward some ideas, which I offered as a starting point for further debate. Unfortunately, few - if any - other ideas were forthcoming. We are happy to put forward any ideas anyone would like to make and then feed back on those in due course. But we need concrete ideas first.

 

@Flaxbourton Red: Can't answer for the club on that, but as we are in the process of gathering ideas to put to them, how would you like the club to do that? Do you have any concrete ideas to put forward?

 

Thanks for your feedback. I think the lack of any ideas coming forward is because nothing seems to work as this would effect the fans who wish to sit. So the idea of having a singing section only at the back seems to be the only option that would work while the Williams is being rebuilt. Once that is completed hopefully those Williams fans will go back freeing up more space around the south stand for more singing supporters?

Are the club and trust and parliament members planning of having any meetings on the subject in the new year? Would be a good idea to put this forward to the club.

I need to know what the clubs plans are before I renew season ticket. There is no point going if there is no singing section, I wouldn't enjoy my match day experience.

 

P.s. As applied to flaxbourtons reds question, perhaps the club are going to install giant speakers.

 

Maybe this thread could be pinned so if anyone comes up with some more ideas they can see where to put them forward.

[bristolcity14]

Surely the club should read the forum and see what the fans want? Fans are one of the most important things in a football club so the suggestions should get seriously took into consideration

[Blagdon red]

Bristol Sport asked the SC&T to help coordinate a working group to discuss these issues and the OP refers to an invitation via WTMS for fans to get involved with that. The same goes for fans on here. I'm happy to be the point of contact. Just PM me if you'd like to be involved and when we have a decent group together I'll go back to BS and seek to arrange a time and date for a meeting.

 

If you don't want to get involved in any meetings, but have ideas you'd like to put forward, just fire away (either here or via PM) and I'll make sure that they are discussed as well.

[City Rocker]

Surely the club should read the forum and see what the fans want? Fans are one of the most important things in a football club so the suggestions should get seriously took into consideration

 

Well as this thread shows, the club clearly do want to know what the fans want, but I have to stop you there...they should definitely NOT read this forum for any sort of accurate barometer of fan opinion!

[screech]

So now they want fans engagement?

Are these the same fans they have ignored and plodded on and designed a stand for them, giving them no feedback for months and shown the design at the 11th hour and told them this is yours, you asked for it?

 

Looks like you get a chance to vote whether you wish to conform in a club led sit here if you like this or here if you don't. Far too late in the day to start offering options when they have already told people there are no options available.

[Monkeh]

Surely the club should read the forum and see what the fans want? Fans are one of the most important things in a football club so the suggestions should get seriously took into consideration

read through here and most fans want different things, its impossible for the club to cater for all,

also the forums prob make up about 10% of the fan base so the club just can't take all there info from them,

[CIDER NOT CIDRE]

I think it's likely that it won't happen in the new South Stand due to the high demand for tickets the Stand will be expecting. Everyone will want to go in their for it's inaugral season.Therefore I think they may struggle to give over a section reserved for the Eastenders considering every man and his dog (hopefully not his dog..) will be after those tickets. I may be completely wrong but it's just my gut feeling at the moment.

[Puckle_red]

read through here and most fans want different things, its impossible for the club to cater for all,

also the forums prob make up about 10% of the fan base so the club just can't take all there info from them,

That's right. Surely a questionnaire to the clubs database of supporters would of helped?

[Monkeh]

That's right. Surely a questionnaire to the clubs database of supporters would of helped?

we've had a few haven't we or were they about the state of football in general, I can't remember,

[WTMS]

read through here and most fans want different things, its impossible for the club to cater for all,

also the forums prob make up about 10% of the fan base so the club just can't take all there info from them,

It is possible to identify a consensus. There have been clear majority backed themes identified regarding design i.e Ashton Vale, reopening a stand i.e Eastend, or safe standing amongst others. This was done via several Supporters Trust surveys.

What BS are doing is none of the above e.g Screeches post. A survey related to design would be meaningless. A survey on unreserved seating could have already be done, some fans including the Supporters Trust looked upon this as being a certainty.

BS - BCFC did not include fans in the promised [Jon Lansdown] consultation regarding the design, and now have decided how they want the culture of fans to proceed. It is not surprising, but do not promise what you have no intention of delivering!

BS may have suggested forming another wishy washy working group after the last benign wishy washy group to look at how some fans will spend their day in seasons time. The Supporters Trust will need help from those who sincerely want to occupy the South stand, go beyond forums and will argue their case in front of BS to move that on.

[Blagdon red]

A survey's a good idea. Though probably best used to test the popularity of certain ideas once these have been put forward and chatted through by - horrible term, I know - the 'working group'.

 

The opportunity is there and, as I said last night, I'm happy to help to coordinate this. So if you'd like to get involved, please PM me and we can try to get a meeting specifically on singing section / unreserved seating set up early in the new year.

[richwwtk]

My answer would be no. Simple. However regarding that excuse (which you are correct about) we have less capacity this season than we will for the entire redevelopment and yet the E blocks are unreserved and therefore I fail to see why this would need to be changed.

I am happy to pay the same as the rest of the ground for similar areas but not extra. I'm sure that for some it'd be a struggle to pay for too. Who knows maybe some would pay the difference but the principle doesn't sit right with me.

 

I'm not suggesting the extra should be paid necessarily, I was just interested in opinions.

 

What I struggle to understand is why the people calling for unreserved seating, standing, singing area etc are so convinced the club is against them and use that as their starting point for everything they say. That means that one side at least are starting from an antagonistic viewpoint making it very difficult to be listened to seriously.

 

Whatever decision the club makes, they are the ones responsible for the safety of over 10,000 people every match, and it would only need one person to get hurt and decide to sue the club and that would mean they would get screwed over should they not have done everything they could to prevent it. Is it any wonder, given the way our society is moving towards an American litigious model, that the club are occasionally over-zealous in the way they act around behaviour in the ground?

 

On top of the reduced capacity, I would imagine it could be argued by a lawyer that allowing standing in an unreserved seating area is inherently more dangerous than having terracing or safe standing, therefore the club would seem to be within their rights to do their best to make sure everyone is seated.

 

The fact that the East End (and now the Williams section) has had such a relaxed attitude to it, accompanied by the cheaper prices, surely shows just how much the club does value the noisier fans? And yet, they are still accused at every turn of not wanting them, of not listening to them and of not accommodating them. I would suggest they are the one group that have had the most done for them. there may be other clubs that have done more, the same as some will have done less, but it comes down to the decision of a single person whose job relies on the decisions they make, along with the safety of the entire Ashton Gate crowd. Is it any surprise that they err on the side of caution from time to time?

 

What it needs, is for the people concerned to approach the club in a rational and measured manner to express their concerns and make suggestions, and they WILL be listened to.

 

The people suggesting that they weren't consulted over the stadium plans etc are just either ignoring everything that went on or have unrealistically high expectations as to the level of involvement they were expecting to have.

[WTMS]

I'm not suggesting the extra should be paid necessarily, I was just interested in opinions.

What I struggle to understand is why the people calling for unreserved seating, standing, singing area etc are so convinced the club is against them and use that as their starting point for everything they say. That means that one side at least are starting from an antagonistic viewpoint making it very difficult to be listened to seriously.

Whatever decision the club makes, they are the ones responsible for the safety of over 10,000 people every match, and it would only need one person to get hurt and decide to sue the club and that would mean they would get screwed over should they not have done everything they could to prevent it. Is it any wonder, given the way our society is moving towards an American litigious model, that the club are occasionally over-zealous in the way they act around behaviour in the ground?

On top of the reduced capacity, I would imagine it could be argued by a lawyer that allowing standing in an unreserved seating area is inherently more dangerous than having terracing or safe standing, therefore the club would seem to be within their rights to do their best to make sure everyone is seated.

The fact that the East End (and now the Williams section) has had such a relaxed attitude to it, accompanied by the cheaper prices, surely shows just how much the club does value the noisier fans? And yet, they are still accused at every turn of not wanting them, of not listening to them and of not accommodating them. I would suggest they are the one group that have had the most done for them. there may be other clubs that have done more, the same as some will have done less, but it comes down to the decision of a single person whose job relies on the decisions they make, along with the safety of the entire Ashton Gate crowd. Is it any surprise that they err on the side of caution from time to time?

What it needs, is for the people concerned to approach the club in a rational and measured manner to express their concerns and make suggestions, and they WILL be listened to.

The people suggesting that they weren't consulted over the stadium plans etc are just either ignoring everything that went on or have unrealistically high expectations as to the level of involvement they were expecting to have.

People who attended the consultations, and took part in working groups KNOW fans would not be thoroughly consulted. There was no antagonism at these meetings. Jon Lansdown clearly stated fans would be fully consulted at every step.

NO unreserved seating was not mentioned to fans at these "consultations" starting back in early 2013.

People recently attended another consultation within the DEH. Questions were posed in a polite manner. BS were not listening [again] e.g the future of vocal support at Ashton Gate is somehow linked to the center circle - acoustics, was not an answer to the specific measured question posed from a fan.

Your point regarding standing - refer to the Trafford report.

"The fact that the East End (and now the Williams section) has had such a relaxed attitude to it, accompanied by the cheaper prices, surely shows just how much the club does value the noisier fans?"

Surely shows is is an opinion.

Yes there are other clubs who have done more, similar, and less.

Fans had to petition and work for years to get the Eastend open, and combat what the Supporters Trust more or less referred to as prejudice. At the Williams relocation meeting the police [!!?] were present. A perception held is the club view a section of support as a problem to be housed, an inconvenience and they have learnt next to nothing from the success [steve Lansdowns description] of reopening the clubs end.

BCFC and now BS make it easy to hold that perception. What has occurred, and is occurring was predicted. The emphasis should not be on fans but on BS - BCFC to action their own statements.

[Monkeh]

just to put my cards on the table,

I don't give a **** about design

I don't care if I'm seated of standing (rather stand)

I do care about atmosphere as I love a sing but I think its up to fans to generate that not the design of the ground,

of and I want the surfer flag back

[Phileas Fogg]

just to put my cards on the table,

I don't give a **** about design

I don't care if I'm seated of standing (rather stand)

I do care about atmosphere as I love a sing but I think its up to fans to generate that not the design of the ground,

of and I want the surfer flag back

I'm not a huge fan of a bowl design even though ours isn't a Leicester/ Cardiff / swans / hull bowl but it would look good if we were able to surf a flag around the entire of AG because of our design!

[Monkeh]

I'm not a huge fan of a bowl design even though ours isn't a Leicester/ Cardiff / swans / hull bowl but it would look good if we were able to surf a flag around the entire of AG because of our design!

if its full you won't notice, because it will be half empty until we have sustained sucess then we will notice it,

 

I'm going to predict that our crowds will avg about 16k once the ground is complete,

We have to accept the design because of the massive limitations on the exisiting site,

the only way around this would of been to move out for a season while it was completely rebuilt,

realistically the only ground big enough close by for us would be cardiff or the mem, both wouldn't happen,

 

Sometimes we just have to be realistic about things

[WTMS]

just to put my cards on the table,

I don't give a **** about design

I don't care if I'm seated of standing (rather stand)

I do care about atmosphere as I love a sing but I think its up to fans to generate that not the design of the ground,

of and I want the surfer flag back

Then instead of using the cloak of anonymity the internet affords you get out there and do. Sit down with the Supporters Trust and put some of the time you have used to post 13000+ times to use. If your I don't care / I do care ideas are strong enough others will follow you ...

[Monkeh]

Then instead of using the cloak of anonymity the internet affords you get out there and do. Sit down with the Supporters Trust and put some of the time you have used to post 13000+ times to use. If your I don't care / I do care ideas are strong enough others will follow you ...

I'm not the one kicking up a fuss about it,

 

Anyway there is no chance of any unreserve in the new south stand due to the williams disapearing, the season after however is a realistic aim for it and imo should be the date people are aiming for to get things implemented,

 

Who knows by then we may even have safe standing

[richwwtk]

Monkeh is far too optimistic about things to be a vocal member of the unreserved seating campaign. It's supposed to be all doom and gloom because the world (and BCFC in particular) are against you.

[Cider red]

Just a suggestion for the club, It's understandable they don't want to lose the 10%, so we could have a RESERVED singing section, at the back of the stand, for about 1500 people. Problem solved?!

[WTMS]

I'm not the one kicking up a fuss about it,

13000+ posts but unprepared to rise to proactively do anything but critisise others smacks of apathy and faintheartedness.

You did state mouth and trousers ... Touche.

[Sixtyseconds]

Monkeh is far too

Busy?

Popular?

Maybe his posts are the boastful school kid who can do a thousand school lengths, gets called out and turns up at the swimmin gala with inflatable pink arm bands and a sick note.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

In other countries, 'singing sections' are often run by a fans group who decide who sits/stands there so only the best singers get in. People in these areas also sometimes have to pay the fan organisation to be in the special area and that money goes towards displays etc.

[Cowshed]

I have already stated that the club have handled the situation badly. What I took umbrage with, was somebody claiming that the club had made it clear that the people requesting unreserved seating aren't wanted at Ashton Gate. It's made up and verging on paranoia.

The unreserved seating issue will never be resolved to anybody's satisfaction if the people campaigning for it take a confrontational attitude with the club from the outset.

Yes the club have handled the situation very badly.

There was no confrontational attitude displayed by fans to BS chairman Martin Griffiths at the last stadium update.

Monkeh is far too optimistic about things to be a vocal member of the unreserved seating campaign. It's supposed to be all doom and gloom because the world (and BCFC in particular) are against you.

Looking at the "confrontational" tone of his posts I doubt the SC&T would want him heading any potential campaign.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Just out of interest, does anybody know exactly what the club would like to consult supporters about?

There seems to be three questions, to my mind:

1) How large should such an area (unreserved seating) be?

My answer: About the same size as the number of people who were frequenting the East East, if not a little bigger. Call it 2000 for good measure (season tickets and potd).

2) Should the area be a different price to the rest of the stand as a whole?

My answer: No

This is all basic stuff so far, no need for long meetings.

3) Where should the area be?

My answer: I don't particularly care, if you asked ten different people you'd likely get ten different answers.

A Barry bonus question:

4)Should the club take a more lenient attitude towards the area re standing etc

My answer: Yes

May I just ask 2 questions (plus this one), myself?

1) What is so unclear about these answers, that requires further consultation?

2) Is it possible for any managerial group, who wear suits, to make basic decisions, without relying on a long, tedious and pointless process that usually require many long, tedious and pointless meetings?

I shall put it in capitals, so that it stands out nice and clear: THERE IS CLEARLY A DEMAND FOR UNRESERVED SEATING, YOU ARE A BUSINESS BCFC, I HATE TO THINK WHAT LORD ALAN SUGAR WOULD MAKE OF ALL THIS.

I will volunteer to step forward and tell the club this in person, in the new year, if the use of the Internet remains beyond them by that point.

[City fan 1982]

this club does like their meetings !!!

[Ohbasso]

Just to go back to the part about losing 10% capacity in an unreserved area, when did this rule come in? Is it from the club or some governing body?

It must be a new thing as it wasn't the case in the eastend and isn't the case in the Williams this year.

[richwwtk]

As far as I am aware, it's always been the rule that you can only sell 90% of capacity in an unreserved area. Both the EE and the Williams area would have been affected by this.

[Ohbasso]

I wonder if the club have just turned a blind eye to it in the past as there is no space in the Williams unreserved area and when there was a large away following there was never any space in the eastend (unless they counted the netting as the 10%?).