richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 But the point I'm making is people have gone to matches and come home with banning orders through no fault of their own. You only have to look back on old threads on here to see how many fans have been mistreated despite no wrong doing. I can only think of one direct example of somebody on this forum claiming to have been mistreated. He was arrested for being drunk going into an away match if I remember correctly, claimed there was no way he was drunk at all and very publicly lambasted the club for not supporting him. At the time most people took his side. He has since come out in threads abut behaviour at football matches telling all and sundry that he goes to football in order to drink and have a laugh with his mates. Apparently fighting with rival fans is a perfectly legitimate way of having a laugh and supporting your club. Any sympathy I may ever have felt for him has long since gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Rizzle Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Don't get me wrong some people 100% deserve banning orders and in no way do I condone their actions which has no place in football. However over the years I have seen so many instances of police being heavy handed and arresting people for nothing. I get what you're saying Just Red. I recall the incidents at Walsall a few years ago where lots of fans were upset at their treatment from the police. I realise there is a possibility for people to be banned unfairly but there is also a difference between being arrested and getting a ban. Not everyone arrested at a football match gets a banning order, you kind of have to go above and beyond, don't you? As for the kids with the flares, perhaps they aren't dangerous but unless they are completely stupid they would have known that it is illegal but still chose to set them off. No sympathy from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Out of interest, just why should city have backed them up? If someone got a banning order for letting off smoke bombs, which is illegal to do in this country, and something that city were very publicly discouraging last season, then surely they deserve no backing from the club whatsoever. In fact I'd say I'm very disappointed in the club if they gave them ANY support a it gives out mixed messages. It's not as if people letting off smoke bombs weren't warned a million and one times that they are illegal. Whether or not you agree with the law is another thing completely, but your disagreement should not be a reason to ignore it and bitch about it when caught and punished with something everyone was threatened with. (I realise you're not the person who was banned, but I do think your point us very very flawed.) I take that, I know of one of the lads involved and the way it was handled wasn't great without going in the ins and outs of it - I shouldn't really discuss all that on here. I'm biased about it so probably not the best example for me to use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I take that, I know of one of the lads involved and the way it was handled wasn't great without going in the ins and outs of it - I shouldn't really discuss all that on here. I'm biased about it so probably not the best example for me to use! A better example would be the Cardiff game and those who got a banning order for being in the area thanks to the Welsh police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I get what you're saying Just Red. I recall the incidents at Walsall a few years ago where lots of fans were upset at their treatment from the police. I realise there is a possibility for people to be banned unfairly but there is also a difference between being arrested and getting a ban. Not everyone arrested at a football match gets a banning order, you kind of have to go above and beyond, don't you? As for the kids with the flares, perhaps they aren't dangerous but unless they are completely stupid they would have known that it is illegal but still chose to set them off. No sympathy from me.I think if your arrested at any football stadium even if your eventually found innocent you are immediately given a ban from AGuntil matters have cleared up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 A better example would be the Cardiff game and those who got a banning order for being in the area thanks to the Welsh police I'd be amazed to hear about anybody who got a banning order just for 'being in the area' whilst being otherwise completely innocent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I think if your arrested at any football stadium even if your eventually found innocent you are immediately given a ban from AGuntil matters have cleared up? That is just a suspension until investigations are complete. Nothing at all to do with being presumed guilty and certainly nothing like having a banning order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I'd be amazed to hear about anybody who got a banning order just for 'being in the area' whilst being otherwise completely innocentI know one who said he was harsly treated, he has appealed and took it up with the fsf but it's been dragging on for over a year, There will be some miscarriages of justice I'm certain of that rich, but the vast majority do deserve them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I get what you're saying Just Red. I recall the incidents at Walsall a few years ago where lots of fans were upset at their treatment from the police. I realise there is a possibility for people to be banned unfairly but there is also a difference between being arrested and getting a ban. Not everyone arrested at a football match gets a banning order, you kind of have to go above and beyond, don't you? As for the kids with the flares, perhaps they aren't dangerous but unless they are completely stupid they would have known that it is illegal but still chose to set them off. No sympathy from me. And the club, in the shape of Colin Sexstone, contested the charges and got the fans acquitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 If you've got a banning order, why shouldn't you be banned from seeing a friendly? Not disputing the reason behind the order, but that it should be enforced for every match, just to be clear. Can anyone answer this? I would have assumed a banning order meant you're banned from watching football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Can anyone answer this? I would have assumed a banning order meant you're banned from watching football? Indeed you can't watch any football live or go with in a radius of the ground (3 mile I think) on match days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Indeed you can't watch any football live or go with in a radius of the ground (3 mile I think) on match days Thanks, So what's this about needing to hand in passports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 And the club, in the shape of Colin Sexstone, contested the charges and got the fans acquitted. Are you trying to say that Bristol City care about their fans? I'm not having that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks, So what's this about needing to hand in passports? because city are abroad so city fans with banning orders need to hand in their passport unless the have a pre-booked holiday, Has to been done every international fixture, and I think they need to report to their local police station every home fixture as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I'd be amazed to hear about anybody who got a banning order just for 'being in the area' whilst being otherwise completely innocent Contact the Football Supporters Federation and asks if this occurs. Similar has happened to Bristol City Supporters, including one who with the backing of fellow fans in the local community raising money for a expensive legal team eventually got a ban overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 because city are abroad so city fans with banning orders need to hand in their passport unless the have a pre-booked holiday, Has to been done every international fixture, and I think they need to report to their local police station every home fixture as well Yet someone can happily walk through central London draped in an ISIS flag. Funny world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yet someone can happily walk through central London draped in an ISIS flag. Funny world we live in.Yet someone can happily walk through central London draped in an ISIS flag. Funny world we live in. Indeed but I don't want to discuss that because it will come across extremely racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 because city are abroad so city fans with banning orders need to hand in their passport unless the have a pre-booked holiday, Has to been done every international fixture, and I think they need to report to their local police station every home fixture as well Ohh, OK. I was getting confused thinking they were wanting to go to the match. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 because city are abroad so city fans with banning orders need to hand in their passport unless the have a pre-booked holiday, Has to been done every international fixture, and I think they need to report to their local police station every home fixture as well Wow didn't realise that. Seems a bit draconian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thats all lies, Richwwtks told me! He knows the world better than anyone Any chance of not resorting to personal abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Completely fair then! Maybe not completely fair, but no different in concept to being accused of misconduct at work and being suspended until it's sorted out, or being on remand whilst awaiting trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Maybe not completely fair, but no different in concept to being accused of misconduct at work and being suspended until it's sorted out, or being on remand whilst awaiting trial The concepts are incomparable. Fans are being banned for up to three years without committing a crime or being charged. Bans via civil courts can be applied without an offence. This has occurred to fans of Bristol City, and in the case of one fellow supporters raised money not for a defence, but to overturn a ban of several years was imposed where no charge against the individual had been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 The concepts are incomparable. Fans are being banned for up to three years without committing a crime or being charged. Bans via civil courts can be applied without an offence. This has occurred to fans of Bristol City, and in the case of one fellow supporters raised money not for a defence, but to overturn a ban of several years was imposed where no charge against the individual had been made. Are you talking about Football Banning Orders or the Club banning an individual from the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Are you talking about Football Banning Orders or the Club banning an individual from the ground? City can ban anybody they want prior to conviction. If an individual is banned by a court the Police inform BCFC and the club obvioulsy follow suit regardless of circumstances. City have wanted to extend bans beyond those imposed by courts and ban fans for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 City can ban anybody they want prior to conviction. If an individual is banned by a court the Police inform BCFC and the club obvioulsy follow suit regardless of circumstances. City have wanted to extend bans beyond those imposed by courts and ban fans for life. So are you saying that courts are imposing 3-year Banning Orders on fans with no conviction or even a charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thats all lies, Richwwtks told me! He knows the world better than anyone Wheres the personal abuse?! Would you prefer personal attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 So are you saying that courts are imposing 3-year Banning Orders on fans with no conviction or even a charge? I think he's saying that some innocents do get banned with little evidence which is true and not just at this club, The vast majority are deserved however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 I think he's saying that some innocents do get banned with little evidence which is true and not just at this club, The vast majority are deserved however I fully accept that some people are banned by the club with little evidence. Rightly or wrongly, they are allowed to do this. What I'd be interested in is someone getting a Football Banning Order without even being charged with any offence to back it up, let alone convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamon Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 So are you saying that courts are imposing 3-year Banning Orders on fans with no conviction or even a charge? Yes that's correct. The police can pretty much do as they please and do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yes that's correct. The police can pretty much do as they please and do just that. A Football Banning Order is not handed out by the police, it has to come from the courts. Contrary to popular belief, they do not just do things because the police ask them to, it would need some kind of evidence. Unless you can prove otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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