BS15_RED Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Freedom of speech, unless you disagree with me...then get out! berkWhere did I say he wasn't entitled to his opinion? What I said was that if he's offended by our flag and anthem, then he'd be better off living elsewhere. At no point did I say he wasn't entitled to his opinion, or his freedom to express it. Freedom of speach is a right of democracy, it gives morons like you the right to an opinion. Next time read what people write before insulting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Not quite, freedom of speech unless acting disrespectfully and in a manner likely to cause offence. I can accept wishing to not wear the poppy. But turning your back on an anthem is not acceptable nor justifiable as exercising freedom of speech. Specifically on the first point I believe this is a common misconception about freedom of speech. I reserve the right to disrespect or offend whoever I want, and for you to do likewise. Moreover it is impossible to know what will cause offence a priori, and someone out there will be offended by almost anything possible to say. Unless you are inciting violence or saying something likely to cause physical danger, you can say whatever you like! More generally I suggest anyone criticising McClean should at least have read his letter to Whelan. Doesn't mean you should agree with him of course, but with my little knowledge of the troubles I can at least understand his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ok he is entitled to his opinion but if he is that concerned by it why is he over here playing for an English team in front of English fans and taking English money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am the mole Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ok he is entitled to his opinion but if he is that concerned by it why is he over here playing for an English team in front of English fans and taking English money?becsuse he's not anti English from where he's from the poppy and God save the queen is ascoiated with the deaths of family and friends and suck like!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well, that's not true and you know it It is my opinion and so to that extent it can only be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 His letter to Whelan; http://www.wiganlatics.co.uk/news/article/14-11-07-statement-regarding-james-mcclean-2070059.aspx At face value, that would explain his stance re the poppy. Not sure where it leaves him with regard to disrespecting our national anthem - a lot of his team mates are not British and they had no problem in respecting a British clubs national anthem. Perhaps he'll write another letter. True. But they're not from countries whose citizens have had to live under the yoke of British imperialism, are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Specifically on the first point I believe this is a common misconception about freedom of speech. I reserve the right to disrespect or offend whoever I want, and for you to do likewise. Moreover it is impossible to know what will cause offence a priori, and someone out there will be offended by almost anything possible to say. Unless you are inciting violence or saying something likely to cause physical danger, you can say whatever you like! More generally I suggest anyone criticising McClean should at least have read his letter to Whelan. Doesn't mean you should agree with him of course, but with my little knowledge of the troubles I can at least understand his position. You certainly do not have the right to cause offence - in the circumstances it could amount to a criminal offence. There was a case about this some time ago. Harry Hammond, a preacher who had a sign saying homosexuality is a sin. High Court said freedom of expression was of no avail to him. Freedom of speech is not a shield to justify acting without class and decency. I'd defend strongly his right to not wear a poppy, to quietly bystand to an anthem, but not to show flagrant disrespect. I like his letter on the poppy, I commend him for standing for his views, I support him having them, but not the reaction to the anthem. Oh and I'm not particularly patriotic. I just believe in manners, decency and professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Thread creep! As soon as we were linked with this kid I knew this debate would result. Nothing to do with Patrick, it's James who has taken this action. How about we leave this thread for the title, 'Patrick McClean' and not start some political ranting. If you wanna do that, go to the non footy section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 becsuse he's not anti English from where he's from the poppy and God save the queen is ascoiated with the deaths of family and friends and suck like!! Didn't see the Argentines do it when we played them but agreed that this is not a political thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaner89 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 If he is disrespectful like his brother he can stay away. Willing to give him a chance though as each person is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaner89 Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 You can choose your friends.... Exactly why everybody deserves a chance. Hope he doesn't follow in his brothers footsteps though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Heard about this 3 weeks ago. Nice to know ya still ITK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Heard about this 3 weeks ago. Nice to know ya still ITK... Oh yeh? Well I heard about our next signing 4 weeks ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Oh yeh? Well I heard about our next signing 4 weeks ago! Ooooh ooooh.............?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Exactly why everybody deserves a chance. Hope he doesn't follow in his brothers footsteps though. Why? Surely it's his choice. I'd prefer it if he didn't, but he's within his rights to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Oh yeh? Well I heard about our next signing 4 weeks ago! I've never heard of our next signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Lewis Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 He speaks well of you though Marina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaner89 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why? Surely it's his choice. I'd prefer it if he didn't, but he's within his rights to do so. Within his rights. If he choses to play for an English club he should respect what that involves... And if he thinks it will be disrespecting his ancestors but turning to the flag etc... Surely moving here and paying us taxes is doing exactly the same in disrespecting his ancestors. If I moved (for example) to Australia... If part of my job was to turn to the Australian flag I would. If I didn't respect the Australian flag for any reason, wtf would I move there in the first place. That's like a criminal saying I have pigs, they're all the same and only look after themselves. Then when they're released they become a cop. Makes no sense if you don't respect cops. Does it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaner89 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Within his rights. If he choses to play for an English club he should respect what that involves... And if he thinks it will be disrespecting his ancestors but turning to the flag etc... Surely moving here and paying us taxes is doing exactly the same in disrespecting his ancestors. If I moved (for example) to Australia... If part of my job was to turn to the Australian flag I would. If I didn't respect the Australian flag for any reason, wtf would I move there in the first place. That's like a criminal saying I have pigs, they're all the same and only look after themselves. Then when they're released they become a cop. Makes no sense if you don't respect cops. Does it?? Hate pigs not have pigs :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Not having the poppy on the shirt I've no problem with there was a bad on both sides of the Northern Ireland conflict But you have to report the national anthem of any country no matter what he personal feelings on it Anyway we have signed Patrick not James...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Within his rights. If he choses to play for an English club he should respect what that involves... And if he thinks it will be disrespecting his ancestors but turning to the flag etc... Surely moving here and paying us taxes is doing exactly the same in disrespecting his ancestors. If I moved (for example) to Australia... If part of my job was to turn to the Australian flag I would. If I didn't respect the Australian flag for any reason, wtf would I move there in the first place. That's like a criminal saying I have pigs, they're all the same and only look after themselves. Then when they're released they become a cop. Makes no sense if you don't respect cops. Does it?? The point is he's within his rights to do it - which is what I was saying. You may not like it, but whilst we have strong principles of free speech he can express himself how he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaner89 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The point is he's within his rights to do it - which is what I was saying. You may not like it, but whilst we have strong principles of free speech he can express himself how he wants. Obviously he can do what he wants. Its just my opinion that he is wrong, and if he or his brother for that matter do that wearing a city shirt I would want him out. It is disrespectful and in the most direct way possible he should respect his employer, who happen to be English/British whichever is more relevant. Anyway... I'll give the young McClean a chance as he seems a decent footballer from reviews etc.. Hope he doesn't **** it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Correct. The guy is an imbecile, plain and simple. Move on get over it and, most of all, grow up. If you turn your back on any national anthem representing the club or country you are playing for then you should NOT be playing for them. Deserves to be roundly booed and castigated and fined by his club.. hope he is but i doubt he will be. How do you turn your back on a national anthem? What he appears to have done is to turn sideways to the person singing it, and to bow his head. Its not as if he bared his backside is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why are they playing the national anthem before a friendly game involving a multi national team? Just seems bizarre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why are they playing the national anthem before a friendly game involving a multi national team? Just seems bizarre Welcome to the U S of A. James Mclean gets not a shred of sympathy from me, Every club he has played for in England has deep working class roots and probably none more so than WBA, before the season has started he has already alienated himself from the baggies fans and I suspect that before he signed for them his overt political stance must have been discussed. Perhaps he should go home to Ireland to earn his living or perhaps Celtic where he would fit in well, because I believe he is only leaving himself wide open to personal and possibly physical attacks from people and sadly that is probably exactly what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 3 pages in and I still have no idea if we've signed this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 3 pages in and I still have no idea if we've signed this guy. Indeed. Noticed 3 pages and no confirmation by the club. Not going to bother reading back. Bet it's mainly comprised of arguments and nonsense. Much like the transfer thread! Worth a mutter - it's pre-season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Why are they playing the national anthem before a friendly game involving a multi national team? Just seems bizarre English team, it is out of respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 English team, it is out of respect Respect of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 English team, it is out of respect I get that, but how many English players were involved? If it was us I'd rather they placed OFTBC rather than GSTQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.