English Teams in Europe

[And Its Smith]

Am I in the minority for taking delight in watching English teams fail in Europe?  The Premier League is pretty boring now and if the co-efficient can be affected so that English teams only get 3 Champions League places it will make it a bit more exciting.  

 

[Numero Uno]

Am I in the minority for taking delight in watching English teams fail in Europe?  The Premier League is pretty boring now and if the co-efficient can be affected so that English teams only get 3 Champions League places it will make it a bit more exciting.  

 

I would imagine you are in the minority that actually care whether a collection of average foreign mercenaries, only here for the cash, win or lose in the Champions League.

[Kid in the Riot]

I'm delighted. Can anyone honestly see an English team making the semis? Quarters even?

This is 100% good for English football as it will hit the Premier League in the pocket and hopefully make them realise that more investment is needed in coaching / grass roots in English football in order to produce better home grown players like they do in Spain, Germany and Italy.

Due to the lack of quality home grown players the big English clubs end up piss ing away huge sums of money on average foreign and home grown players.

Not sustainable and needs to change. The Premier League losing a Champs League spot can't come quick enough.

[And Its Smith]

I would imagine you are in the minority that actually care whether a collection of average foreign mercenaries, only here for the cash, win or lose in the Champions League.

you've partly summed up why I'm delighted! 

[Lrrr]

I'm delighted. Can anyone honestly see an English team making the semis? Quarters even?

This is 100% good for English football as it will hit the Premier League in the pocket and hopefully make them realise that more investment is needed in coaching / grass roots in English football in order to produce better home grown players like they do in Spain, Germany and Italy.

Due to the lack of quality home grown players the big English clubs end up piss ing away huge sums of money on average foreign and home grown players.

Not sustainable and needs to change. The Premier League losing a Champs League spot can't come quick enough.

Nah it will mean there is more pumped in so the 3 teams who qualify next year can spend even more in an attempt to improve how well the teams do in Europe.

[Lew-T]

I'm delighted. Can anyone honestly see an English team making the semis? Quarters even?

This is 100% good for English football as it will hit the Premier League in the pocket and hopefully make them realise that more investment is needed in coaching / grass roots in English football in order to produce better home grown players like they do in Spain, Germany and Italy.

Due to the lack of quality home grown players the big English clubs end up piss ing away huge sums of money on average foreign and home grown players.

Not sustainable and needs to change. The Premier League losing a Champs League spot can't come quick enough.

I agree with you!

 

****

[Welcome To The Jungle]

I really do think that in the next 10-15 years English football will collapse.

With our teams failing in the champions league it lowers the appeal of the league itself.

With lower interest the TV money goes down

Many clubs will be unable to function without the TV money and/or a oil rich sugar daddy propping them up (they'e gone elsewhere to find better teams)

Clubs go bust, re emerge as fan owned clubs and the Football League re-envelops the Premier League.

 

Here's hoping anyway. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Once again no one gives credit to the opposition. No one has a devine right to beat teams like Porto, olypiakos, juventus etc. these teams are a match for anyone in the world, especially at home where their home support is fanatical.

stmospheres at arsenal, Chelsea, Man yoo, man city are terrible its no wonder English teams have been struggling. English/tourist supporters are conference standard. 

Id argue supporters of these clubs need to up their game off the field to help those on it.

[And Its Smith]

Once again no one gives credit to the opposition. No one has a devine right to beat teams like Porto, olypiakos, juventus etc. these teams are a match for anyone in the world, especially at home where their home support is fanatical.

stmospheres at arsenal, Chelsea, Man yoo, man city are terrible its no wonder English teams have been struggling. English/tourist supporters are conference standard. 

Id argue supporters of these clubs need to up their game off the field to help those on it.

nobody said the opposition didn't deserve it either.  Just expressing delight at English teams losing. 

 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

nobody said the opposition didn't deserve it either.  Just expressing delight at English teams losing. 

 

fair enough but this is the champions league, a lot of these teams are champions of thier leagues, rich in heritage and history.

overall English teams have a pretty good recent record in the competition     We've had a number of finalists in the last 15+ years and three different winners. 

Its shame/disgrace more money doesn't get pumped down the leagues but if you look at Spain for example that's more of a travesty how thier money gets divided.

its nice to see teams like Chelsea lose to spite annoyances like Jose moriniho but I'd rather see an English team win the cup than a German or French team for example. National pride comes before petty club rivalries to premier league teams none of us support anyway (you'd hope!)

[Barrs Court Red]

Last season 49 out of 50 top viewing audiences on Sky Sports were not champions league matches.

 

As much as the prem is overhyped, I do wonder if the Champions League is as popular amongst viewing audiences as previously thought.

[joe jordans teeth]

Last season 49 out of 50 top viewing audiences on Sky Sports were not champions league matches.

 

As much as the prem is overhyped, I do wonder if the Champions League is as popular amongst viewing audiences as previously thought.

think you're right mate,don't think many fans outside the top 4 give a damn about the champs league,the prem probably hasn't got a top 10 world player playing in it but continue s to thrive world wide

[Super]

I still enjoy watching the top players in the world, not a fan of the group stages though.

[joeyb]

 

I really do think that in the next 10-15 years English football will collapse.

With our teams failing in the champions league it lowers the appeal of the league itself.

With lower interest the TV money goes down

Many clubs will be unable to function without the TV money and/or a oil rich sugar daddy propping them up (they'e gone elsewhere to find better teams)

Clubs go bust, re emerge as fan owned clubs and the Football League re-envelops the Premier League.

 

Here's hoping anyway. 

I think what a lot of people forget now is that German Bundesliga and the Premier League are now the only top leagues where teams are making profit and that is in spite of £800m+ spending in the transfer window. Couple that with the fact that the Premier League is the fastest and most unpredictable league in the world.

From an investment point of view - lots of spending on exotic players and making a profit - not many countries' football teams can compete with that.

Also, I really don't understand this "hate" for the premier league on here. Don't get me wrong, I love Bristol City and they will come before any other team in the world for me, however, anyone who says they can't stand the premier league is kidding themselves. As a neutral, it is by far the most exciting football to watch. The pace and unpredictability is unmatched - hence the global audiences.

You could argue that it is hurting our national game. There are elements to that and i do completely disagree with the rules that allow Chelsea to send 30+ players out on loan. However, my opinion is that it is a reluctance of English players to move abroad to play 1st team football when they only play on the bench or for development teams. I point to Danny Ings - had offers from Real Sociedad where he would have been a starter when in form. But he chose to sit on the bench at Liverpool - when both Benteke and Sturridge are fit, there is no chance of him getting any game time other than cameos. If he went to Sociedad and played a full season again, he could have been pushing for the England squad - no chance now.

For those of you who dislike the premier league so much, can you honestly say that you don't want to get promoted this season? Again, you cannot deny that when that day comes it will be by far the most significant day in the club's recent history

 

 

 

[CotswoldRed]

Am I in the minority for taking delight in watching English teams fail in Europe?  The Premier League is pretty boring now and if the co-efficient can be affected so that English teams only get 3 Champions League places it will make it a bit more exciting.  

 

You might be, but I'm with you.

[Fordy62]

On a different note, how good is Robert Lewandowski? 10 goals in a week. Remarkable. 

 

 

[Barrs Court Red]

I love watching Premier League football, but Football in this country MUST change, and a collapse of the prem would see it reformed out of necessity rather than through self interest.

Seeing that Chanpionship clubs racked up an accumulated debt of over £1 billion last season, in what is a mediocre league played in front of plenty of empty seats, just highlights the madness. If the prem were to collapse:

1) Player wage would drop to a more realistic level

2) proper and considered wage capping could be introduced, encouraging teams to invest in youth and also infrastructure.

3) Transfer windows could be axed

4) the unjust academy system could be revamped, to better protect the investment smaller clubs have made

FFP has done nothing other than cement the status quo.  

 

 

[marshy]

I love watching Premier League football, but Football in this country MUST change, and a collapse of the prem would see it reformed out of necessity rather than through self interest.

Seeing that Chanpionship clubs racked up an accumulated debt of over £1 billion last season, in what is a mediocre league played in front of plenty of empty seats, just highlights the madness. If the prem were to collapse:

1) Player wage would drop to a more realistic level

2) proper and considered wage capping could be introduced, encouraging teams to invest in youth and also infrastructure.

3) Transfer windows could be axed

4) the unjust academy system could be revamped, to better protect the investment smaller clubs have made

FFP has done nothing other than cement the status quo.  

 

 

Or 'drawing up the drawbridge' as someone once put it. One of the reasons I've been against it from the outset. A gift for the accountants, number crunchers and legal boys. 

Another point of interest is that in the Arsenal game last night Olympiakos started the game with just two Greeks in the line-up, Siovas and Fortounis. Arsenal had three, Gibbs, Ox-C, and Walcott. Reinforces my long held opinion that neither Gibbs nor Oxlade-Chamberlaine should be anywhere near the England team. I rate Walcott if played up front.

[TV Tom]

 

I think what a lot of people forget now is that German Bundesliga and the Premier League are now the only top leagues where teams are making profit and that is in spite of £800m+ spending in the transfer window. Couple that with the fact that the Premier League is the fastest and most unpredictable league in the world.

From an investment point of view - lots of spending on exotic players and making a profit - not many countries' football teams can compete with that.

Also, I really don't understand this "hate" for the premier league on here. Don't get me wrong, I love Bristol City and they will come before any other team in the world for me, however, anyone who says they can't stand the premier league is kidding themselves. As a neutral, it is by far the most exciting football to watch. The pace and unpredictability is unmatched - hence the global audiences.

You could argue that it is hurting our national game. There are elements to that and i do completely disagree with the rules that allow Chelsea to send 30+ players out on loan. However, my opinion is that it is a reluctance of English players to move abroad to play 1st team football when they only play on the bench or for development teams. I point to Danny Ings - had offers from Real Sociedad where he would have been a starter when in form. But he chose to sit on the bench at Liverpool - when both Benteke and Sturridge are fit, there is no chance of him getting any game time other than cameos. If he went to Sociedad and played a full season again, he could have been pushing for the England squad - no chance now.

For those of you who dislike the premier league so much, can you honestly say that you don't want to get promoted this season? Again, you cannot deny that when that day comes it will be by far the most significant day in the club's recent history

 

 

 

I'm not kidding myself, I hate the premier league, can't remember the last time I watched a game, much more likely to watch a lower league game on the box. Of course if City got to the prem I'd be delighted but would still have zero interest in the other teams or matches unless it actively affected us

[handsofclay]

I have been watching Serie A for the last couple of seasons and find it more exciting than the EPL. More goals were scored in Serie A last season than in any other top division in Europe. Plus, there are a good eight or even more sides that stand a good chance of winning the thing. Look at this season so far. Inter were the early pacesetters but got tonked at home by Fiorentina who were in third at the weekend prior to their meeting. There's a good chance that neither of those two will be champs come the end of the season . 

I hit me that I am probably watching as many foreign players in Serie A as I am in the EPL but to watch all those foreign players in the EPL costs a bundle, so go for the cheaper, more entertaining and better quality option and watch Serie A.

[downendcity]

My feeling towards the prem is that when it was being formed the chairman/owners of all the top teams advocated it's formation on the grounds that it would benefit the England national team. The truth was that concern for the national team was nothing to do with it - it was greed , pure and simple.

The top teams did not want to share the tv spoils with the 92 clubs in the football league, as had previously been the case. They wanted a bigger cake ( SKY money) and they wanted a bigger slice of a bigger cake and stuff the rest.

Far from benefitting the English national team, the premier league has hindered it, as opportunities for young English players are stifled because teams are more likely to spend big on foreign talent than giving young English players a chance.

Of course money has always talked at the top end of football, so Liverpool were a wealthier club than most during the 70s and 80s, when they reigned supreme. However, back then the financial divide between the top and the rest was not anywhere near as great as it is now, so clubs like us could get into the top flight and had a chance of competing. Now we are finding it hard to compete financially  in the championship and primarly because of premier league money.

The other issue is that the Premier League has become a big brand and big clubs have become big brands within that big brand. 2/3 generations of kids have grown up during a time when having the right brand is seen as important - the right mobile phone, the right trainers, clothes etc. Whereas in my youth kids were either Rovers or  City, nowadays I suspect more premier league club shirts are sold in Bristol than  of the local clubs. How many local kids would be embraced to admit to supporting City ( it's taken as read that any local kid would be embarrassed to admit to supporting Rovers!) 

Sadly, I suspect that youngsters of today who support Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. etc but only through their TV sets, probably still get excited watching games, but whether that excitement can match what I felt standing on the Ashton Gate terraces as kid I wonder.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

 

I think what a lot of people forget now is that German Bundesliga and the Premier League are now the only top leagues where teams are making profit and that is in spite of £800m+ spending in the transfer window. Couple that with the fact that the Premier League is the fastest and most unpredictable league in the world.

From an investment point of view - lots of spending on exotic players and making a profit - not many countries' football teams can compete with that.

Also, I really don't understand this "hate" for the premier league on here. Don't get me wrong, I love Bristol City and they will come before any other team in the world for me, however, anyone who says they can't stand the premier league is kidding themselves. As a neutral, it is by far the most exciting football to watch. The pace and unpredictability is unmatched - hence the global audiences.

You could argue that it is hurting our national game. There are elements to that and i do completely disagree with the rules that allow Chelsea to send 30+ players out on loan. However, my opinion is that it is a reluctance of English players to move abroad to play 1st team football when they only play on the bench or for development teams. I point to Danny Ings - had offers from Real Sociedad where he would have been a starter when in form. But he chose to sit on the bench at Liverpool - when both Benteke and Sturridge are fit, there is no chance of him getting any game time other than cameos. If he went to Sociedad and played a full season again, he could have been pushing for the England squad - no chance now.

For those of you who dislike the premier league so much, can you honestly say that you don't want to get promoted this season? Again, you cannot deny that when that day comes it will be by far the most significant day in the club's recent history

 

 

 

I don't dislike the Premier League for its football, I dislike it because it 

A) Harms the national side through low player production and participation for English players

B) Has the worst atmospheres in European football

C) Fans are charged 4 figure prices for the cheapest Season Tickets at some clubs

D) Owners who treat their clubs as a toy with no respect to the fans (Cardiff kit, Hull name, Sports Direct FC)

E) Very little trickle down meaning lower league clubs often overspend and go bust (Hereford etc)

F) Smaller top flight clubs forced to overspend to compete (Pompey etc)

 

 

 

[handsofclay]

As previous posters have stated, the excuse given for the need to form the premier league was to help the national team. Ironically, the world cup prior to the formation of the EPL seen England go out on pens in the semi-finals. Had we won the shootout I'm sure we would've trounced a very poor Argentina side in the final. We have come nowhere near emulating that success since.

When I was a kid I knew all the kits and home grounds of all 92 league clubs. I bet most kids today who follow footballcouldn't even tell you the names of the 24 clubs in the Championship as life appears not to exist beyond the prem.

[grove park city]

Never attended a Premiership match can't say i'm that bothered look at Wolves the chairman abused before the PNE away match not for the 1st time he has  spent good money on the training set-up and on Molineux invested in players been in the Prem now more or less been driven out by unhappy fans all for not reaching the heights they think they should be at.West Ham have shook the cosy set up winning away at Arsenal,Liverpool and Manchester City and its a major shock when in a competitive league this should happen ,the untouchable Chelsea and Arsenal have flopped Manchester City & Liverpool under perform the wake up call seems to be coming,just glad City didn't throw cash down the drain on average over priced strikers adding to the problem. 

[YorkshireSection]

The worst thing about it all, say you said to each champions league/Europa Cup team you have to have at least 6 home grown players in your team, then alarmingly our clubs would be the only ones struggling to put a team out.

something needs to change.

[Rob k]

EPL - best league in the world..........only if Carlsberg did football leagues.

 

I never hear anybody say this in the context your putting it at,  change best to 'most exciting' and that's what is meant by best

 

[And Its Smith]

Oh for the early nineties again

[Kid in the Riot]

Amazed Bolton haven't gone bust yet. Who exactly is going to come along and clear their £170 million of debt?

[Barrs Court Red]

Amazed Bolton haven't gone bust yet. Who exactly is going to come along and clear their £170 million of debt?

when/who was the last club to enter admin? It seemed to be a weekly occurrence a few years back, yet now I'm struggling to think of the last time it happened.

[BS4 on Tour...]

Once again no one gives credit to the opposition. No one has a devine right to beat teams like Porto, olypiakos, juventus etc. these teams are a match for anyone in the world, especially at home where their home support is fanatical.

stmospheres at arsenal, Chelsea, Man yoo, man city are terrible its no wonder English teams have been struggling. English/tourist supporters are conference standard. 

Id argue supporters of these clubs need to up their game off the field to help those on it.

Agree with you mate, but some conference (national league?!) clubs have very loyal, vocal fans who would probably resent being compared to tourist day-trippers who support whoever is doing well at the height of our game.

And you're right that teams who beat our best clubs often deserve to these days. They aren't afraid of Premier League clubs anymore.

To me you'll never beat the days in the late seventies/early eighties when we won the European Cup every year because clubs like Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Moncheongladbach (sp?!), Hamburg, Bruges, Roma etc just didn't like coming up against a team of committed, 'up and at em' tough, physical blokes who were used to hundred miles an hour game week in week out on rubbish pitches!

A pure joy to behold!

I don't like this circus of show ponies that is the modern, and ridiculously named, champions league...