Ched Evans Appeal

[BS4 on Tour...]

Regardless of anything, she had still drunk too much to be able to consent

Here we go again  

With all due respect, how do you know that? Were you there? 

It's dangerous to believe all that you read in the media. 

If the legal system has concluded that there are grounds to appeal then something isn't right.

 

[Bs4Red]

Firstly there is a long way to go before his conviction is or is not quashed and secondly and far more importantly your anger is firmly pointed in the wrong direction, if this 'new information' was not presented to the jury in the original trial then your anger should be turned upon his original defence team, who didn't do a very good job in the first place in either investigating and uncovering this 'new information' or if in possession of it not presenting it, probably the reason that he has new counsel.

 

Apparently the evidence wasn't allowed due to his job and some technical reasoning. 

[TBW]

Are you serious chaps?

Which piece of evidence makes him innocent beyond doubt? I have not seen any that's for sure.

Which piece of evidence makes him guilty beyond doubt? I have not seen any that's for sure.

Regardless of anything, she had still drunk too much to be able to consent

Here we go again  

And that is also her responsibility. She is as responsible as he is.

[cityexile]

Which piece of evidence makes him guilty beyond doubt? I have not seen any that's for sure.

And that is also her responsibility. She is as responsible as he is.

Last statement is in no way supported by the current law of the land. Sadly it is the 'hidden view' that has informed many opinions it seems. 

Talking generally, not about this case, it is rape to have sex with somebody who simply cannot give consent, for whatever reason. Some may not like it, but it simply is.

If somebody is drunk, is it ok to mug them, beat them up, commit GBH on them because they are drunk? I have been drunk in my youth many times. I would not have taken kindly to waking up, finding I had been buggered, and then told it was as much my fault as the person that did it.

 

[Dollymarie]

 

And that is also her responsibility. She is as responsible as he is.

In this case, the jury decided that in the eyes of the law she was unable to give consent due to her being so drunk. 

 

Here you go, read this. Sums things up from my point of view pretty well. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/30743018/ched-evans-the-definition-of-rape-and-consent

[Bs4Red]

 

Are you serious chaps?

Which piece of evidence makes him innocent beyond doubt? I have not seen any that's for sure.

Just my opinion, I don't believe he's a rapist, I think what he did was morally wrong but after watching the videos and CCTV and reading all accounts I personally feel this case has more to it than Rapist or Not A Rapist

[Spoons]

Just my opinion, I don't believe he's a rapist, I think what he did was morally wrong but after watching the videos and CCTV and reading all accounts I personally feel this case has more to it than Rapist or Not A Rapist

know one on here can claim to have watched cctv or read articles then base That as a defence for your opinion?? Why don't you/everyone just let justice run its course. I'm sure the courts have got alot more evidence etc to go through than what you have read in the papers! As it stands he is a convicted rapist.. Fact. Its up to his legal team to prove otherwise. But I do appreciate this is a difficult case but that's even more reason to have faith in the jury that found him guilty first time round.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarcusX]

'Truly innocent' is an interesting concept in this case.  The issue for the Appeals Court to decide is whether his conviction for rape is safe or not.  However, I have difficulty concluding that any footballer who has sex with a drunken woman while in a stable relationship with someone else can be regarded as 'truly innocent'.  If the Appeals Court overturns his conviction then he is a very lucky young man.  He may then be not guilty of the offence with which he was charged, but 'truly innocent'?  Sorry, not in my book.  Footballers and the like who think they can exert control over other people through their status and their wealth need to take a look at their behaviour, if you ask me. 

yet it's ok for a woman to target a footballer because of their status or wealth? Not suggesting that's what happened of course because that would be slanderous. (Once she learned who he was I mean, there's no suggestion she targeted him on the night)

My personal stance on the case is that a lot of people seem to think it completely unthinkable that a girl would consent to sleeping with two men in such a short space of time and therefore must have been without consent and he's just "jumped in". He's put himself in a dangerous position considering who he is, but at the time probably thought he was doing nothing wrong.

that being said, he has been convicted of rape, as it stands he IS a rapist and therefore I empathise with stance taken by people like Jessica Ennis and Sheffield United as a club.

 

[cityexile]

 

My personal stance on the case is that a lot of people seem to think it completely unthinkable that a girl would consent to sleeping with two men in such a short space of time and therefore must have been without consent and he's just "jumped in". He's put himself in a dangerous position considering who he is, but at the time probably thought he was doing nothing wrong.

 

The only way we come to a decision on difficult areas like this is to have a very high threshold for conviction. Central to that is a jury. Having listened to all the evidence (available at the time) they decided unanimously that it was rape. It frankly does not matter what anyone else thinks, unless we are going to convict on a straw poll of what people may or may not have read. 

There is now seemingly new evidence that either was not available, or not used by the defence team at the time. The Appeal may then succeed on the basis the conviction is unsafe. We must await that.If that happens, it will almost certainly turn on the new evidence showing that he could reasonably have believed she had consented. 

The general principle remains. Any person who has sex with another who cannot give consent is committing rape. No contributory negligence, no 'she (or he) was as much to blame for getting drunk', no blaming the victim whatsoever.

It would be rape.

 

[LondonBristolian]

Well, if he is found to be innocent how will the many on here who condemned him react?!

So many people believe rumour and digest tabloid speculation - he got loads of abuse and condemnation on here from people who just chose the bandwagon approach.

 

Erm, I don't think it was rumour and tabloid speculation.  I think he got a lot of condemnation on here because he was convicted of rape in a court of law and, as it stands, he at present is a convicted rapist.  Which happened because, based on the original trial, a jury felt there was sufficient proof to convict him of rape.  Whatever happened from here on in, that's nothing to do with rumour and speculation. 

[Bs4Red]

know one on here can claim to have watched cctv or read articles then base That as a defence for your opinion?? Why don't you/everyone just let justice run its course. I'm sure the courts have got alot more evidence etc to go through than what you have read in the papers! As it stands he is a convicted rapist.. Fact. Its up to his legal team to prove otherwise. But I do appreciate this is a difficult case but that's even more reason to have faith in the jury that found him guilty first time round.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything I have read on this case has come from the court and what they let out, along with the CCTV footage they had, I don't read papers. All of this is easily accessible and I'm not disagreeing with you that he is a convicted rapist at this moment in time but we will see what happens. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

know one on here can claim to have watched cctv or read articles then base That as a defence for your opinion?? Why don't you/everyone just let justice run its course. I'm sure the courts have got alot more evidence etc to go through than what you have read in the papers! As it stands he is a convicted rapist.. Fact. Its up to his legal team to prove otherwise. But I do appreciate this is a difficult case but that's even more reason to have faith in the jury that found him guilty first time round.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, are you saying that the CCTV/video evidence should be disregarded? And, I have to ask, where is there always so much 'space' under your posts when no-one else seems to achieve that?!

[Spoons]

So, are you saying that the CCTV/video evidence should be disregarded? And, I have to ask, where is there always so much 'space' under your posts when no-one else seems to achieve that?!

No not disregarded but realise there is more than just cctv /video evidence. And lets realise the jury would have seen all the evidence then came to the guilty decision. Now to the important bit.. Its a mystery why there is so much space under my posts?! Its not me, sometimes it doesn't let me reply at all. Not sure, I use mobile as tablet broke.

 

 

 

[Spoons]

Everything I have read on this case has come from the court and what they let out, along with the CCTV footage they had, I don't read papers. All of this is easily accessible and I'm not disagreeing with you that he is a convicted rapist at this moment in time but we will see what happens. 

Important bit you said 'what they let out'. The bit they didn't let out is probably the bit that they(jury) felt was enough to say guilty. If he gets his conviction overturned then fine but untill then put faith in the justice system.

[shelts]

Ched must be a City target I can see him playing just behind the front two in the hole

[Spoons]

Ched must be a City target I can see him playing just behind the front two in the hole

brave or stupid?? Not sure. You must have been up all night planning that hilarious joke?

 

 

 

[Bs4Red]

brave or stupid?? Not sure. You must have been up all night planning that hilarious joke?

 

 

 

If he wasn't a rapist he would actually be a top player right now. Had the world at his feet and blew it

[Spoons]

If he wasn't a rapist he would actually be a top player right now. Had the world at his feet and blew it

agreed this all seemed to happen when his form was excellent and scoring for fun. But that 'if' he wasn't a rapist is irrelevant because he is untill proved otherwise.

 

 

 

[Jesus]

[AshtonGreat]

Regardless of anything, she had still drunk too much to be able to consent

Here we go again  

The level of someone's inebriation is a very grey area though isn't it. How can anyone truly know?

[Dollymarie]

The level of someone's inebriation is a very grey area though isn't it. How can anyone truly know?

that's what the jury and the first lot of appeal court judges decided, hence the guilty verdict. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Apparently the evidence wasn't allowed due to his job and some technical reasoning. 

What does that even mean?.

 

[Bs4Red]

What does that even mean?.

 

SSN said something along these lines, due to his occupation at the time that evidence couldn't be used. 

[downendcity]

The level of someone's inebriation is a very grey area though isn't it. How can anyone truly know?

In my experience, the level of someone's inebriation is usually a multicoloured area.

[downendcity]

I have to ask, where is there always so much 'space' under your posts when no-one else seems to achieve that?!

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've though the same.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

SSN said something along these lines, due to his occupation at the time that evidence couldn't be used. 

Everything I have read on this case has come from the court and what they let out, along with the CCTV footage they had, I don't read papers. All of this is easily accessible and I'm not disagreeing with you that he is a convicted rapist at this moment in time but we will see what happens. 

You don't read the papers but obviously read and quote his 'propaganda' website and SSN?.

[BRISTOL86]

The level of someone's inebriation is a very grey area though isn't it. How can anyone truly know?

Grey area doesn't even come close. I can't think of any other examples where the responsibility for your own welfare at some indeterminate point passes onto another person without notice!

Him : Hello my dear, what a super smashing blouse you have on. Want to do it with me?

Her : Yeah ok. 

The next morning it turns out she was too drunk to consent and he can be prosecuted because she drank too much to make good decisions?

Not saying that's what's happened in this case but how on earth can a jury possibly decide whether or not 

a) she was too inebriated to make a consent decision

b) it's the man's responsibility to ensure that a) hasn't happened

And at what point does the responsibility for her actions pass to him, considering everyone's reaction to alcohol is different. And how is level of inebriation measured after the event? Or am I missing something?

What if they're both equally inebriated and therefore he isn't able to make a good decision about whether or not she is too inebriated to make a good decision....you could play that game all day! 

I knew a girl that as far as I can tell has been drunk since around 1993 - is it rape every time she jumps into bed with someone?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Grey area doesn't even come close. I can't think of any other examples where the responsibility for your own welfare at some indeterminate point passes onto another person without notice!

Him : Hello my dear, what a super smashing blouse you have on. Want to do it with me?

Her : Yeah ok. 

The next morning it turns out she was too drunk to consent and he can be prosecuted because she drank too much to make good decisions?

Not saying that's what's happened in this case but how on earth can a jury possibly decide whether or not 

a) she was too inebriated to make a consent decision

b) it's the man's responsibility to ensure that a) hasn't happened

And at what point does the responsibility for her actions pass to him, considering everyone's reaction to alcohol is different. And how is level of inebriation measured after the event? Or am I missing something?

What if they're both equally inebriated and therefore he isn't able to make a good decision about whether or not she is too inebriated to make a good decision....you could play that game all day! 

I knew a girl that as far as I can tell has been drunk since around 1993 - is it rape every time she jumps into bed with someone?

it's simple really, why put yourself into that position?, especially when there is 4 or 5 of you involved?, it is a recipe for disaster especially if you are a professional footballer and if you do put yourself into that position bigger fool you, especially when you have a girlfriend at home (whom you claim to love) and better still is the daughter of a millionaire.

The consequences of what Evans did should be clear enough for any professional footballer, sadly the message never filtered through to the 3 young Leicester players earlier this year.

So if you are a professional footballer and you and your mates go looking for a drunken female to humiliate, think again, because it really ain't worth it, leave her to humiliate herself or you might pay the price of a career in tatters, a spell inside, all things that you cannot change.

As for the appeal unless this 'new witness' was actually in the room during the act, I suspect that his/her evidence will only serve for a judgement of, armed with this new evidence, a jury might not have convicted, which considering it is almost impossible for the appeal court to order a re-trial (because he has already served his prison sentence) it is still not and will never be absolute exoneration.

 

[BCFC Jimmer]

The level of someone's inebriation is a very grey area though isn't it. How can anyone truly know?

Hang on everyone.

I thought a fundamental reason that Ched was in the wrong is that he hadn't even been on the night out with this girl?  He just turned up at the hotel because his mate told him to come over to get his end away.  That is a sick thing to do, or am I living in a different world to some people?

She was completely justified to wake up the next morning and think, "errr, hang on - that wasn't right". 

Jeez, I have ended up in some strange situations with mates over the years when drinking - but I still know that what Ched did was completely out of order and I would never put myself in that situation.  Unfortunately you get this 'lad' mentality these days where young men think behavior like this is acceptable.  There is also a stigma which if she isn't found kicking and screaming with bruises all over her that it can't be rape.

 

[Septic Peg]

Regardless of anything, she had still drunk too much to be able to consent

Here we go again  

I agree 100%. Innocent or not, the guy took advantage of a clearly very drunk woman and cheated on his Mrs. That makes him a scumbag in my book. If found innocent and aquitted, it should have no bearing on his future employment but if he chatted me up in a bar? I'd tell him where he can go...

This also applies to women who take advantage of very drunk men and same sex couples. You just can't take advantage of people.