Major Isewater Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: No - I still don't understand why he should be starting games just because he does for Wales U21's. I trust Cotts - who sees Wes every day in training - over a manager who has very limited time with a squad. I stand by the fact that in his 30 odd appearances for City I've seen almost nothing to make me think he should be starting games for us. I have never said he should a ) be starting or b ) it's because he played for the Wales U21's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I'm in the camp of "he could've been used more" this season. When you've watched an exhausted Wilbraham failing to make headway in the opposition half for the last half hour of games - yet we have a young, quick striker on the bench - you have to think he was worth a punt on occasions. Talk about giving him a starting place is daft however. The introduction of Burns v Leeds seemed to do us no harm. In fact he crossed the ball for the second goal? Agree he definitely should've been used more, same as Reid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I have never said he should a ) be starting or b ) it's because he played for the Wales U21's . Well this whole thread came up because he scored a goal in the Wales U21's, then there's the usual OTIB hysteria about how we're 'missing out'. You say that the Wales coaches see something we don't - has it occurred that he's maybe just the best of a poor bunch? I don't mean to disrespect Wes but I can only assume he's not tearing up trees in training here or he'd be getting game time. How much time do the Wales coaches spend seeing him train/play in comparison to Cotts? Not much I'd suggest. I'd also stick my neck out and say that I highly doubt the standard of the likes of Romania's U21's will be anywhere near the standard of your average Championship team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 34 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Wouldn't call a team with Bale and Ramsey in 'minimal resources' but they still did well. Still doesn't mean Burns scoring against Romania U21s is anything to get in a frenzy about! I know he's been used sparingly at City but I'm yet to see much at all from him to suggest he should be starting games. Maybe that's because Wes has never played in his natural position of centre-forward at City, apart from a cameo role against Chesterfield last season - when he scored in the last minute. In a team that's struggling to score goals, what's the harm in blooding players who may do just that? Would he be worse than Wilbraham, Agard, Robinson (another forward who is played out of position), or Cox (forever on the bench)? I'm just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 15 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: The introduction of Burns v Leeds seemed to do us no harm. In fact he crossed the ball for the second goal? Agree he definitely should've been used more, same as Reid... Wouldn't say were particularly struggling to score - Cardiff are 7th and have scored less than us. Our problem is keeping the ball out of our own net! I agree that Wes can be a good impact player and cause tired defences headaches, but can you honestly see him as a strike partner for Kodjia? Wilbs has been a good foil for JK and the fact that we're bringing in Cox just to sit on the bench suggests Cotts doesn't have any immediate plans for Wes. Think he will end up moving on. A loan to L1 would probably be in everyone's interests. Did he make much of an impact in his prior loan spells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Freeman is living off past memories of last season, Reid deserves his place imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 minute ago, Super said: Freeman is living off past memories of last season, Reid deserves his place imo. Definitely. There's a player who's taken his chance when it's come along. Deserves a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Some good points far too many to quote. I am at a failure to think that some form of a cox, burnsfront line with ried in the freeman roll is not a worthwhile option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 25 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Definitely. There's a player who's taken his chance when it's come along. Deserves a start. Certainly never thought I would be saying that! Fair play to Bobby though certainly proving me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 23 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: Wouldn't say were particularly struggling to score - Cardiff are 7th and have scored less than us. Our problem is keeping the ball out of our own net! I agree that Wes can be a good impact player and cause tired defences headaches, but can you honestly see him as a strike partner for Kodjia? Wilbs has been a good foil for JK and the fact that we're bringing in Cox just to sit on the bench suggests Cotts doesn't have any immediate plans for Wes. Think he will end up moving on. A loan to L1 would probably be in everyone's interests. Did he make much of an impact in his prior loan spells? We've scored just 17 goals in 16 League games and have only converted 2 on 5 occasions. Our best scoreline is 2-0 and we sit 20th in The Championship; so I beg to differ about not struggling to score. To your second point, Wes' pace and potential to press defenders would mean that we'll defend better from the front. If we turn the ball over closer to the opposition goal, it'll be easier for Kodjia to score. And we'll never know how good Wes is, until he starts a game in his natural position; centre forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 hours ago, brizzlelou said: Some of the grammar today is atrocious Don't you mean some of the grammar today HAS BEEN atrocious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Sorry but your original post was incoherent. It's not the fact that Burns scored in the Wales u 21's so much as the coaches of the Wales national set up see something in him that our coaches apparently don't . When the lad has had cameo rôles for us there have been enough moments to suggest that there is a talent there that should be nurtured. I don't think our staff have found the best position for him yet and i think that's what holds back his progress . i don't have a love in for the boy but it i do get frustrated when i see unfulfilled talent . Hamer , took a little while to settle , new defenders to work with etc but he was getting better and had a MOTM performance at Boro only to be dropped as soon as Frankie was fit .i like Frankie but feel that Hamer is technically the better of the two . i admire Cott's faith in his young team but think that no one should see themselves as undroppable if their standards lower. what message does that send to other players in the squad ? In answer to your question , any of them could , and perhaps , should have been rested as it was quite clear that some of them were shot . i like Freeman but since the start of the season he's been having a stinker . Sent off , open goal misses , ineffectuel free kicks ... I would have rested him . Wilbs is another , clear to see that he was out on his feet but Cotts never showed confidence in the subs to bring them on and change things around a bit . He stubbornly persisted with the same tactics. Of course i am not party to all that goes on at City and am not a professional coach , these are just my opinions. 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Sorry but your original post was incoherent. It's not the fact that Burns scored in the Wales u 21's so much as the coaches of the Wales national set up see something in him that our coaches apparently don't . When the lad has had cameo rôles for us there have been enough moments to suggest that there is a talent there that should be nurtured. I don't think our staff have found the best position for him yet and i think that's what holds back his progress . i don't have a love in for the boy but it i do get frustrated when i see unfulfilled talent . Hamer , took a little while to settle , new defenders to work with etc but he was getting better and had a MOTM performance at Boro only to be dropped as soon as Frankie was fit .i like Frankie but feel that Hamer is technically the better of the two . i admire Cott's faith in his young team but think that no one should see themselves as undroppable if their standards lower. what message does that send to other players in the squad ? In answer to your question , any of them could , and perhaps , should have been rested as it was quite clear that some of them were shot . i like Freeman but since the start of the season he's been having a stinker . Sent off , open goal misses , ineffectuel free kicks ... I would have rested him . Wilbs is another , clear to see that he was out on his feet but Cotts never showed confidence in the subs to bring them on and change things around a bit . He stubbornly persisted with the same tactics. Of course i am not party to all that goes on at City and am not a professional coach , these are just my opinions. My original post highlights the fact that many clamour for certain players to be played or dropped for peculiar reasons but when they are, it doesn't have the desired effect. A clamour for Wes to start (whilst quoting the success of a squad he has not been part of) based on a goal v Romania U21 does mystify me though. I've seen virtually every 1st team game that Wes has ever played for City and remain unconvinced at his ability to be worth 90 mins at this level. Last season he wasn't always deemed to be worth 90 in L2 and finished the season being relegated to the Conference. However, ew things would make me happier than to see Burns, Bryan and Reid as regulars though. As for Freeman v Reid: I have always rated Bobby very highly despite what's been said about him by posters on here. If rested means dropped then I completely agree that Freeman should be dropped for Reid. There aren't any others who I'd drop though who haven't already been. The idea that Cotts won't drop someone is as absurd as it's untrue- Little, Bryan, Wilbs. His problem, imo, lies with an inability to utilise a sub when it seems the most obvious thing in the world. As for undroppable Wilbs errr well he's been dropped but I fully expect him to return at some point and make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I wouldn't worry much about burns leaving in Jan or at the end of the season because Cox will certainly be going back and after the seaso Wilbs will almost certainly be retiring/leaving us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 3 hours ago, djb6162 said: and being chased by five championship clubs as we speak, and sits 5 places below BC in the league ............ for now !!! Chased? What has changed in 10 weeks to cause that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brizzlelou Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 2 hours ago, Southport Red said: Don't you mean some of the grammar today HAS BEEN atrocious? hey'o!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 8 hours ago, Selred said: Elis Harrison is in the Wales under 21 squad and he's only good enough for a struggling league two side. Wales currently haven't got a good batch of forwards. So congrats to Wes for getting the opportunity to train with the first team squad, but it's not as if he's keeping any other quality players out. 2 hours ago, Drew Peacock said: Chased? What has changed in 10 weeks to cause that? So look , i cant speak for the managers of Blackburn, preston , brentford, etc, but a wild guess from me would be that he is a number 9 who is actually scoring some goals and his team sit at the top of L1 as a result. that always has the desired effect. his recent call into the senior welsh squad may also have helped !! Who knows, i am just quoting what i read, but if I were a betting man, he wont be at walsal next season, or even come february. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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