BobBobSuperBob Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 As I said on anther thread - a very valuable 3 points and credit to them But before we get carried away, and I'm as chuffed as anyone at today's win, let's see whether we can actually string a few results together at some point - that's what we need to do to keep out of trouble Before the 'everything's fine' brigade churn out more of their 'told you so threads' we havnt gone away and clinically taken all three points - (credit to the lads for a battling performance and the three points ) and still need to improve / become more consistent I hope that the optimists are right and we will indeed be fine, the timing of today's win certainly helps but Let's see how we do / perform over the next 2/3 games before we declare a new dawn has risen COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: As I said on anther thread - a very valuable 3 points and credit to them But before we get carried away, and I'm as chuffed as anyone at today's win, let's see whether we can actually string a few results together at some point - that's what we need to do to keep out of trouble Before the 'everything's fine' brigade churn out more of their 'told you so threads' we havnt gone away and clinically taken all three points - (credit to the lads for a battling performance and the three points ) and still need to improve / become more consistent I hope that the optimists are right and we will indeed be fine, the timing of today's win certainly helps but Let's see how we do / perform over the next 2/3 games before we declare a new dawn has risen COYR Going to be very tough to get anything against Derby, but if we did grab a draw, then you would have to say it would represent an exceptional 4 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 27 minutes ago, reddogkev said: Disagree - nothing disgraceful about it whatsoever - if a club is sliding into relegation places then the manager is at risk - doesn't matter one little bit what the manager has done in the past. The point made previously is: being promoted last season doesn't make a difference to a manager's standing this season - you surely don't just sit back and let a manager relegate a club just on the chance he might secure promotion again next time??? One for the Burnley fans to debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 59 minutes ago, cummins17 said: Disgraceful hearing people call for cotts to be fired on here. Think your forgetting this is the man who single handedly saved us from relegation to league 2. Even if we do get relegated cotts deserves a season to get us back up. And with that attitude that is why we shall always be a league one, championship yo yo club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: One for the Burnley fans to debate? oooh, that is a damn good point and one to really chew over until the wee hours of the morning... I guess you could ponder whether Burnley fans would have been happy if Sean Dyche was sacked in December of their Prem season (would've been controversial), and then if the club broke with tradition and went against their structure, and brought in a more experienced coach who then managed to keep Burnley in the Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 21 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: As I said on anther thread - a very valuable 3 points and credit to them But before we get carried away, and I'm as chuffed as anyone at today's win, let's see whether we can actually string a few results together at some point - that's what we need to do to keep out of trouble Before the 'everything's fine' brigade churn out more of their 'told you so threads' we havnt gone away and clinically taken all three points - (credit to the lads for a battling performance and the three points ) and still need to improve / become more consistent I hope that the optimists are right and we will indeed be fine, the timing of today's win certainly helps but Let's see how we do / perform over the next 2/3 games before we declare a new dawn has risen COYR Absolutely bang on. Superb result today - especially as another defeat could have pushed us into a real slump but it's not about picking up a result here or a result there but whether we can progressively get better over the course of the season. Nothing Cotts has said at any point in the summer or since gives me the impression he'd have been happy with 19th at the start of the season I think the people who claim success = 4th from bottom are being a bit revisionist in terms of the club and the manager's ambitions before the season, where the media expected us to be and where the fans wanted us to be. I get the impression Cotts wants us to be ambitious, I'm sure SL does and we've got to take this win and push on from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: Absolutely bang on. Superb result today - especially as another defeat could have pushed us into a real slump but it's not about picking up a result here or a result there but whether we can progressively get better over the course of the season. Nothing Cotts has said at any point in the summer or since gives me the impression he'd have been happy with 19th at the start of the season I think the people who claim success = 4th from bottom are being a bit revisionist in terms of the club and the manager's ambitions before the season, where the media expected us to be and where the fans wanted us to be. I get the impression Cotts wants us to be ambitious, I'm sure SL does and we've got to take this win and push on from here. and his job will be a bit easier if hes got the full support of the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina's Rolls Royce Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 41 minutes ago, reddogkev said: oooh, that is a damn good point and one to really chew over until the wee hours of the morning... I guess you could ponder whether Burnley fans would have been happy if Sean Dyche was sacked in December of their Prem season (would've been controversial), and then if the club broke with tradition and went against their structure, and brought in a more experienced coach who then managed to keep Burnley in the Prem? and if my uncle had boobs she'd be my Aunt..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfieldred Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 short termism never has been and never will be the answer. o'driscoll was worse than mcinnes was worse than Millen was worse than Johnson. Changing managers doesn't work unless you really are playing awful as was the case when SC took over. Like I said after Rotherham, we were on a decent run of 8 games. On its day this team has competed well with the best this division has to offer. Unfortunately they've also lost or drawn to some of the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 1 hour ago, redsquirrel said: and his job will be a bit easier if hes got the full support of the fans Of course it would. So would any managers. But fans are perfectly entitled to their views. What I don't really get is why it gets so divisive. Cotterill did brilliantly last season. We'd all like us to be doing a bit better than we are this season. Therefore it's great that we won today. I don't think any of those three sentences are particularly contentious or controversial so I don't really get why everything on here descends into an argument. Yes, it'd be nice if everyone felt the manager was the right person for the job but it would also be nice if the supporters are fighting amongst themselves. Above all, I don't get why some fans feel that we all have to decide to either be on Cotterill's side or the board's. Both SL and SC want the club to do well. Last season went brilliantly because both made great decisions. Cotts turned the club around when he joined but it was Lansdown who made a call to change the manager and made a brilliant judgement call in bringing someone in who wasn't universally loved at his previous clubs but proved to be absolutely the right man for the job. Similarly, whilst we don't know the ins and outs of exactly what went wrong with our transfer business over the summer, a huge part of our season last year was brilliant summer transfer business to get our players in early and end up with the best squad in the division. Whether you think our transfer business is primarily driven by Burt, Cotterill, the board or a combination of the three, you still can't blame whoever you settle upon for our transfer business this summer without crediting them for last year. And ultimately what worked so well last season was that the club was united, there was a brilliant feeling around the place and every player, manager or chairman interview suggested everyone was on the same page and working together. Frankly the supporters who jump on other supporter's backs for having a different view to them and criticise the board despite none of us having the full picture of what's going on are every bit as divisive as the supporters who get on a manager's back at the first sign of a defeat. People have to accept it's a message board and different supporters will have different opinions about what was a realistic target for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 5 hours ago, NOTBLUE said: Home form is concerning because that's what will ultimately decide our fate,the odd away win is very welcome but home form is the nuts and bolts of it. 5 hours ago, ciderup said: Bang on! Results at the Gate will decide if we will stay up or not. We HAVE to sort our home form out. It's a concern of mine as well TBH. I was under the impression that away wins were worth just as many points as home wins. it doesnt matter where they come, 3 points are 3 points, no matter what ground you are playing at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 On 5 December 2015 at 19:57, reddogkev said: If we lose the next one, then SC has to go, no questions asked whatsoever. It really is Judgement Week for the gaffer. Modern football doesn't do loyalty I'm afraid, and to put it quite simply, losing to Huddersfield and crashing back into the relegation spots will mean that SC has failed. On the positive for us, there would still be plenty of time for a new man to turn things around and push us up to safety. Easier to say after the game but no, it wouldn't. Three defeats in a row is not good but to say he's failed by us dropping into the relegation zone after 20 games would be a ridiculous overreaction. There's still 26 to play, the one thing this win shows is how tight it is in the league. We're 10 points off 9th, being three more away wouldn't be a 'failure'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger10 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garland-sweden Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 We have won 3 of the latest 10 games. 4 of 20. Think it shows we are progressing. Cotts is not Jesus but I Think still he is the right man. Would prefer 4 at the back, but all in all the reults talk for themselves since Cotts arrived. Our budget is lower than most of the clubs in this leauge. Can we avoid relegation I Think we can be better prepared for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 10 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said: and if my uncle had boobs she'd be my Aunt..... Do moobs count or am I just a pedant? As we're a divisive bunch, I'm a self proclaimed optimist in this instance. I'm sure hoping this era of one bad run = the sack draws to a close soon. Re the 4/20 win ratio that's being touted, I know it's not good. It should though come with the warning that there are five other clubs in a similar predicament. The other big claim that there is no sentiment in football is not as simplistic as is claimed. Mourinho at Chelski is a current example that bucks it. What gets my goat is this reflection of society at large whereby people seem to feel entitled to everything NOW. I'm an advocate of the old school virtues of meritocracy meaning opportunity combined with hard work, dedication, character etc. As chuffed as the next of you for yesterday's result, some well earned respite for us. It is a demonstration of the Churchillian spirit that's required for the job in hand. Congratulations to Cotterill, the lads and those that travelled yesterday. "NEVER EVER EVER GIVE UP" ~ Sir Winston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 12 hours ago, reddogkev said: oooh, that is a damn good point and one to really chew over until the wee hours of the morning... I guess you could ponder whether Burnley fans would have been happy if Sean Dyche was sacked in December of their Prem season (would've been controversial), and then if the club broke with tradition and went against their structure, and brought in a more experienced coach who then managed to keep Burnley in the Prem? Thing with Burnley though their promotion was a bit different to ours and Dyche's position this season is different to what Cotts' would be next season if we went down again and he stayed. The key is money and expectation. We are a club that had established ourselves in the Championship, started spending Championship level wages and, even with the cutting back of the McInnes level, the intention was for us to be sustained as a Championship club. Last season the goal was promotion and the level of spending on transfer fees and wages reflected that. Cotterill did a brilliant job to get us up as spectacularly and dominantly as we did but ultimately anything less than the play-offs would have been a disappointed and would have left Cotts under pressure to get us up this season or his job would be at risk. (Just look at Sheffield United, a comparable club where Clough managed a similar level of turnaround the season he came in but, unlike Cotts, didn't get them up last season and paid the price). Nobody at Burnley expected or budgeted for promotion. Last season in the Premier League was an unexpected bonus and the club never really spent enough to establish themselves as a Premier League club. So they came back down having had a bonus year in the top flight, a load of unexpected income and as a much stronger side in the division they expected to be competing in. If we went down next season we'd be a division below the division the board (and I suspect most fans) feel we 'should' be competing in, spending too much for that division and back at square one - despite spending a load of money on a bigger stadium to make us more competitive in the long run. Us staying in the Championship is far more of a necessity than Burnley staying in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 51 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Do moobs count or am I just a pedant? As we're a divisive bunch, I'm a self proclaimed optimist in this instance. I'm sure hoping this era of one bad run = the sack draws to a close soon. Re the 4/20 win ratio that's being touted, I know it's not good. It should though come with the warning that there are five other clubs in a similar predicament. The other big claim that there is no sentiment in football is not as simplistic as is claimed. Mourinho at Chelski is a current example that bucks it. What gets my goat is this reflection of society at large whereby people seem to feel entitled to everything NOW. I'm an advocate of the old school virtues of meritocracy meaning opportunity combined with hard work, dedication, character etc. As chuffed as the next of you for yesterday's result, some well earned respite for us. It is a demonstration of the Churchillian spirit that's required for the job in hand. Congratulations to Cotterill, the lads and those that travelled yesterday. "NEVER EVER EVER GIVE UP" ~ Sir Winston I think the idea that people want things 'now' is a bit of a 'straw man' argument. I don't think any supporters think we should be storming the league. What I think people want is evidence of progress. My personal concern before yesterday's game was that, after appearing to steadily get better after a slow start, we'd started to collapse into dreadful results and dreadful performances and the slide needed to be arrested. Yesterday's result hopefully means it has been. If we build on that, which hopefully will, then all will be fine. And I won't really mind if we finish 18th or 19th or 20th as long as we don't go down and there's evidence we're slowly getting better. But we have to build on yesterday. Relegation would be a disaster and must be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I think the idea that people want things 'now' is a bit of a 'straw man' argument. I don't think any supporters think we should be storming the league. What I think people want is evidence of progress. My personal concern before yesterday's game was that, after appearing to steadily get better after a slow start, we'd started to collapse into dreadful results and dreadful performances and the slide needed to be arrested. Yesterday's result hopefully means it has been. If we build on that, which hopefully will, then all will be fine. And I won't really mind if we finish 18th or 19th or 20th as long as we don't go down and there's evidence we're slowly getting better. But we have to build on yesterday. Relegation would be a disaster and must be avoided. Had to look up 'straw man argument' to see what you meant, fair enough. Your final paragraph there, is the truth for me and have thought it for as soon as I realised that this season was not going to be a walk in the park. Bringing this back into context, "Give Cotts one more game" just does not strike me as a sensible ploy in the same way that he can't reinvent us with a different system mid-season. It's tacit, IF we up shit creek without a paddle it would be the final chuck of the dice. Yesterday's result showed we're not. Circumstances are challenging. I strongly, strongly feel that a change of management, at this point, would be ill-advised. We're only chatting. It's if or when the vast majority of supporters at AG demand a change ala McCinness, SL will take notice of what we think. The proof's in the pooding on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Firstly, I am a confirmed pessimist after a lifetime of seeing City messing up so often. But I looked at the current stats for The Championship and they are interesting. Last 6 games. W2 D2 L2. 8 pts 13th in League. Last 8 games. W2 D3 L3. 9 pts 17th Last 10 games W3 D3 L4. 12 pts 15th IF and it is a big IF, we can get two or three wins on thebounce to lift us away from the bottom six mini league, we could then probably be safe without any improvement in form/points gathered. And while on stats, I reckon we will beat QPR. Their away record this season is W3 D1 L6 Goals for 7 Goals against 14. Hardly tearing up trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 10 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Had to look up 'straw man argument' to see what you meant, fair enough. Your final paragraph there, is the truth for me and have thought it for as soon as I realised that this season was not going to be a walk in the park. Bringing this back into context, "Give Cotts one more game" just does not strike me as a sensible ploy in the same way that he can't reinvent us with a different system mid-season. It's tacit, IF we up shit creek without a paddle it would be the final chuck of the dice. Yesterday's result showed we're not. Circumstances are challenging. I strongly, strongly feel that a change of management, at this point, would be ill-advised. We're only chatting. It's if or when the vast majority of supporters at AG demand a change ala McCinness, SL will take notice of what we think. The proof's in the pooding on that. I agree that a change of manager's best avoided. There's circumstances where it becomes inevitable but we're not there yet and yesterday's results certainly help with that. I think something that's interesting is I don't reckon anyone would be talking about a change of manager if we were in the days before the transfer window. Because all permanent signings have to be in case by the end of January (admittedly there's still room for loans), it really does put clubs under pressure to ensure they have a manager in place come December that they want to stick with for the rest of the season or else you have a new guy who doesn't have time to get the changes he wants made. So I do think sticking with Cotts now means deciding that he's the man we want for the season. Which is what I'd do, at this point in time, but I do understand why that means anyone who waivers as to whether he's the right man for the job agitates for change more than they might have done in the days when transfer deadline day was in March... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 I would be stunned if the board got rid of Cotterill this season. I can'tell see us pulling up any trees, but I think we'll just survive. Next season will be make or break for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I agree that a change of manager's best avoided. There's circumstances where it becomes inevitable but we're not there yet and yesterday's results certainly help with that. I think something that's interesting is I don't reckon anyone would be talking about a change of manager if we were in the days before the transfer window. Because all permanent signings have to be in case by the end of January (admittedly there's still room for loans), it really does put clubs under pressure to ensure they have a manager in place come December that they want to stick with for the rest of the season or else you have a new guy who doesn't have time to get the changes he wants made. So I do think sticking with Cotts now means deciding that he's the man we want for the season. Which is what I'd do, at this point in time, but I do understand why that means anyone who waivers as to whether he's the right man for the job agitates for change more than they might have done in the days when transfer deadline day was in March... As has been mooted a lot on this forum, which pro-footballer wants to join an unstable ship? I go back to the final paragraph of your previous post: it is critical we stay up. Should the fatal happen though, we're a big fish in the league 1 pool with a guy in charge with a proven track record at that level and all the means in place to bounce straight back. I'll reiterate my sentiment, it's not as progressive as we'd all like, mistakes have been made, circumstances are challenging, but give it time and progress will be made. That's my view anyway. Fanny attacks are not helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 28 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I agree that a change of manager's best avoided. There's circumstances where it becomes inevitable but we're not there yet and yesterday's results certainly help with that. I think something that's interesting is I don't reckon anyone would be talking about a change of manager if we were in the days before the transfer window. Because all permanent signings have to be in case by the end of January (admittedly there's still room for loans), it really does put clubs under pressure to ensure they have a manager in place come December that they want to stick with for the rest of the season or else you have a new guy who doesn't have time to get the changes he wants made. So I do think sticking with Cotts now means deciding that he's the man we want for the season. Which is what I'd do, at this point in time, but I do understand why that means anyone who waivers as to whether he's the right man for the job agitates for change more than they might have done in the days when transfer deadline day was in March... blimey - as daft as it is I'd forgotten that the transfer window used to close in March - and you are absolutely spot on about the affect of transfer windows on managerial sackings - astute post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 We have (just) won more points away than at home, so maybe we should cut them some slack and ease the tension, that players must pick up on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 5 minutes ago, glos old boy said: We have (just) won more points away than at home, so maybe we should cut them some slack and ease the tension, that players must pick up on I'm not saying we will pick up more points away than home this season....but as a percentage in normal years where you usually pick up significantly more at home than away I expect it to be a bit more balanced? Why? I think this league is so tight that anyone can beat anyone, home or away. We can play a little bit more counter attack away from home, where the emphasis on us isn't to make the running. If you look at the league, the balance across the division (bar the top 8), is pretty close....near 50:50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 17 hours ago, robin4ever said: It's funny how quick people jump on a clueless bandwagon . A bottom three budget and success last year and peoples expectations become out of proportion. Success is 4 from bottom... SC inherited a squad bottom of league one and with a few signings , he improved them to win the league ... Then come the summer he does not get the backing he without doubt deserved. Then so called fans/experts do not realise that and talk about sacking him ... Again , really what do the clueless want ??? Ask your mates in the pub? Again, other people have different opinions to you on this. And so far you've said they live in a 'sad little world,' are 'gutted' that City won and they are 'clueless.' You don't like different opinions do you? As you obviously aren't 'clueless' can you give details of the budgets of all the championship clubs as you seem to know we have a 'bottom three budget'?? Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 8 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I'm not saying we will pick up more points away than home this season....but as a percentage in normal years where you usually pick up significantly more at home than away I expect it to be a bit more balanced? Why? I think this league is so tight that anyone can beat anyone, home or away. We can play a little bit more counter attack away from home, where the emphasis on us isn't to make the running. If you look at the league, the balance across the division (bar the top 8), is pretty close....near 50:50. I think what GOB was trying to say is that we as fans put too much pressure on the team at home and that causes nerviness and a reluctance to try anything other than a `safe` ball. If we cut them a bit more slack at AG they might perform better. I must admit, I tend to agree with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 20 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: I think what GOB was trying to say is that we as fans put too much pressure on the team at home and that causes nerviness and a reluctance to try anything other than a `safe` ball. If we cut them a bit more slack at AG they might perform better. I must admit, I tend to agree with him. Yeah completely agree. When the side is struggling results-wise, it can be much tougher at home. Every stray pass gets criticism....and it affects the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said: My personal concern before yesterday's game was that, after appearing to steadily get better after a slow start, we'd started to collapse into dreadful results and dreadful performances and the slide needed to be arrested. Can we just put into context that the dreadful run lasted two games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Again, other people have different opinions to you on this. And so far you've said they live in a 'sad little world,' are 'gutted' that City won and they are 'clueless.' You don't like different opinions do you? As you obviously aren't 'clueless' can you give details of the budgets of all the championship clubs as you seem to know we have a 'bottom three budget'?? Cheers... Spot on The irony is the post itself smacks of clueless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.