I'm sorry to break it to you...

[BUTOR]

But Steve Lansdown is not going to sack the man who took us from bottom of league one to the championship in a season and a half. 

Cotterill WILL be given January to make changes, he's done wonders for us and one bad transfer window is the reason we are struggling, the blame does not lie solely with the manager for players coming to Bristol City.

I'm sorry if you have lost faith in our manager already but slating him online isn't going to change the boards mind. Cotterill will stay and will be given January and it's time everyone accepted that. The team and the manager both deserve the whole of Ashton Gates support, we may not even be in the championship right now if it wasn't for the appointment of Steve Cotterill.  

 

[Redstoke]

Has certainly not done 'wonders' this season with 3 wins in 19 games. He Is a good league 1/2 manager as he has proven in the past. Out of his depth at this level im afraid, Am still waiting for him to prove me wrong but dont think hes going to. To not sub Baker at half time when everyone knew he was gonna get sent off finally confirmed it for me. He simply aint up to it.

[Phileas Fogg]

If we lose every game between now and the new year do you really think he won't be sacked? We could well be bottom of the table. SL's hand would be forced.

[The Gasbuster]

20 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

But Steve Lansdown is not going to sack the man who took us from bottom of league one to the championship in a season and a half. 

Cotterill WILL be given January to make changes, he's done wonders for us and one bad transfer window is the reason we are struggling, the blame does not lie solely with the manager for players coming to Bristol City.

I'm sorry if you have lost faith in our manager already but slating him online isn't going to change the boards mind. Cotterill will stay and will be given January and it's time everyone accepted that. The team and the manager both deserve the whole of Ashton Gates support, we may not even be in the championship right now if it wasn't for the appointment of Steve Cotterill.  

 

Whilst I support your position on backing SC; how can you possibly know how SL & the board are going to act ?

[reddogkev]

Unless you've had a chat with SL, then how do you know what the great man is going to do?  You're guessing that SL won't sack him based on an incredible year last season.

IF we took another Rotherham type defeat at Huddersfield, I am convinced SC would be sacked.

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Unless you've had a chat with SL, then how do you know what the great man is going to do?  You're guessing that SL won't sack him based on an incredible year last season.

IF we took another Rotherham type defeat at Huddersfield, I am convinced SC would be sacked.

Spot on I think. A bad loss at Huddersfield and I think that'll be it. For better or for worse I reckon that's what'll happen.

[YorkshireSection]

3 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Unless you've had a chat with SL, then how do you know what the great man is going to do?  You're guessing that SL won't sack him based on an incredible year last season.

IF we took another Rotherham type defeat at Huddersfield, I am convinced SC would be sacked.

I'd love to agree, however the blind faith shown previously in GJ , coupled with the SL interest in rugby makes me doubt that SC will anywhere the dole queue.

[BarnzFM]

9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Leave a letter on his seat before he gets there.  Stops any aggro

[BarnzFM]

Wrong Fred 

[shelts]

Owe Steve nowt. Last year is gone. No loyalty in football if we lose our next two he is gone. We still have a chance of staying up with or without him. Unfortunately our small squad and manager have been found out which is a shame. A problem between Cotts and the board, surely pre season tells us that. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

6 minutes ago, shelts said:

Owe Steve nowt. Last year is gone. No loyalty in football if we lose our next two he is gone. We still have a chance of staying up with or without him. Unfortunately our small squad and manager have been found out which is a shame. A problem between Cotts and the board, surely pre season tells us that. 

Really?

So John Pelling and Keith Burt had absolutely nothing to do with pre season problems then?

[shelts]

lack of investment by the board and a manager out of his depth

[Nogbad the Bad]

15 minutes ago, shelts said:

lack of investment by the board and a manager out of his depth

A manager who swam happily enough at this level at  Burnley for 4 seasons.

Lack of investment by the board, as you put it, can hardly be blamed on SC.

 

[shelts]

Different club and a different set of circumstances. Definitely not all his fault. All his experience we should b doing better. No two seasons the same. Hey but we'll have a lovely stadium in league one. Ffs. 

[redfieldred]

2 hours ago, Redstoke said:

Has certainly not done 'wonders' this season with 3 wins in 19 games. He Is a good league 1/2 manager as he has proven in the past. Out of his depth at this level im afraid, Am still waiting for him to prove me wrong but dont think hes going to. To not sub Baker at half time when everyone knew he was gonna get sent off finally confirmed it for me. He simply aint up to it.

Doesn't matter what you think. Landsdown will stick with him. Rightly so as well. Short termism isn't the answer. I remember ward being sacked too early in 98/99 debacle of a season. Don't want a repeat of that. We are a better side than that one, 

[jambodinho]

I'm fairly sure there was a video interview with SL in the summer. Possibly in the garden's of one of his massive homes somewhere. He said that he has learnt that he can't become sentimental and get too attached to players or managers like he has in the past. If he thinks cotts has to go, he'll go. 

[ChippenhamRed]

9 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

But Steve Lansdown is not going to sack the man who took us from bottom of league one to the championship in a season and a half. 

Cotterill WILL be given January to make changes, he's done wonders for us and one bad transfer window is the reason we are struggling, the blame does not lie solely with the manager for players coming to Bristol City.

I'm sorry if you have lost faith in our manager already but slating him online isn't going to change the boards mind. Cotterill will stay and will be given January and it's time everyone accepted that. The team and the manager both deserve the whole of Ashton Gates support, we may not even be in the championship right now if it wasn't for the appointment of Steve Cotterill.  

 

You have no idea what Lansdown and the board are thinking any more than the rest of us do, and to  somehow think you know better with your smug "sorry to break it to you" title treats us all as if we are stupid.

And can we please stop talking about last season as if Cotterill did it out of the kindness of his heart, he was paid handsomely to do a job and did it well. We owe him nothing and we cannot compromise the future of the club on loyalty to any individual.

[054123]

9 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

But Steve Lansdown is not going to sack the man who took us from bottom of league one to the championship in a season and a half. 

Cotterill WILL be given January to make changes, he's done wonders for us and one bad transfer window is the reason we are struggling, the blame does not lie solely with the manager for players coming to Bristol City.

I'm sorry if you have lost faith in our manager already but slating him online isn't going to change the boards mind. Cotterill will stay and will be given January and it's time everyone accepted that. The team and the manager both deserve the whole of Ashton Gates support, we may not even be in the championship right now if it wasn't for the appointment of Steve Cotterill.  

 

I accept it.

I've come to accept a lot of things this year.

The difference between dreams and ambitions has been the most educational of them.

[KeepUpLino]

6 hours ago, redfieldred said:

Doesn't matter what you think. Landsdown will stick with him. Rightly so as well. Short termism isn't the answer. I remember ward being sacked too early in 98/99 debacle of a season. Don't want a repeat of that. We are a better side than that one, 

Blind faith is just as bad as pressing the button to early..

 I think he's done well to keep his job this long..

[I am the mole]

6 hours ago, redfieldred said:

Doesn't matter what you think. Landsdown will stick with him. Rightly so as well. Short termism isn't the answer. I remember ward being sacked too early in 98/99 debacle of a season. Don't want a repeat of that. We are a better side than that one, 

Ward came out and said he had no idea what to do to turn it round so had to be sacked and benny did a job we was not brought here to do and did it quite well I thought and may have kept us up if he had longer!!

[Fodbarmyarmy]

I really don't know where I stand brothers and sisters......

On the one hand  , I have seen the team show they can compete at this level, and possibly move on, given time and with the addition to the squad of quality in the right areas and that is down to the management...

On the other,  I have seen an inability to change tactics to suit certain opposition , or adapt to situations in games, which is probably down to the lack of options in the squad due to its size.....and that is down to the management .....

I have no idea how to run a football club, I leave that to those who have , but as a supporter for 40+ years I hope to see those who do know learn from past errors. ...time will tell....

[famouslastword]

9 hours ago, Redstoke said:

Has certainly not done 'wonders' this season with 3 wins in 19 games. He Is a good league 1/2 manager as he has proven in the past. Out of his depth at this level im afraid, Am still waiting for him to prove me wrong but dont think hes going to. To not sub Baker at half time when everyone knew he was gonna get sent off finally confirmed it for me. He simply aint up to it.

What a ridiculous statement.... So from your suggestion we should sub off any player on a yellow card? The level of stupidity from some fans is laughable! The only person to blame for that mistake is baker. Silly challenges in non threatening areas. 

[LondonBristolian]

I'd always argue to keep manager so long as I believed they were working to turn things around and had ideas on how to do so. However with Cotts now, it just feels like trying the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.  He doesn't seem to be learning from mistakes and for me that makes his position untenable. 

 

Yes - he did brilliantly last season (though even then, if there was a question mark, it was our results against the top six in the division) but sadly clubs that succeed realise sentiment can't have a place in football. Do any Southampton fans regret sacking Adkins in their first season of the premier league? Do any Palace fans wish Holloway stayed on after getting them a shock promotion to the premier league? Cotterill was the man for the job last season and deserves our eternal thanks. But that doesn't entitle him to a job for life. The paradox for me is the people blaming the players and saying "Cotts has put his trust in the players from last season but they've not stepped up. Now they've shown they're not good enough for his level so Cotts should have January to replace them." But giving SC January would be a massive risk and surely what applies to the players applies to the manager too?

 

With SOD, SL acted earlier than many of us would have and he was undoubtedly proved right. And he had clearly learned from what had happened with McInnes where we persevered with him too long in the hope he could recapture the form from the previous season. When we finally acted it was too late. There are no excuses for that to be repeated. Especially as we're in a run of winnable fixture and failing to win them.

Cotterill was superb last season but unless he can show in the next two games that he has new ideas and can turn things around, he should be spending Christmas with the family and a new man should be in place for the January transfer window.

[lenred]

31 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd always argue to keep manager so long as I believed they were working to turn things around and had ideas on how to do so. However with Cotts now, it just feels like trying the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.  He doesn't seem to be learning from mistakes and for me that makes his position untenable. 

 

Yes - he did brilliantly last season (though even then, if there was a question mark, it was our results against the top six in the division) but sadly clubs that succeed realise sentiment can't have a place in football. Do any Southampton fans regret sacking Adkins in their first season of the premier league? Do any Palace fans wish Holloway stayed on after getting them a shock promotion to the premier league? Cotterill was the man for the job last season and deserves our eternal thanks. But that doesn't entitle him to a job for life. The paradox for me is the people blaming the players and saying "Cotts has put his trust in the players from last season but they've not stepped up. Now they've shown they're not good enough for his level so Cotts should have January to replace them." But giving SC January would be a massive risk and surely what applies to the players applies to the manager too?

 

With SOD, SL acted earlier than many of us would have and he was undoubtedly proved right. And he had clearly learned from what had happened with McInnes where we persevered with him too long in the hope he could recapture the form from the previous season. When we finally acted it was too late. There are no excuses for that to be repeated. Especially as we're in a run of winnable fixture and failing to win them.

Cotterill was superb last season but unless he can show in the next two games that he has new ideas and can turn things around, he should be spending Christmas with the family and a new man should be in place for the January transfer window.

Great post, sums it up very very well. The point about Adkins and Hollowhead rings especially true, there's just no place for sentiment anymore if you want to be successful, but especially not here this season, with all the investment that's gone into the club. Would absolutely love us to win the next two games and for us to go on a run that sees us in relative safety and SC keeping his job, it would be fantastic but I just can't see it. I hope that I'm wrong.  

[Robbored]

Like all decent managers Cotterill only wanted to bring in new signings that would strengthen the squad. Common sense and quite right to.

Problem last summer was none of the identified players on SC shopping list wanted to come to AG largely because City are a newly promoted club and not established in the Championship.

The board could have thrown money at the transfer window but ended up with players no better than City already have. Not a sensible policy most would agree.

So....it wasn't ineptitude on the part of the board, KB or Cotterill, it was simply the way the transfer market was. 

I doubt we'll see much activity in the January window either given City's league position.

[ChippenhamRed]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Problem last summer was none of the identified players on SC shopping list wanted to come to AG largely because City are a newly promoted club and not established in the Championship.

The board could have thrown money at the transfer window but ended up with players no better than City already have. Not a sensible policy most would agree.

So....it wasn't ineptitude on the part of the board, KB or Cotterill, it was simply the way the transfer market was. 

I doubt we'll see much activity in the January window either given City's league position.

I hear this "we must only buy players better than we already have" mantra a lot. It makes a lot of sense. But it also seems to mean that, if you fail to land those superior players, you end up with a tiny squad with a lack of competition for places and inferior players on the substitutes bench.

Whilst aiming for better players, maybe we should also have bought some who were about the same standard as the ones we have (and therefore more easily attainable and affordable) to at least challenge those already in the team, provide options, or provide adequate cover in the case of injury. That doesn't mean bulking out the squad with dross; just a few more modest additions with the ability to compete for a place in the side. All the better if they are young players with the potential to improve and grow in value.

Not ideal, not progressive, I know, but better than the situation we find ourselves in now. It's also not a way to get promoted - but it might help you survive. Our policy of only buying better players has left us desperately lacking options of any kind.

[Robbored]

Good points CR but obviously none of those in positions at AG to influence he transfer policy could see that. I'm sure that's if Cotterill was asked about it he'd refer to the loan market....

[aa_bcfc]

8 hours ago, shelts said:

Different club and a different set of circumstances. Definitely not all his fault. All his experience we should b doing better. No two seasons the same. Hey but we'll have a lovely stadium in league one. Ffs. 

So not out of his depth then?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, famouslastword said:

What a ridiculous statement.... So from your suggestion we should sub off any player on a yellow card? The level of stupidity from some fans is laughable! The only person to blame for that mistake is baker. Silly challenges in non threatening areas. 

Of course the player must take responsibility, but this was an accident waiting to happen.  The referee had made it clear that one more poor tackle and he was off, and in the central defender's position there is always a possibility that he would have to make another challenge that he might not get right.  We had another central defender on the bench.  Better to play for 45 minute with him on for Baker than with ten men.  No, of course you would not sub anyone with a yellow card, but managers do accept that at times a yellow-carded player needs to be subbed for his own sake and/or for the team's, and I can't think of many cases that justify it more than this.  Lambert got it spot on when he pulled his player off later in the game.

As to the wider debate about Cotterill, for me it is relatively simple. I doubt there is a City fan who now has any great confidence that we can avoid relegation with the current squad.  At best it will be touch and go, but the balance is beginning to tip against us.  So it seems to me that only three things can possibly save us:

1.  Buying or borrowing players in January who will add sufficient quality to the squad

2.  Cotterill having the ability to get the present squad to raise its game sufficiently to start winning games consistently.

3.  A change of manager.

The fiasco in the summer, in early season and since, with most loan players turning out to be of little value to us, suggests that 1.  is unlikely.  Can Cotterill discover a commanding centre-forward in January?  Can he unearth a Matt Smith type player presently out of favour somewhere else?  Can he find an experienced midfield play-maker?  I haven't heard any names mentioned yet, and these days January is not a good time to be reassembling your squad.  The bargains are rarely out there, and we will only get the quality we need by spending significant money and being able to persuade quality players to join a failing squad.

I've seen nothing so far to suggest that Cotterill can turn things around with the present squad.  I'm afraid he has revealed himself to be tactically inept on several occasions, and he simply seems unable to motivate the players at the moment.  Will this change?  Who knows, but the signs are not at all good.

Which leaves 3.

We are back where we were in SOD's time, when it was hard to see where the next win was coming from.  I'm afraid I've come to the conclusion that if we stick with Cotterill then the likely outcome is that we will be relegated.  That might not bother Lansdown or Burt, but it might be helpful if someone from the club would make a statement that outlined where the club is going at the moment.

[WTFiGO!?!]

With respect, I'm finding it difficult to buy into the simplicity here.

Sacking managers proved a successful medium/long term ploy in the cases of Tinnion and O'Driscoll only, both in league 1.

There was a bodge job in the Summer, SL has said that they were unprepared for the wage demands in the current Championship.  This suggests naivety throughout, not just at the hands of Steve Cotterill.  Preston and MK Dons had the same problems attracting players.  Sacking SC will not solve this problem.

'No plan B' is a result of the limitations of the squad, a problem we will still have under a new manager.

On field leadership, Championship experience and quality is what we need more of, not a new manager.