Nomad Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: You forgot Brentford, Rotherham and Fulham too. And Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: He sounds and looks a broken man. He wears his heart on his sleeve and probably doesn't believe in himself anymore. Steve Landsown did say he needs support as much as everyone else does, just because he is a cocky sod doesn't mean he's not human. Too true , the problem is that managers can't drop themselves for a game or two to recuperate. Cotterill , i'm convinced , has given absolutely all he has to this club and i thank him very since rely for his diligence . This , IMHO, is where the club have fallen down . No human being can do all that this old style of manager does for any length of time . Burn out is inévitable . We accepted Cott's demands to be ' manager ' not ' coach ' and now i believe that results are suffering because of this . The club should have stuck to their guns and not given in like a doe eyed virgin . Before anyone says " Yes but Cotts got us promoted " if we go down again we've not progressed and if Cotts was just Coach and not responsible for every thing at the club down to the brand of tea in the canteen perhaps he'd still have his mojo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Nomad said: And Reading. And Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: Too true , the problem is that managers can't drop themselves for a game or two to recuperate. Cotterill , i'm convinced , has given absolutely all he has to this club and i thank him very since rely for his diligence . This , IMHO, is where the club have fallen down . No human being can do all that this old style of manager does for any length of time . Burn out is inévitable . We accepted Cott's demands to be ' manager ' not ' coach ' and now i believe that results are suffering because of this . The club should have stuck to their guns and not given in like a doe eyed virgin . Before anyone says " Yes but Cotts got us promoted " if we go down again we've not progressed and if Cotts was just Coach and not responsible for every thing at the club down to the brand of tea in the canteen perhaps he'd still have his mojo ! I did wonder if anyone knew his wife and could have a word? She might be able to talk some sense into him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Slave to the rhythm said: And Blackburn. And Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 21 minutes ago, Robin1988 said: It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Lansdown was right . IMHO Cotts is wrong . Look at what Ranieri is currently saying at Leicester , he acknowledges the gulf in class between his club and the bigger more established clubs but talks of ' fighting ' . There's a difference . Cott's incoherence is not working . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 54 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if fans keep publicly bleating about them not being good enough. Constant negative comments from supporters (?) can drain anybodies morale so god knows what it must do the the players. With a couple of small changes your post can refer to fans and Ashton Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 16 minutes ago, WTMS said: With a couple of small changes your post can refer to fans and Ashton Gate. I agree to an extent but i'm sure the manager has more clout . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Cotts has surprised me a couple of times with his public utterances about the team/players 'not being good enough'. Think he said it at the start of the season and after the Derby match. Odd approach to motivation which, clearly, has failed. Still behind him but, boy, does he need to massively raise his game.... and quick. Transfer/loans shambles, subs and tactics, 'motivation' all negatives at present as demonstrated by results and league position. A real 'winner' is a fighter who defies the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I agree to an extent but i'm sure the manager has more clout . You choose how you support the team. Nobody else. Fans can opt for we are all in this together ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've eveAgreed.n crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . I agree.All SC talks about is protecting the squad and how fond he is of them when in reality they need to be challenged and read the riot act it some cases.How can this be the preparation for the fight of our lives to stay in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Three Lions said: I think it is being suggested that Steve Cotterills team talks consist of him telling players they are not good enough and that they are only division one standard. Yeah righto!!!! No it is n't . It's being plainly spelt out that he's publicly saying our lads are n't good enough . Does that help you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Anybody trying to turn this into a positive thread about supporting the team. Do not have it. Throw the happy clapper card at them. KEEP THE PSYCHOLOGY NEGATIVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, hortonred said: I agree.All SC talks about is protecting the squad and how fond he is of them when in reality they need to be challenged and read the riot act it some cases.How can this be the preparation for the fight of our lives to stay in this division. After the Reading game the players were kept in for two hours as the Manager did just that. How is this known? People who were going to meet the players had to wait outside. Keeping what is said in private, away from the media and scrutiny of those like this forum cab be looked upon as basic professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said: I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if the manager keeps publicly bleating about them not being good enough. His comments drain my morale so god knows what it must do the his "group of players". In the 'real world' I would agree with you, but these are footballers. Whilst some have lost that streak (and I'm not suggesting our own), most should be considered amongst the most determined personalities for them to even make it this far in the game. Most of our players have been told they aren't good enough before; plenty have been released or sold from Prem academies, but they've put it behind them and forged their way back to a very high level when you consider how widely the game is played. I do not believe our players or footballers are really that precious and I believe they probably would have the personality trait of 'I'll show you' rather than being shrinking violets. Sure there are exceptions and sure there will be players who buy in to their own hype (particularly once they've picked up their first few paycheques), but I don't think we have bad eggs. Above everything else though, if there is consensus that psychology plays such a big part - and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular - read otib or listen to groans in the ground and tell me what a significant number of fans are doing different to Cotts?! A bit disingenuous to slag off the manager when the fans are doing so with much more vitriol and in an equally very public manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 87 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Robin1988 said: It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Mourinho was brilliant at this, especially during his first spell as Chelsea manager. It was always about him, when Chelsea lost it would be some wild accusations at the ref or some other story to deflect attention away from the players and therefore the pressure away from the players. Unfortunately for him he fell on his own sword by taking things too far with the Medic this time around which ultimately proved his downfall. As has been mentioned here previously, those who think that the media get the same message as the players need a reality check. The players and manager / coaching staff spend more time with each other than they will with their families on average and all they will be doing is preparing on how they can beat the next opposition, not sat around feeling sorry for themselves because they aren't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robson Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said: The psychology has been wrong all year. Since we beat Walsall 8-1 it has been downhill. Say what you want about the performances, this championship experience started awfully before we kicked a ball. The fans knew it, the manager knew it and the players knew it. That first game against Brentord when we went 1 up and our knew signing scored his first was the best it had been all year. From that Freeman red card on, awful. The psychology has been wrong all year. It all started in the summer. Even before the Freeman red the fans knew we were short handed. Talk was small squad is a risk with injury and suspension. Our fears confirmed first home game. Think everyone sensed it We beat Walsall 8-2. First game was against Sheffield Wednesday away. Fair points, but I thought our performances in some games have been outstanding. Just lacking that killer pass and clinical finish. As the results weren't coming the heads started dropping. Think will change once we sign some players/player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 23 minutes ago, Claude said: We beat Walsall 8-2. First game was against Sheffield Wednesday away. Fair points, but I thought our performances in some games have been outstanding. Just lacking that killer pass and clinical finish. As the results weren't coming the heads started dropping. Think will change once we sign some players/player. There have been some lovely performances but it almost feels like something is holding them back. From the first time I saw them come out of the tunnel this season they didn't look the same. They didn't look as happy or joyful. I hope you're right though. Hope we get a new face or two and the mood picks up. I'm sure the crowd would get more optimistic and maybe it'll kick start a run to get us mid table. The league certainly isn't dominant and anyone could go on a run. Just need the confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: There have been some lovely performances but it almost feels like something is holding them back. From the first time I saw them come out of the tunnel this season they didn't look the same. They didn't look as happy or joyful. I hope you're right though. Hope we get a new face or two and the mood picks up. I'm sure the crowd would get more optimistic and maybe it'll kick start a run to get us mid table. The league certainly isn't dominant and anyone could go on a run. Just need the confidence. A bit like when Coppell joined us. That first match and he slinked out of the tunnel, I knew something was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayteomike2 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 you can also ask why at the moment out of the promoted clubs we are in the worst position on and off the field how is the ground improvement taken up the time of directors and I know people will say there are different budgets but look at the majority of the teams that have ground improvements have a dip in form for a few years although there are exceptions arsenal and man city come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, 29AR said: In the 'real world' I would agree with you, but these are footballers. Whilst some have lost that streak (and I'm not suggesting our own), most should be considered amongst the most determined personalities for them to even make it this far in the game. Most of our players have been told they aren't good enough before; plenty have been released or sold from Prem academies, but they've put it behind them and forged their way back to a very high level when you consider how widely the game is played. I do not believe our players or footballers are really that precious and I believe they probably would have the personality trait of 'I'll show you' rather than being shrinking violets. Sure there are exceptions and sure there will be players who buy in to their own hype (particularly once they've picked up their first few paycheques), but I don't think we have bad eggs. Above everything else though, if there is consensus that psychology plays such a big part - and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular - read otib or listen to groans in the ground and tell me what a significant number of fans are doing different to Cotts?! A bit disingenuous to slag off the manager when the fans are doing so with much more vitriol and in an equally very public manner. All fair points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 No major what the Manager says in public and in the dressing room are very different things. You do not know what Steve Cotterill says to the players at all but are stating he has got it t wrong. Steve Cotterill will get coated off by many no matter what he says. Fans want the bloke to fall on his arse now.. Fans are having a pop a the Manager and players but actually know nada of what is going on in that dressing room. So no other does not help. Slagging players off and the Manager on a forum or at the ground is hardly support and will not help. Why not put that energy into getting behind the team lads???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Three Lions said: No major what the Manager says in public and in the dressing room are very different things. You do not know what Steve Cotterill says to the players at all but are stating he has got it t wrong. Steve Cotterill will get coated off by many no matter what he says. Fans want the bloke to fall on his arse now.. Fans are having a pop a the Manager and players but actually know nada of what is going on in that dressing room. So no other does not help. Slagging players off and the Manager on a forum or at the ground is hardly support and will not help. Why not put that energy into getting behind the team lads???? Who is saying what Cotts says in the dressing room ? All i'm saying is that publicly stating that these top lads are not ' good enough ' is bad psychology and not conducive to better performances on the pitch because the players have a ready made excuse for losing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Lansdown was right . IMHO Cotts is wrong . Look at what Ranieri is currently saying at Leicester , he acknowledges the gulf in class between his club and the bigger more established clubs but talks of ' fighting ' . There's a difference . Cott's incoherence is not working . What's Lansdown got do with you missing out on his public and private personas? Look at what Cotterill said before Huddersfield. 'Be brave', 'take risks'. Ranieri can't say anything wrong, they're going to be on cloud nine until the end of the season. Do you think in private Cotterill tells his players not to fight? It might seem incoherent to you but it's not difficult for most people to get their head around. Whether or not he can actually give them the fight is a very different argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Seriously major you are giving it the big he's got it wrong with not even close to half the picture. Doubt Steve Cotterill is there in training asking for less intensity and loads of touches on the ball because lads you ain't got the quality. Bloke got it 100 per cent right last season and now he is a clueless idiot !!! Bloke has been in the game all his life v the rest of us who played Sunday league. Bit of credit and respect is due and a lot more support of the team we are supposed to support would be of far more use than yet another negative thread to add to the rest. Too many with a passion for moaning v supporting. Get behind the team whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 30, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, shelts said: The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Totally agree with you on this, you only have to look at the numbers going to Reading and WBA to see that many are behind the team One thing that is for sure, is that 10+ years ago the crowd would have definately turned on the players and manager within the ground by now. The vibe I get is more from frustration than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Six seven thousand used to make more nose than this AG 2015. The psychology is wrong. There have been car cashes due to the speed of people racing home to gnash and gnarl about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 31 minutes ago, phantom said: One thing that is for sure, is that 10+ years ago the crowd would have definately turned on the players and manager within the ground by now. It's a different situation though, last time we were heading out the trap door of this league it was because we had a disjointed team who weren't busting a gut for the club and didn't really have any affinity to it. This year we're not failing for the want of trying to be our best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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