Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatersfloater Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Funnily enough I was thinking the same myself I was wondering if we were entering the (I can't do anymore than I'm doing phase) Bit dangerous that really I really hope we can get a few new faces in and turn it around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted December 30, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 agree with the both of you - sadly following in footsteps of Johnson's demise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjia 22 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Another thing I have noticed this season compared to last is that when we concede early on all the players seem to just collapse as if we have lost a 2-0 lead in stoppage time and show no signs on belief. Last season not that we went 1-0 down early but when we did, everyone got each other going on the pitch and stands, we'd sprint the ball back to the centre circle to start straight away and hit back. This season it looks like when we concede they have no belief of pulling it back which is not what you want no matter the situation, have got to back ourselves to get back in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 But a couple or three newcomers will not be able to help if the rest of the squad are still "believing that they are not good enough", will not help us to get out of trouble. Jack Charlton once said a long time ago that a manager had a four year cycle at a football club. Year One: sort out the squad and tactics. Year Two: improved performances leading to a big increase in the squad's confidence. Year Three: the most successful year with either promotion or winning a Cup Final. Year Four: the year of dips in confidence and performance when it becomes apparent that new blood and ideas are needed at managerial and playing level. This four year cycle now in football in general, appears to be condensed into a two, maybe two and a half, year length. Managers at all clubs who start with a three year contract, rarely surviving to the end of that period. So, with Cotterill making such public statements, is it time for a new broom? It's unlikely because of finances that we will be able to recruit a " better" manager but in my opinion we need to replace him to allow a different approach in tactics and to stimulate the squad which now looks so short on confidence that one wonders where or when, the next win will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 11 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The club uses à psychologist ! Then sack that **** as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, cidered abroad said: But a couple or three newcomers will not be able to help if the rest of the squad are still "believing that they are not good enough", will not help us to get out of trouble. Jack Charlton once said a long time ago that a manager had a four year cycle at a football club. Year One: sort out the squad and tactics. Year Two: improved performances leading to a big increase in the squad's confidence. Year Three: the most successful year with either promotion or winning a Cup Final. Year Four: the year of dips in confidence and performance when it becomes apparent that new blood and ideas are needed at managerial and playing level. This four year cycle now in football in general, appears to be condensed into a two, maybe two and a half, year length. Managers at all clubs who start with a three year contract, rarely surviving to the end of that period. So, with Cotterill making such public statements, is it time for a new broom? It's unlikely because of finances that we will be able to recruit a " better" manager but in my opinion we need to replace him to allow a different approach in tactics and to stimulate the squad which now looks so short on confidence that one wonders where or when, the next win will occur. CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Some of Cott's quotes have reminded me of John Wards (could have been a resignation letter) in a similar position some years ago. When he came out and said 'I don't know what else I can try', or words of that effect, he may have well have been saying 'I'm off then!' I really hope we have an early, and very good transfer window or Cott's and indeed the team will be going the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Kodjia 22 said: Another thing I have noticed this season compared to last is that when we concede early on all the players seem to just collapse as if we have lost a 2-0 lead in stoppage time and show no signs on belief. Last season not that we went 1-0 down early but when we did, everyone got each other going on the pitch and stands, we'd sprint the ball back to the centre circle to start straight away and hit back. This season it looks like when we concede they have no belief of pulling it back which is not what you want no matter the situation, have got to back ourselves to get back in it. The main reason for this, we are playing against far better teams this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redysteadygo1 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! One of the problems with this approach is that for those two years you tend not to be committed or except resposibility as you are soon off somewhere else. Not sure this would apply to footballers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 For me, the psychology of the whole club just feels a million miles away from last season - fans included. Judging Saturday's match as a complete one off, as it was my first Ashton Gate visit since April, I was amazed how quickly the groans came out when any player tried and failed to do anything other than getting around the outside and bunging a cross into the box. Luke Freeman, in particular, while not having a great game was castigated every time he attempted to do something a bit out of the ordinary - his attempted dummy inside the box in the second half when he might've shot, for example. It's all just a massive viscous circle. To me, we looked a team absolutely trying its bollocks off but completely shot of confidence and belief, playing in a negative environment also completely shot of confidence and belief. I just hope we can scab our way to survival and all hit the reset button for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! Well, you were an Officer in the RAF? I'd love to hear all your tales, very fascinating, perhaps if you'd care to divulge further you could start a thread in the non footie section (I appreciate you might not want to do this though, so no bother)! I agree with everything in this thread, and I'd even say that Wenger at Arsenal could've been replaced during his barren years and Arsenal may have collected more trophies and perhaps won the league again. Everyone manager needs a fresh start once in a while to stop things going stale, or the alternative is massive squad transformation, in the same vein to Fergie at Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjia 22 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: The main reason for this, we are playing against far better teams this season. What so playing better teams means you should drop your heads after the first goes in? Arguably our best performances have come against the better teams, beating Middlesboro, point against Hull at home, I know we lost, but played well at Brighton, the 0-0 at Cardiff we were the better team. Yes, I know that we got beaten 4-0 away by Derby and Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 40 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . What he says to the players and what he puts out on the radio are very different. The transfer window is about to open and the games have begun. He's publicly making a point that we need to strengthen, quite a lot. No too different to Lansdown recently saying that he thought we were good enough and only need to strengthen a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 45 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . It's all sounding a bit Wardesque. A flummoxed manager ain't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes Major the club like most if not all uses psychologists. Physiology is also part of coaching modules which no doubt those who berate players for being called Johnson or Skuse and now Pack have as qualifications. A thought that physiologist share is that supportive environments do improve performance. The team could benefit from a bit of what fans are attempting in the Atyeo being more widespread. Bristol City FC does not benefit from the countless threads on Otib seeking to undermine and ridicule Steve Cotterill, Steve Lansdown and players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, reddogkev said: Well, you were an Officer in the RAF? I'd love to hear all your tales, very fascinating, perhaps if you'd care to divulge further you could start a thread in the non footie section (I appreciate you might not want to do this though, so no bother)! I agree with everything in this thread, and I'd even say that Wenger at Arsenal could've been replaced during his barren years and Arsenal may have collected more trophies and perhaps won the league again. Everyone manager needs a fresh start once in a while to stop things going stale, or the alternative is massive squad transformation, in the same vein to Fergie at Man Utd. Kev, sadly to say I was an Engineer when I was an Airman, a job that took me to Akrotiri in Cyprus but then became a 'boring' Admin Officer after 'failing' the exam for Air Traffic Controller by one mark ( like being relegated on goal difference!) Would have much preferred NCO Aircrew but was failed medically due to the Bristol problem (sinusitus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if the manager keeps publicly bleating about them not being good enough. His comments drain my morale so god knows what it must do the his "group of players". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 The psychology has been wrong all year. Since we beat Walsall 8-1 it has been downhill. Say what you want about the performances, this championship experience started awfully before we kicked a ball. The fans knew it, the manager knew it and the players knew it. That first game against Brentord when we went 1 up and our knew signing scored his first was the best it had been all year. From that Freeman red card on, awful. The psychology has been wrong all year. It all started in the summer. Even before the Freeman red the fans knew we were short handed. Talk was small squad is a risk with injury and suspension. Our fears confirmed first home game. Think everyone sensed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I think it is being suggested that Steve Cotterills team talks consist of him telling players they are not good enough and that they are only division one standard. Yeah righto!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 To be fair, Cotts does big-up his players as much as possible. So much so that we have all commented on him being 'blind' to their failings. He has stated that we have dominated games, out-played the opposition and that they are a fantastic bunch of lads. He has blamed the ref, the pitch, everything, and I guess this is to keep their morale up as much as ours. He will say stuff in private but the players also have to deal with what he says publicly. Some people might even repeat what is said on here to the players? But at the moment I guess he has run out of things to say…he could do a Fergie and pretend to be in a strop with the media people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 11 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said: What he says to the players and what he puts out on the radio are very different. The transfer window is about to open and the games have begun. He's publicly making a point that we need to strengthen, quite a lot. No too different to Lansdown recently saying that he thought we were good enough and only need to strengthen a bit. So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . He sounds and looks a broken man. He wears his heart on his sleeve and probably doesn't believe in himself anymore. Steve Landsown did say he needs support as much as everyone else does, just because he is a cocky sod doesn't mean he's not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 20 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: Kev, sadly to say I was an Engineer when I was an Airman, a job that took me to Akrotiri in Cyprus but then became a 'boring' Admin Officer after 'failing' the exam for Air Traffic Controller by one mark ( like being relegated on goal difference!) Would have much preferred NCO Aircrew but was failed medically due to the Bristol problem (sinusitus) Suffice to say, I bet you still had a damn good time and could still regale us with many tales! Nothing would ever run properly or be shipshape without the expertise of the Admin Officers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm pretty sure Steve Cotterill speaks to his players pretty much every single day and doesn't just feed them 2 minute sound bites of clips on radio Bristol or awful articles from the evening post as many on here seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I bet the players know that as long as don't have to play Derby and Burnley every week, then they are capable of holding their own (just) in this very tough league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, reddogkev said: I bet the players know that as long as don't have to play Derby and Burnley every week, then they are capable of holding their own (just) in this very tough league. You forgot Brentford, Rotherham and Fulham too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . I don't see how dropping hints about what he wants in the transfer window necessarily has a negative affect on morale. You could argue the thought of new players coming in might encourage the current lot to work even harder. I think we need to strengthen quite a lot. We're playing with 2 loan signings every week (including possible our best defender) and it's still nowhere near good enough. Add to that a striker that can finish, an experienced midfielder, a goalkeeper and something worth having on the bench and I'd say that's more than a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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