Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatersfloater Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Funnily enough I was thinking the same myself I was wondering if we were entering the (I can't do anymore than I'm doing phase) Bit dangerous that really I really hope we can get a few new faces in and turn it around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Phantom Posted December 30, 2015 Admin Share Posted December 30, 2015 agree with the both of you - sadly following in footsteps of Johnson's demise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjia 22 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Another thing I have noticed this season compared to last is that when we concede early on all the players seem to just collapse as if we have lost a 2-0 lead in stoppage time and show no signs on belief. Last season not that we went 1-0 down early but when we did, everyone got each other going on the pitch and stands, we'd sprint the ball back to the centre circle to start straight away and hit back. This season it looks like when we concede they have no belief of pulling it back which is not what you want no matter the situation, have got to back ourselves to get back in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 But a couple or three newcomers will not be able to help if the rest of the squad are still "believing that they are not good enough", will not help us to get out of trouble. Jack Charlton once said a long time ago that a manager had a four year cycle at a football club. Year One: sort out the squad and tactics. Year Two: improved performances leading to a big increase in the squad's confidence. Year Three: the most successful year with either promotion or winning a Cup Final. Year Four: the year of dips in confidence and performance when it becomes apparent that new blood and ideas are needed at managerial and playing level. This four year cycle now in football in general, appears to be condensed into a two, maybe two and a half, year length. Managers at all clubs who start with a three year contract, rarely surviving to the end of that period. So, with Cotterill making such public statements, is it time for a new broom? It's unlikely because of finances that we will be able to recruit a " better" manager but in my opinion we need to replace him to allow a different approach in tactics and to stimulate the squad which now looks so short on confidence that one wonders where or when, the next win will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 11 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The club uses à psychologist ! Then sack that **** as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, cidered abroad said: But a couple or three newcomers will not be able to help if the rest of the squad are still "believing that they are not good enough", will not help us to get out of trouble. Jack Charlton once said a long time ago that a manager had a four year cycle at a football club. Year One: sort out the squad and tactics. Year Two: improved performances leading to a big increase in the squad's confidence. Year Three: the most successful year with either promotion or winning a Cup Final. Year Four: the year of dips in confidence and performance when it becomes apparent that new blood and ideas are needed at managerial and playing level. This four year cycle now in football in general, appears to be condensed into a two, maybe two and a half, year length. Managers at all clubs who start with a three year contract, rarely surviving to the end of that period. So, with Cotterill making such public statements, is it time for a new broom? It's unlikely because of finances that we will be able to recruit a " better" manager but in my opinion we need to replace him to allow a different approach in tactics and to stimulate the squad which now looks so short on confidence that one wonders where or when, the next win will occur. CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Some of Cott's quotes have reminded me of John Wards (could have been a resignation letter) in a similar position some years ago. When he came out and said 'I don't know what else I can try', or words of that effect, he may have well have been saying 'I'm off then!' I really hope we have an early, and very good transfer window or Cott's and indeed the team will be going the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Kodjia 22 said: Another thing I have noticed this season compared to last is that when we concede early on all the players seem to just collapse as if we have lost a 2-0 lead in stoppage time and show no signs on belief. Last season not that we went 1-0 down early but when we did, everyone got each other going on the pitch and stands, we'd sprint the ball back to the centre circle to start straight away and hit back. This season it looks like when we concede they have no belief of pulling it back which is not what you want no matter the situation, have got to back ourselves to get back in it. The main reason for this, we are playing against far better teams this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redysteadygo1 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! One of the problems with this approach is that for those two years you tend not to be committed or except resposibility as you are soon off somewhere else. Not sure this would apply to footballers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 For me, the psychology of the whole club just feels a million miles away from last season - fans included. Judging Saturday's match as a complete one off, as it was my first Ashton Gate visit since April, I was amazed how quickly the groans came out when any player tried and failed to do anything other than getting around the outside and bunging a cross into the box. Luke Freeman, in particular, while not having a great game was castigated every time he attempted to do something a bit out of the ordinary - his attempted dummy inside the box in the second half when he might've shot, for example. It's all just a massive viscous circle. To me, we looked a team absolutely trying its bollocks off but completely shot of confidence and belief, playing in a negative environment also completely shot of confidence and belief. I just hope we can scab our way to survival and all hit the reset button for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: CA, I agree with what you said, years ago I was in the RAF and we used to get posted every 2 1/2 or 3 years depending if you were married or not. When I asked about this early in my career ( I was an Airman first and then became an Officer) I was told that after 2 years, you started to become ' stale' in your position and needed to be replaced with 'fresh blood' while you became 'fresh blood' elsewhere. It also stopped familiarisation with your seniors or juniors, sometimes this rule does not work ( ie Wenger at Arsenal) but in the main, a move on suits everyone and although I am 100% behind Cotts, perhaps we should now write another chapter in BCFC history. Just glad I dont have to make the decision !! Well, you were an Officer in the RAF? I'd love to hear all your tales, very fascinating, perhaps if you'd care to divulge further you could start a thread in the non footie section (I appreciate you might not want to do this though, so no bother)! I agree with everything in this thread, and I'd even say that Wenger at Arsenal could've been replaced during his barren years and Arsenal may have collected more trophies and perhaps won the league again. Everyone manager needs a fresh start once in a while to stop things going stale, or the alternative is massive squad transformation, in the same vein to Fergie at Man Utd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjia 22 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: The main reason for this, we are playing against far better teams this season. What so playing better teams means you should drop your heads after the first goes in? Arguably our best performances have come against the better teams, beating Middlesboro, point against Hull at home, I know we lost, but played well at Brighton, the 0-0 at Cardiff we were the better team. Yes, I know that we got beaten 4-0 away by Derby and Burnley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 40 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . What he says to the players and what he puts out on the radio are very different. The transfer window is about to open and the games have begun. He's publicly making a point that we need to strengthen, quite a lot. No too different to Lansdown recently saying that he thought we were good enough and only need to strengthen a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 45 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . It's all sounding a bit Wardesque. A flummoxed manager ain't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes Major the club like most if not all uses psychologists. Physiology is also part of coaching modules which no doubt those who berate players for being called Johnson or Skuse and now Pack have as qualifications. A thought that physiologist share is that supportive environments do improve performance. The team could benefit from a bit of what fans are attempting in the Atyeo being more widespread. Bristol City FC does not benefit from the countless threads on Otib seeking to undermine and ridicule Steve Cotterill, Steve Lansdown and players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, reddogkev said: Well, you were an Officer in the RAF? I'd love to hear all your tales, very fascinating, perhaps if you'd care to divulge further you could start a thread in the non footie section (I appreciate you might not want to do this though, so no bother)! I agree with everything in this thread, and I'd even say that Wenger at Arsenal could've been replaced during his barren years and Arsenal may have collected more trophies and perhaps won the league again. Everyone manager needs a fresh start once in a while to stop things going stale, or the alternative is massive squad transformation, in the same vein to Fergie at Man Utd. Kev, sadly to say I was an Engineer when I was an Airman, a job that took me to Akrotiri in Cyprus but then became a 'boring' Admin Officer after 'failing' the exam for Air Traffic Controller by one mark ( like being relegated on goal difference!) Would have much preferred NCO Aircrew but was failed medically due to the Bristol problem (sinusitus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if the manager keeps publicly bleating about them not being good enough. His comments drain my morale so god knows what it must do the his "group of players". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The psychology has been wrong all year. Since we beat Walsall 8-1 it has been downhill. Say what you want about the performances, this championship experience started awfully before we kicked a ball. The fans knew it, the manager knew it and the players knew it. That first game against Brentord when we went 1 up and our knew signing scored his first was the best it had been all year. From that Freeman red card on, awful. The psychology has been wrong all year. It all started in the summer. Even before the Freeman red the fans knew we were short handed. Talk was small squad is a risk with injury and suspension. Our fears confirmed first home game. Think everyone sensed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip Broadwalk Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I think it is being suggested that Steve Cotterills team talks consist of him telling players they are not good enough and that they are only division one standard. Yeah righto!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 To be fair, Cotts does big-up his players as much as possible. So much so that we have all commented on him being 'blind' to their failings. He has stated that we have dominated games, out-played the opposition and that they are a fantastic bunch of lads. He has blamed the ref, the pitch, everything, and I guess this is to keep their morale up as much as ours. He will say stuff in private but the players also have to deal with what he says publicly. Some people might even repeat what is said on here to the players? But at the moment I guess he has run out of things to say…he could do a Fergie and pretend to be in a strop with the media people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 11 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said: What he says to the players and what he puts out on the radio are very different. The transfer window is about to open and the games have begun. He's publicly making a point that we need to strengthen, quite a lot. No too different to Lansdown recently saying that he thought we were good enough and only need to strengthen a bit. So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . He sounds and looks a broken man. He wears his heart on his sleeve and probably doesn't believe in himself anymore. Steve Landsown did say he needs support as much as everyone else does, just because he is a cocky sod doesn't mean he's not human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've even crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 20 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said: Kev, sadly to say I was an Engineer when I was an Airman, a job that took me to Akrotiri in Cyprus but then became a 'boring' Admin Officer after 'failing' the exam for Air Traffic Controller by one mark ( like being relegated on goal difference!) Would have much preferred NCO Aircrew but was failed medically due to the Bristol problem (sinusitus) Suffice to say, I bet you still had a damn good time and could still regale us with many tales! Nothing would ever run properly or be shipshape without the expertise of the Admin Officers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm pretty sure Steve Cotterill speaks to his players pretty much every single day and doesn't just feed them 2 minute sound bites of clips on radio Bristol or awful articles from the evening post as many on here seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I bet the players know that as long as don't have to play Derby and Burnley every week, then they are capable of holding their own (just) in this very tough league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, reddogkev said: I bet the players know that as long as don't have to play Derby and Burnley every week, then they are capable of holding their own (just) in this very tough league. You forgot Brentford, Rotherham and Fulham too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: So now you're saying that Cotts is incoherent ! How is that good for morale ? Secondly , i agree with Steve Lansdown who says we are good enough but need to strengthen a bit but that is not what Cotterill is saying . I don't see how dropping hints about what he wants in the transfer window necessarily has a negative affect on morale. You could argue the thought of new players coming in might encourage the current lot to work even harder. I think we need to strengthen quite a lot. We're playing with 2 loan signings every week (including possible our best defender) and it's still nowhere near good enough. Add to that a striker that can finish, an experienced midfielder, a goalkeeper and something worth having on the bench and I'd say that's more than a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomad Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: You forgot Brentford, Rotherham and Fulham too. And Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: He sounds and looks a broken man. He wears his heart on his sleeve and probably doesn't believe in himself anymore. Steve Landsown did say he needs support as much as everyone else does, just because he is a cocky sod doesn't mean he's not human. Too true , the problem is that managers can't drop themselves for a game or two to recuperate. Cotterill , i'm convinced , has given absolutely all he has to this club and i thank him very since rely for his diligence . This , IMHO, is where the club have fallen down . No human being can do all that this old style of manager does for any length of time . Burn out is inévitable . We accepted Cott's demands to be ' manager ' not ' coach ' and now i believe that results are suffering because of this . The club should have stuck to their guns and not given in like a doe eyed virgin . Before anyone says " Yes but Cotts got us promoted " if we go down again we've not progressed and if Cotts was just Coach and not responsible for every thing at the club down to the brand of tea in the canteen perhaps he'd still have his mojo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Nomad said: And Reading. And Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: Too true , the problem is that managers can't drop themselves for a game or two to recuperate. Cotterill , i'm convinced , has given absolutely all he has to this club and i thank him very since rely for his diligence . This , IMHO, is where the club have fallen down . No human being can do all that this old style of manager does for any length of time . Burn out is inévitable . We accepted Cott's demands to be ' manager ' not ' coach ' and now i believe that results are suffering because of this . The club should have stuck to their guns and not given in like a doe eyed virgin . Before anyone says " Yes but Cotts got us promoted " if we go down again we've not progressed and if Cotts was just Coach and not responsible for every thing at the club down to the brand of tea in the canteen perhaps he'd still have his mojo ! I did wonder if anyone knew his wife and could have a word? She might be able to talk some sense into him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Slave to the rhythm said: And Blackburn. And Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 21 minutes ago, Robin1988 said: It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Lansdown was right . IMHO Cotts is wrong . Look at what Ranieri is currently saying at Leicester , he acknowledges the gulf in class between his club and the bigger more established clubs but talks of ' fighting ' . There's a difference . Cott's incoherence is not working . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 54 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if fans keep publicly bleating about them not being good enough. Constant negative comments from supporters (?) can drain anybodies morale so god knows what it must do the the players. With a couple of small changes your post can refer to fans and Ashton Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 16 minutes ago, WTMS said: With a couple of small changes your post can refer to fans and Ashton Gate. I agree to an extent but i'm sure the manager has more clout . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Cotts has surprised me a couple of times with his public utterances about the team/players 'not being good enough'. Think he said it at the start of the season and after the Derby match. Odd approach to motivation which, clearly, has failed. Still behind him but, boy, does he need to massively raise his game.... and quick. Transfer/loans shambles, subs and tactics, 'motivation' all negatives at present as demonstrated by results and league position. A real 'winner' is a fighter who defies the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I agree to an extent but i'm sure the manager has more clout . You choose how you support the team. Nobody else. Fans can opt for we are all in this together ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: I appreciate that Cotts is trying to protect the young squad that he " loves to death " but telling them that they're League 1 , inexperienced , not good enough etc is just basically giving these lads a get out clause . These boys are beaten before they've eveAgreed.n crossed the touchline against 90% of our opponents because they obviously can't compete against the bigger clubs . It is terrible psychology . Where's the inspirational , ' fighting ' talk that can lift these lads to perform above their current capabilitys ? A good coach can bring out the best in a team , Cotts says , publicity ' i can't get any more out of them ' . So these players believe they are not good enough for the Championship , it' s a self fulfilling prophecy . For this reason alone SL should be thanking SC for all he's done for the club and get someone else in . I agree.All SC talks about is protecting the squad and how fond he is of them when in reality they need to be challenged and read the riot act it some cases.How can this be the preparation for the fight of our lives to stay in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Three Lions said: I think it is being suggested that Steve Cotterills team talks consist of him telling players they are not good enough and that they are only division one standard. Yeah righto!!!! No it is n't . It's being plainly spelt out that he's publicly saying our lads are n't good enough . Does that help you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Anybody trying to turn this into a positive thread about supporting the team. Do not have it. Throw the happy clapper card at them. KEEP THE PSYCHOLOGY NEGATIVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, hortonred said: I agree.All SC talks about is protecting the squad and how fond he is of them when in reality they need to be challenged and read the riot act it some cases.How can this be the preparation for the fight of our lives to stay in this division. After the Reading game the players were kept in for two hours as the Manager did just that. How is this known? People who were going to meet the players had to wait outside. Keeping what is said in private, away from the media and scrutiny of those like this forum cab be looked upon as basic professionalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said: I don't see how anyone in any industry can be enthused, motivated and prepared to put their body on the line if the manager keeps publicly bleating about them not being good enough. His comments drain my morale so god knows what it must do the his "group of players". In the 'real world' I would agree with you, but these are footballers. Whilst some have lost that streak (and I'm not suggesting our own), most should be considered amongst the most determined personalities for them to even make it this far in the game. Most of our players have been told they aren't good enough before; plenty have been released or sold from Prem academies, but they've put it behind them and forged their way back to a very high level when you consider how widely the game is played. I do not believe our players or footballers are really that precious and I believe they probably would have the personality trait of 'I'll show you' rather than being shrinking violets. Sure there are exceptions and sure there will be players who buy in to their own hype (particularly once they've picked up their first few paycheques), but I don't think we have bad eggs. Above everything else though, if there is consensus that psychology plays such a big part - and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular - read otib or listen to groans in the ground and tell me what a significant number of fans are doing different to Cotts?! A bit disingenuous to slag off the manager when the fans are doing so with much more vitriol and in an equally very public manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 87 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Robin1988 said: It's the same old story trotted out from you! Cotterill is far from the first manager to say things differently in public than private. If the players are taking his media appearances over what he says to them in the dressing room, get them out the door. As I said to you last time you brought this up (and you ignored), when Klopp went in the door at Liverpool and got them six points from the top, he called it 'crazy talk' to suggest they could win the league. Arguably one of the best managers in the world using the same deflecting tactics as Cotterill. Mourinho at Chelsea and Ferguson at United. Whenever they wanted to deflect blame from the players they'd castigate the referee instead. Cotterill does much the same, the bollocks he came out with about us battering Fulham for half an hour at AG in October was another of his smokescreens, and you've walked straight into them. What he said on Monday about bringing in new players seems disingenous too, I think he's preparing for a tough January and trying not to get too ahead of himself with proclaiming the saviour is about to arrive. Given what happened in the summer, it's probably a wise move. Mourinho was brilliant at this, especially during his first spell as Chelsea manager. It was always about him, when Chelsea lost it would be some wild accusations at the ref or some other story to deflect attention away from the players and therefore the pressure away from the players. Unfortunately for him he fell on his own sword by taking things too far with the Medic this time around which ultimately proved his downfall. As has been mentioned here previously, those who think that the media get the same message as the players need a reality check. The players and manager / coaching staff spend more time with each other than they will with their families on average and all they will be doing is preparing on how they can beat the next opposition, not sat around feeling sorry for themselves because they aren't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robson Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said: The psychology has been wrong all year. Since we beat Walsall 8-1 it has been downhill. Say what you want about the performances, this championship experience started awfully before we kicked a ball. The fans knew it, the manager knew it and the players knew it. That first game against Brentord when we went 1 up and our knew signing scored his first was the best it had been all year. From that Freeman red card on, awful. The psychology has been wrong all year. It all started in the summer. Even before the Freeman red the fans knew we were short handed. Talk was small squad is a risk with injury and suspension. Our fears confirmed first home game. Think everyone sensed it We beat Walsall 8-2. First game was against Sheffield Wednesday away. Fair points, but I thought our performances in some games have been outstanding. Just lacking that killer pass and clinical finish. As the results weren't coming the heads started dropping. Think will change once we sign some players/player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 23 minutes ago, Claude said: We beat Walsall 8-2. First game was against Sheffield Wednesday away. Fair points, but I thought our performances in some games have been outstanding. Just lacking that killer pass and clinical finish. As the results weren't coming the heads started dropping. Think will change once we sign some players/player. There have been some lovely performances but it almost feels like something is holding them back. From the first time I saw them come out of the tunnel this season they didn't look the same. They didn't look as happy or joyful. I hope you're right though. Hope we get a new face or two and the mood picks up. I'm sure the crowd would get more optimistic and maybe it'll kick start a run to get us mid table. The league certainly isn't dominant and anyone could go on a run. Just need the confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: There have been some lovely performances but it almost feels like something is holding them back. From the first time I saw them come out of the tunnel this season they didn't look the same. They didn't look as happy or joyful. I hope you're right though. Hope we get a new face or two and the mood picks up. I'm sure the crowd would get more optimistic and maybe it'll kick start a run to get us mid table. The league certainly isn't dominant and anyone could go on a run. Just need the confidence. A bit like when Coppell joined us. That first match and he slinked out of the tunnel, I knew something was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayteomike2 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 you can also ask why at the moment out of the promoted clubs we are in the worst position on and off the field how is the ground improvement taken up the time of directors and I know people will say there are different budgets but look at the majority of the teams that have ground improvements have a dip in form for a few years although there are exceptions arsenal and man city come to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, 29AR said: In the 'real world' I would agree with you, but these are footballers. Whilst some have lost that streak (and I'm not suggesting our own), most should be considered amongst the most determined personalities for them to even make it this far in the game. Most of our players have been told they aren't good enough before; plenty have been released or sold from Prem academies, but they've put it behind them and forged their way back to a very high level when you consider how widely the game is played. I do not believe our players or footballers are really that precious and I believe they probably would have the personality trait of 'I'll show you' rather than being shrinking violets. Sure there are exceptions and sure there will be players who buy in to their own hype (particularly once they've picked up their first few paycheques), but I don't think we have bad eggs. Above everything else though, if there is consensus that psychology plays such a big part - and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular - read otib or listen to groans in the ground and tell me what a significant number of fans are doing different to Cotts?! A bit disingenuous to slag off the manager when the fans are doing so with much more vitriol and in an equally very public manner. All fair points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip Broadwalk Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 No major what the Manager says in public and in the dressing room are very different things. You do not know what Steve Cotterill says to the players at all but are stating he has got it t wrong. Steve Cotterill will get coated off by many no matter what he says. Fans want the bloke to fall on his arse now.. Fans are having a pop a the Manager and players but actually know nada of what is going on in that dressing room. So no other does not help. Slagging players off and the Manager on a forum or at the ground is hardly support and will not help. Why not put that energy into getting behind the team lads???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Three Lions said: No major what the Manager says in public and in the dressing room are very different things. You do not know what Steve Cotterill says to the players at all but are stating he has got it t wrong. Steve Cotterill will get coated off by many no matter what he says. Fans want the bloke to fall on his arse now.. Fans are having a pop a the Manager and players but actually know nada of what is going on in that dressing room. So no other does not help. Slagging players off and the Manager on a forum or at the ground is hardly support and will not help. Why not put that energy into getting behind the team lads???? Who is saying what Cotts says in the dressing room ? All i'm saying is that publicly stating that these top lads are not ' good enough ' is bad psychology and not conducive to better performances on the pitch because the players have a ready made excuse for losing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, Cowshed said: The club uses a physchologist. What Mr Cotterill says in public is very different to what is said in private. Ashton Gate is not a very noisy ground, sections of "support" are not supportive of players, and it is almost a tradition to single out individuals amongst the team. Yes the psychology of some fans, not all is completely wrong. The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Lansdown was right . IMHO Cotts is wrong . Look at what Ranieri is currently saying at Leicester , he acknowledges the gulf in class between his club and the bigger more established clubs but talks of ' fighting ' . There's a difference . Cott's incoherence is not working . What's Lansdown got do with you missing out on his public and private personas? Look at what Cotterill said before Huddersfield. 'Be brave', 'take risks'. Ranieri can't say anything wrong, they're going to be on cloud nine until the end of the season. Do you think in private Cotterill tells his players not to fight? It might seem incoherent to you but it's not difficult for most people to get their head around. Whether or not he can actually give them the fight is a very different argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip Broadwalk Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Seriously major you are giving it the big he's got it wrong with not even close to half the picture. Doubt Steve Cotterill is there in training asking for less intensity and loads of touches on the ball because lads you ain't got the quality. Bloke got it 100 per cent right last season and now he is a clueless idiot !!! Bloke has been in the game all his life v the rest of us who played Sunday league. Bit of credit and respect is due and a lot more support of the team we are supposed to support would be of far more use than yet another negative thread to add to the rest. Too many with a passion for moaning v supporting. Get behind the team whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Phantom Posted December 30, 2015 Admin Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, shelts said: The fans have been very patient, the club and team are very fortunate to have such loyal support. Yes it starting to waver in some sections but u can't please everyone, we need more to shout about. Under immense pressure Cotts is starting to make mistakes and it's rather obvious. Hope we stay up and all the better if its him in charge that does it. Totally agree with you on this, you only have to look at the numbers going to Reading and WBA to see that many are behind the team One thing that is for sure, is that 10+ years ago the crowd would have definately turned on the players and manager within the ground by now. The vibe I get is more from frustration than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Six seven thousand used to make more nose than this AG 2015. The psychology is wrong. There have been car cashes due to the speed of people racing home to gnash and gnarl about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 31 minutes ago, phantom said: One thing that is for sure, is that 10+ years ago the crowd would have definately turned on the players and manager within the ground by now. It's a different situation though, last time we were heading out the trap door of this league it was because we had a disjointed team who weren't busting a gut for the club and didn't really have any affinity to it. This year we're not failing for the want of trying to be our best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 5 hours ago, Cowshed said: Yes Major the club like most if not all uses psychologists. Physiology is also part of coaching modules which no doubt those who berate players for being called Johnson or Skuse and now Pack have as qualifications. A thought that physiologist share is that supportive environments do improve performance. The team could benefit from a bit of what fans are attempting in the Atyeo being more widespread. Bristol City FC does not benefit from the countless threads on Otib seeking to undermine and ridicule Steve Cotterill, Steve Lansdown and players. Whilst I understand what you are saying...do you not think the majority of fans support the Club when playing a match? Even SC has come out recently and said how much he and the players appreciate the vocal support at games. What's written on here, makes no difference when it comes to support...is it any different to SC coming out and publicly talking about his players, like the OP observed? Everyone supports the Club...they pay good money doing it...but fans are entitled to have an opinion, whether positively or constructive criticism, as they all want what's best for the club. Ignoring glaring problems and not talking about them, is just a form of putting your head in the sand and giving blinkered happy clappy support. The Club bring any criticism on themselves, by often spouting crap into the media and expecting intelligent fans to fall for it. Treat your fans with contempt and what do they expect? The players will get 100% support from me...and from what I observe, from the majority as well....but I do question the logic of what goes on at our club, as do many fans....and they are entitled to do so, as long as it's not personal and done in a constructive adult manner.....wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, spudski said: Whilst I understand what you are saying...do you not think the majority of fans support the Club when playing a match? Even SC has come out recently and said how much he and the players appreciate the vocal support at games. What's written on here, makes no difference when it comes to support...is it any different to SC coming out and publicly talking about his players, like the OP observed? Everyone supports the Club...they pay good money doing it...but fans are entitled to have an opinion, whether positively or constructive criticism, as they all want what's best for the club. Ignoring glaring problems and not talking about them, is just a form of putting your head in the sand and giving blinkered happy clappy support. The Club bring any criticism on themselves, by often spouting crap into the media and expecting intelligent fans to fall for it. Treat your fans with contempt and what do they expect? The players will get 100% support from me...and from what I observe, from the majority as well....but I do question the logic of what goes on at our club, as do many fans....and they are entitled to do so, as long as it's not personal and done in a constructive adult manner.....wouldn't you agree? What is written on forums does and can make a difference. 2006/07 fans using forums persuaded Mr Lansdown to open a stand, fans using forums have put significant numbers on a away game at Peterbrough, fans using forums created a chant that got stands bouncing and on that goes. People who use forums are attempting to affect the thought of others in some manner. Your posts clearly do try to influence with others ... Denying that you are not attempting to alter the thoughts of others in a negative or positive or in any form is ridiculous. The overt negativity of forums can be destructive. If a fraction of that time was devoted to the positive support of the team Ashton Gate would only be a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Pretty sure the only game where he's said we can't compete with the opposition was Derby. And he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 22 minutes ago, WTMS said: What is written on forums does and can make a difference. 2006/07 fans using forums persuaded Mr Lansdown to open a stand, fans using forums have put significant numbers on a away game at Peterbrough, fans using forums created a chant that got stands bouncing and on that goes. People who use forums are attempting to affect the thought of others in some manner. Your posts clearly do try to influence with others ... Denying that you are not attempting to alter the thoughts of others in a negative or positive or in any form is ridiculous. The overt negativity of forums can be destructive. If a fraction of that time was devoted to the positive support of the team Ashton Gate would only be a better place. I agree, Negativity for negativity sake, is harmful...but fans talking in a constructive way, whether it be positive or constructive criticism ( which IS positive, because the fans doing it, want the best for the club ) should be tolerated and debated in an adult manner, according to forum guidelines. It's often the same as the house of commons at speakers question time....pros and cons spoken about. People talk about how we could run the country better...likewise with how we could run the club better. Just opinions of course...but without opinions what's the point of a forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Pretty sure the only game where he's said we can't compete with the opposition was Derby. And he's right. Why though? Its not like Derby gave any clubs spanking before us, they haven't won every game this season and rolled over all before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Just now, Dark Wood Covert said: Why though? Its not like Derby gave any clubs spanking before us, they haven't won every game this season and rolled over all before them. Tom Ince: 5m Jason Shackell: 3.5m Andy Weimann: 2m+ Bradley Johnson: 6m Jacob Butterfield: 4m+ That was their summer business. Not forgetting the astronomical wages that Bent will no doubt be on, and the big money signings they've made previously. That's why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Tom Ince: 5m Jason Shackell: 3.5m Andy Weimann: 2m+ Bradley Johnson: 6m Jacob Butterfield: 4m+ That was their summer business. Not forgetting the astronomical wages that Bent will no doubt be on, and the big money signings they've made previously. That's why! Before your tone gets all aggressive.... Boro and Hull. Boro are probably a better side than Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Bcfc Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 15 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said: Before your tone gets all aggressive.... Boro and Hull. Boro are probably a better side than Derby. Not sure what part of my post suggests any aggression whatsoever.. Anyway, lets face it, as good as that Boro result was, it was a one off. Hull, a draw was a good result, but then they've since been beaten by Rotherham and PNE. Im just being realistic in saying that Derby side is far, far superior. I expected nothing but a hammering as that is what the strength of the two squads suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said: Not sure what part of my post suggests any aggression whatsoever.. Anyway, lets face it, as good as that Boro result was, it was a one off. Hull, a draw was a good result, but then they've since been beaten by Rotherham and PNE. Im just being realistic in saying that Derby side is far, far superior. I expected nothing but a hammering as that is what the strength of the two squads suggests. I think the fans have been very patient but now Christmas has been and gone, and seeing where we are, feelings will ramp up from now on. Being soundly beaten away at Derby and Burnley hurts but you have to take those sometimes. Both teams have their eyes on the big reward and will be ruthless to get there, as they have proved by their transfer dealings. Everyone must set out to win their home games and not lose away. Yes Charlton are fighting for their lives too but psychologically they inflicted more damage on the team and the fans than just snatching the points. As for the apparent negative comments from Cotterill 'I can't get any more out of them' etc maybe he is trying to get them to prove him wrong (yes, I'm looking for straws to grasp I know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, spudski said: I agree, Negativity for negativity sake, is harmful...but fans talking in a constructive way, whether it be positive or constructive criticism ( which IS positive, because the fans doing it, want the best for the club ) should be tolerated and debated in an adult manner, according to forum guidelines. It's often the same as the house of commons at speakers question time....pros and cons spoken about. People talk about how we could run the country better...likewise with how we could run the club better. Just opinions of course...but without opinions what's the point of a forum? Spudski in one post you state that what is written on here makes no difference to support then go on to agree it does. There is a consistent stream of negativity on this forum, which is posted for no other reason than to spread more negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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