Kodjia

[Guest Warmley_Reds]

more time needed on the training ground with a pot of salt and a bottle of ketchup teaching him to stay on side!

goals would of come with him staying on side IMO

 

DISCUSS....

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Just now, Warmley_Reds said:

more time neededforever training ground with a pot of salt and a bottle of ketchup teaching him to stay on side!

goals would of come with im staying on side IMO

 

DISCUSS....

Takes two to tango. If the ball player takes forevrr To pass IT of course he'll be offside

[Phileas Fogg]

He's almost certainly being instructed to play on the shoulder. He had the beating of their defence for pace and the management knew that.

He could improve at staying onside but our midfield haven't been great at finding his runs; it's a two way thing.

[Guest Warmley_Reds]

i guess your referring to Marlon Pack

[samo II]

It's been discussed to death elsewhere.

And as spoken about elsewhere; for all is offsides, he's pretty much the only player at the sharp end trying to get us goals - it's difficult to not understand the frustration when he is carry the majority of threat for the side.

Also, look at the offside stats the other way; he plays on the shoulder, so will always be walking that fine line, so perhaps our midfielders/his teammates need to be sharper of mind when releasing passes to him?

Watching a recent game (Hull at home) with a oppositon fan, he commented on how they needed someone on the shoulder like Kodjia to make the most of their passing from midfield; maybe we're looking for at the symptom of a problem that originates elsewhere on the pitch?

[djb6162]

3 minutes ago, Warmley_Reds said:

more time needed on the training ground with a pot of salt and a bottle of ketchup teaching him to stay on side!

goals would of come with im staying on side IMO

 

DISCUSS....

Not on yesterdays performance.

on side or not he was woeful.

sorry this is not goibg to go down well with the kodjia camp, but as i said elsewhere ... If that was wibbs agard or freeman , stead, taylor baldock davis, they would have had pelters.

he was greedy, hung on to the ball too long, over elaborated, and as for his shooting,... atrocious

i will leave you to elaborate on the off sides.. I lost count after 8 i think.

of course others will say its wibbs' fault. i dont agree.

even smith lost it with kodjia yesterday Big time

 

[Guest Warmley_Reds]

Just now, djb6162 said:

Not on yesterdays performance.

on side or not he was woeful.

sorry this is not goibg to go down well with the kodjia camp, but as i said elsewhere ... If that was wibbs agard or freeman , stead, taylor baldock davis, they would have had pelters.

he was greedy, hung on to the ball too long, over elaborated, and as for his shooting,... atrocious

i will leave you to elaborate on the off sides.. I lost count after 8 i think.

of course others will say its wibbs' fault. i dont agree.

even smith lost it with kodjia yesterday Big time

 

yeah totally agree, turning players inside and out! to then go and try to do it again! the hard work was done all was needed was to release the ball!

[Davefevs]

Wilbs got caught offside twice from dead balls! 

[Guest Warmley_Reds]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Wilbs got caught offside twice from dead balls! 

do you expect anything else from him?

[Guest Eugene Victor Tooms]

As suggested above the biggest help for Kodjia would an alternative attacking threat.  

Who else in the team will provide the odd goal?

[Guest Warmley_Reds]

1 minute ago, Eugene Victor Tooms said:

As suggested above the biggest help for Kodjia would an alternative attacking threat.  

Who else in the team will provide the odd goal?

Ronny  Pickering?

[djb6162]

Just now, Eugene Victor Tooms said:

As suggested above the biggest help for Kodjia would an alternative attacking threat.  

Who else in the team will provide the odd goal?

 

he wasnt interested ..... Could have had ronaldo with him, he was going it alone yesterday and that was that

should have been hauled off after and hour 

"dill the dog" comes to mind with kodjia

 

[cidered abroad]

10 minutes ago, Warmley_Reds said:

yeah totally agree, turning players inside and out! to then go and try to do it again! the hard work was done all was needed was to release the ball!

Kodjia and/or Freeman? Both are doing the same.

I'll forgive Kodjia because he really is on his own up front. Too much of a burden to bear on his shoulders.

[samo II]

7 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

Not on yesterdays performance.

on side or not he was woeful.

sorry this is not goibg to go down well with the kodjia camp, but as i said elsewhere ... If that was wibbs agard or freeman , stead, taylor baldock davis, they would have had pelters.

he was greedy, hung on to the ball too long, over elaborated, and as for his shooting,... atrocious

i will leave you to elaborate on the off sides.. I lost count after 8 i think.

of course others will say its wibbs' fault. i dont agree.

even smith lost it with kodjia yesterday Big time

 

Can't argue with that, as wasn't at yesterday's game.  Perhaps he does need a spell on the sidelines to get sharper and come back strong.

But hard to see that happening, considering how frankly dire the rest of the team have been in offering the side any kind of cutting edge.

QPR is one or numenrous examples of when it was essentially Kodjia versus a goalkeeper, and where the keeper came out on top.  Ironically, in that game the one move that actually involved a umber of our players making quick, forward passes resulted in Wilbs getting on the scoresheet - if only we were that positive all the time, perhaps we'd have to rely less on Kodjia to keep us on the front foot; it's not like anyone else is consistently doing that.

The options we have other than JK SC obviously doesn't want to use, for whatever reason (I may not agree, but that is the reality), so either we hound him for following instructions but having a bad game, or we wake up and realise that the rest of the team is so devoid of ability that he is seemingly one of our best outlets capable of and will probably start regardless of that bad game.

[Pickle Rick]

19 minutes ago, samo II said:

It's been discussed to death elsewhere.

And as spoken about elsewhere; for all is offsides, he's pretty much the only player at the sharp end trying to get us goals - it's difficult to not understand the frustration when he is carry the majority of threat for the side.

Also, look at the offside stats the other way; he plays on the shoulder, so will always be walking that fine line, so perhaps our midfielders/his teammates need to be sharper of mind when releasing passes to him?

Watching a recent game (Hull at home) with a oppositon fan, he commented on how they needed someone on the shoulder like Kodjia to make the most of their passing from midfield; maybe we're looking for at the symptom of a problem that originates elsewhere on the pitch?

Pack? 

[Donkeeebles]

As far as I'm concerned it's Kodjias fault.

He has plenty of pace, he doesn't need to gamble everytime. 

Its basics

[JoeAman08]

Maybe I'm protecting him a bit because of the way he started for us but I feel bad for him. I don't think it's a Kodjia problem a lot of the time. As was mentioned he's trying to time runs only for them not to be spotted or spotted too late. Now he's not without fault on some either but he is our only threat whatsoever. He looks disheartened most of the time now. He wants to do well and is to do well in return. How confident would you be if your options were Freeman and Wilbraham? I wouldn't be passing either. He's got no options

[samo II]

Just now, Scrumpy said:

Pack?

I'm not even sure he's the primary culprit; his job is to break up play, lay off the ball, and let the (apparently) attacking options in the team work.

I'm of a mind that we are 5-6 players of requisite quality to produce the sort of football second half of the season to stay up - and Kodjia is not one of those I'd look to replace.

You put him alongside a more mobile and sharper forward, and in front of a player or two who have the range of passing and eye for an opening that our current squad doesn't, then I think he'll look very much at home at this level.

I genuinely fear we'll fail to recruit well, go down, see him move to another Championship team, and see him produce his real potential, which we never were able to see due to the poverty of our playing resources.

[Robin1988]

8 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Rubbish, that cut back that he created for himself was that bit of quality and no one was there to knock it in....

As for Smith moaning, he did exactly the same to Kodjia later on so these things happen...one of his most ineffective games in a city shirt.

He beat his man three times, Wilbraham was ready the first time and Kodjia gained nothing from going past him again... Why not just slot it across?

Smith's pass was much harder as he had two men covering but could've still slotted it through the gap, and it was poor from Smith who didn't have a great game. That doesn't excuse JK either though.

Why can we not include him in criticism just because he's been one of our best players this year? He's not perfect and not immune from criticism.

[pongo88]

23 minutes ago, samo II said:

 

Watching a recent game (Hull at home) with a oppositon fan, he commented on how they needed someone on the shoulder like Kodjia to make the most of their passing from midfield; maybe we're looking for at the symptom of a problem that originates elsewhere on the pitch?

IMO passing from midfield, or rather the lack of it is City's problem with Kodjia. Most of his passes are hit from long range. What the team needs is a least one good creative midfield player, who play much closer to him, and who thread good passes to him. i e a better version of Bobby Reid 

[Slippin cider]

 

Unable to go yesterday due to work but from what I've read Kodjia spent more time off than on side!! 

[samo II]

1 minute ago, pongo88 said:

IMO passing from midfield, or rather the lack of it is City's problem with Kodjia. Most of his passes are hit from long range. What the team needs is a least one good creative midfield player, who play much closer to him, and who thread good passes to him. i e a better version of Bobby Reid 

I agree.

As much as Elliott was primary there to hold the midfield, alongside Smith he freed up Freeman to focus completely on looking to assist the forwards.  

Pack was able to help with this when he came in last season, but at this level the three in the middle are having to fight so much harder to make sure we are not over run that no one has the time, energy or indeed quality to do that.

The forwards are living on scraps and poor service.

[Davefevs]

In finding a partner for Kodjia we do need to consider several things....and weigh up what us more important.

Cotts states that Wilbs takes the heavy challenges away from Kodjia (remember Hull), but gives us no option in behind, which also impacts Freeman's space

Agard closes down defenders and can run into the channels but isn't blisteringly quick.  

We need a partner who can do a bit of both!

[Charliesboots]

He clearly wants to play off the defenders shoulder and has the pace and skill to do so (if not always the brains to take the simple option) which I'm sure as he learns and matures will come good. 

Problem we have as discussed already by some on this thread is the midfield not releasing it early enough for him to make it count, it's like they are a yard behind his thinking every time. Imagine if we weren't he'd be deadly.

Result is he gets caught offside, gets frustrated, goes on a one man mission to "do it in spite of" the rest of the team. 

I don't have a problem with that side of him as it shows me he cares and wants to win, just need him to channel that into the simple option. 

 

[BRISTOL86]

27 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

 

he wasnt interested ..... Could have had ronaldo with him, he was going it alone yesterday and that was that

should have been hauled off after and hour 

"dill the dog" comes to mind with kodjia

 

No wonder he goes alone because against Charlton I lost count of the number of times that he made intelligent runs that begged for an early ball and countless times that ball didn't come, mentioning no names Luke Freeman....

[1960maaan]

When he first came I think he did play more of a team game, but there have been dozens of occasions (admittedly I've only seen the home games) ,where he's been hanging on the shoulder waiting for a pass that never came. Just once in a while I would have liked to see the ball slid through on the off chance, make him run. 

On the other side of the coin, he seems more and more like it's HIS ball and the QPR game we actually discussed if it was managers orders for him to shoot EVERY time he got the ball !  It does seem like he has decided he's either not going to get the pass or he's better than the rest, either way it's a bit of a lone wolf show at times. 

Part of the problem is Freemans first thought is run with the ball, Pack is a little too thoughtfull and the wide men rarely get the ball early enough to slide him in. It is an option we should have been using from day one, not the punt over the top but definitely a ball through to run onto.  We need to try and add it to plan 'A' !

[hortonred]

Kodjia still is a work in progress. A lot to learn. Yesterday Korey Smith made a great run in to the box and was completely unmarked. A quick ball across and we could have scored. But dawdled around not seeming to know what to do and another opportunity went. He definitely needs a good striker up with him to help his development and take the pressure off of him. And Wilbraham as hard as he tries is not the answer.

[georgebcfc]

The more I see of kodjia the more convinced I am that he is playing for himself and not the team. As with the Charlton game, and several others earlier on in the season, he spends most of the game sulking, head down, trundling about the pitch.. And as mentioned above more often than not he's offside!

I  don't think it's fair to pin "terrible service, holding onto the ball for too long" on the midfield, I personally thought the service yesterday was actually quite good and pack and freeman did OK against tough opposition in Williams and Norwood.

Everyone else yesterday put a shift in and his performance, for me, was not up to scratch - not just over elaborating the play and consistently running offside, and ruining the flow of our counter-attacks as a result, but if a pass is not inch perfect he appears to give up on it and throws his hands up! Yes, he's easily our most talented player, and when it comes off its fantastic, but the fact is we're in a relegation battle here, and the team as a whole need to step up to the challenge. We don't have the capacity for luxury primadonnas which kodjia is starting to resemble. 

I would go with agard/burns up with wilbraham v Preston, as kodjia is quite clearly having a detrimental impact on the team with several of the more senior players showing their frustration.

[ciderbeans]

Seems Derby set to sign forward  abdoul camara from angers. Surely a strike partner there for Jimmy?

[GrahamC]

Simply think that he's hit "the wall", he's started every game but one in a league that is far more physical and relentless than he is used to.

Add to that as Samo says, he's pretty much all of our goal threat on his own and plays in a side where as he is the only non English speaker (with no obvious signs he is making progress there) there are going to be language issues, too and so at present it is pretty tough for him all round.

If Agard is fit enough by Saturday I'd give him and Wes the 90 minutes together, if we had anyone else I'd actually give Kodjia the week off, but as we have a squad of about 15 he'll have to be on the bench at West Brom no matter what.

From here 16 goals for the season would be some effort from him, those who ridiculously predicted he'd get 25 or so really have no idea how hard scoring consistently at this level is.

[Frenchay Red]

He does play off the shoulder of the last defender.

 

Unfortunately, more often than not, it's the wrong shoulder.

[Shtanley]

Without the bloke I think we'd be rock bottom. I attribute the enormous number of offsides partly down to nobody being on his wavelength. Reid so far is the only one seeing these runs. 

[samo II]

16 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Without the bloke I think we'd be rock bottom. I attribute the enormous number of offsides partly down to nobody being on his wavelength. Reid so far is the only one seeing these runs. 

Kodjia has 9 goals; the team has 22.  He scored in both our last two wins, with his goal against Wolves being the only one of the game.

He also has at least one assist, so is responsible for close to half our goals this year.  So, sure; let's drop him - I'm sure the rest of the squad will make up for the difference.

I actually agree with @GrahamC- give him the WBA game off, or on the bench; I don't believe we can win that game, and the match against PNE the following Tuesday is far more important.

But nice to see the knives come out for him after a few bad games over the Christmas period, where his team mates have so clearly excelled in context - very much feels like the chat from two years ago when JET's goals and assists in the first half of the season where dismissed as unimportant, when the points that they won us contributed as much to keeping us up as SC's arrival.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, djb6162 said:

 

sorry this is not goibg to go down well with the kodjia camp, but as i said elsewhere ... If that was wibbs agard or freeman , stead, taylor baldock davis, they would have had pelters.

I wonder why some may be more patient with Kodj over say Taylor... Oh yeah, Kodjia scores goals. 

Baldock did get pelters for the same reason as always being off side. It's a reflection of the game he shares with Kodjia - being on the shoulder. Some appreciate its down to timing of pass also, and that it creates a tough call for a linesman which typically they bottle. 

If Wilbs, Stead, Taylor etc are/were offside it is damn stupid because they are target men who are there to relieve pressure by holding up a ball and laying it off. They have no reason to be pushing the line. 

But Kodj, Agard, Freeman, even if it was your lad, I'd have far more patience! 

 

[Shtanley]

@djb6162 I've been quite annoyed recently that I haven't been able to see Wes get more time on pitch. I think he'd be great alongside Kodjia for various reasons. Out of interest who do you think he'd be best playing with?

[djb6162]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

Kodjia has 9 goals; the team has 22.  He scored in both our last two wins, with his goal against Wolves being the only one of the game.

He also has at least one assist, so is responsible for close to half our goals this year.  So, sure; let's drop him - I'm sure the rest of the squad will make up for the difference.

I actually agree with @GrahamC- give him the WBA game off, or on the bench; I don't believe we can win that game, and the match against PNE the following Tuesday is far more important.

But nice to see the knives come out for him after a few bad games over the Christmas period, where his team mates have so clearly excelled in context - very much feels like the chat from two years ago when JET's goals and assists in the first half of the season where dismissed as unimportant, when the points that they won us contributed as much to keeping us up as SC's arrival.

I hear what you say samo, and there is a danger of taking yesterday out of proportion, so thats a fair shout mate.

however to be clear, i dont have the "knives out" for him or any of our players come to that.

but i was furious yesterday, as were all those around me who were begging him to getvhis head up !!!

the OP asked for a discusion and it seemed to me he was over simplifying Jks problem.

its not the off sides that worry me as frustrating as they are, on side or not, he is playing for himself.

its his over elaboration and selfish approach which cost us yesterday and if we are all honest with each other, he was no better v Charlton or Burnley, so we should all stop pretending this a knee jerk.

 

[Shtanley]

4 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

I hear what you say samo, and there is a danger of taking yesterday out of proportion, so thats a fair shout mate.

however to be clear, i dont have the "knives out" for him or any of our players come to that.

but i was furious yesterday, as were all those around me who were begging him to getvhis head up !!!

the OP asked for a discusion and it seemed to me he was over simplifying Jks problem.

its not the off sides that worry me as frustrating as they are, on side or not, he is playing for himself.

its his over elaboration and selfish approach which cost us yesterday and if we are all honest with each other, he was no better v Charlton or Burnley, so we should all stop pretending this a knee jerk.

 

His selfish approach is something that the Angers fans commented on, but do you think it's partly down to the rest of the team not scoring as many as him? Most good strikers are greedy but I do think at times he's got his head down too often. 

[balderino]

Kodjia is definitely still a "work in progress" . He's still very naive in many respects e.g. all the offsides yesterday, and his lack of a left foot is almost shocking for a professional footballer in a striking role. You know he is always going to try and get back onto his right so anybody doing the slightest bit of home work will know that.

So our current preferred attack is based on two people that in an ideal world would be great to come on as subs for the last 20 mins!  Kodjia and Wilbs. Yes I know how we got to this position and why , but that is reality now in my opinion.   

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

Kodjia has 9 goals; the team has 22.  He scored in both our last two wins, with his goal against Wolves being the only one of the game.

He also has at least one assist, so is responsible for close to half our goals this year.  So, sure; let's drop him - I'm sure the rest of the squad will make up for the difference.

I actually agree with @GrahamC- give him the WBA game off, or on the bench; I don't believe we can win that game, and the match against PNE the following Tuesday is far more important.

But nice to see the knives come out for him after a few bad games over the Christmas period, where his team mates have so clearly excelled in context - very much feels like the chat from two years ago when JET's goals and assists in the first half of the season where dismissed as unimportant, when the points that they won us contributed as much to keeping us up as SC's arrival.

Generally they aren't knives, they're valid criticisms which don't overlook his contribution this season relative to the rest of the squad.

None of the above makes it wrong to be frustrated by some of what he did yesterday.

[Super]

Really annoys me never know whether strikers are just stupid or lazy being caught offside time and time again. Do we have a striking coach?

[samo II]

1 minute ago, djb6162 said:

I hear what you say samo, and there is a danger of taking yesterday out of proportion, so thats a fair shout mate.

however to be clear, i dont have the "knives out" for him or any of our players come to that.

but i was furious yesterday, as were all those around me who were begging him to getvhis head up !!!

the OP asked for a discusion and it seemed to me he was over simplifying Jks problem.

its not the off sides that worry me as frustrating as they are, on side or not, he is playing for himself.

its his over elaboration and selfish approach which cost us yesterday and if we are all honest with each other, he was no better v Charlton or Burnley, so we should all stop pretending this a knee jerk.

 

I'd certainly not meant to imply you were being over critical, and won't stand up and say he's been any better than anyone else across the last three (though he was easily our most pro-active outlet the QPR game prior, and would have had a hat-trick but for Green in goal).

Maybe we need to mix it up, including resting him; worth noting he'll not have played over winter before, having played in France prior.

My point was more that as selfish as he might be, or as bad as he might be currently, I'd still trust him to get us a goal more than any other player on that pitch.

I'm certainly not pandering when I say that I'd actually be interested to see Kodjia and Wes being played together; the pace alone would put teams on their heels, and I'm simply not convinced Wilbs has the stamina to last a full game anymore.

[djb6162]

22 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

@djb6162 I've been quite annoyed recently that I haven't been able to see Wes get more time on pitch. I think he'd be great alongside Kodjia for various reasons. Out of interest who do you think he'd be best playing with?

10 other players on a saturday afternoon from 3pm till around 4.50 would be good  for a change

Seriously,  thats a  great question..... People tend to overrlook that for Wales, Wes Plays the lone striker role, but they ask him to drift wide into the channels to create space for the midfield and to draw defenders.

 

he's got 6 in about 13 games from that i think, by hugging the touchline and not crowding the space.

his pace allows him to do that and to then make the dangerous runs, him and Bobby do that well in the u21s and to be fair Packy knows how to use Wes as well.

i like to see if by playing with Kodjia, they create much more space for one another and additionally allow Luke Freeman much more space to run into as well.

if he plays with Wibbs, it cant be after Wibbs has had 70/80 mins, it would need to be with fresh legs.

Wes scored all his goals for cheltenham from the RW position 6 in 11 games i think, so he can contribute from wide as well.

 

 

 

 

[Shtanley]

4 minutes ago, djb6162 said:

10 other players on a saturday afternoon from 3pm till around 4.50 would be good  for a change

Seriously,  thats a  great question..... People tend to overrlook that for Wales, Wes Plays the lone striker role, but they ask him to drift wide into the channels to create space for the midfield and to draw defenders.

 

he's got 6 in about 13 games from that i think, by hugging the touchline and not crowding the space.

his pace allows him to do that and to then make the dangerous runs, him and Bobby do that well in the u21s and to be fair Packy knows how to use Wes as well.

i like to see if by playing with Kodjia, they create much more space for one another and additionally allow Luke Freeman much more space to run into as well.

if he plays with Wibbs, it cant be after Wibbs has had 70/80 mins, it would need to be with fresh legs.

Wes scored all his goals for cheltenham from the RW position 6 in 11 games i think, so he can contribute from wide as well.

Yeah I think their styles would work well. At what point with all this lack of game time can/does Wes say something? Either for more chances or loan or God forbid a permenant. Does SC strike you as an approachable man?

[djb6162]

1 hour ago, Shtanley said:

Yeah I think their styles would work well. At what point with all this lack of game time can/does Wes say something? Either for more chances or loan or God forbid a permenant. Does SC strike you as an approachable man?

Difficult for me to speak openly really.

what i can say is the moment for wes to be playing football has already come and gone.

nobody ......not even the gaffa is denying that.

 

 

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, balderino said:

Kodjia is definitely still a "work in progress" . He's still very naive in many respects e.g. all the offsides yesterday, and his lack of a left foot is almost shocking for a professional footballer in a striking role. You know he is always going to try and get back onto his right so anybody doing the slightest bit of home work will know that. Agree with this, and if we were doing ok or even had options as good as Kodjia he'd have been rested I'm sure.

So our current preferred attack is based on two people that in an ideal world would be great to come on as subs for the last 20 mins!  Kodjia and Wilbs. Yes I know how we got to this position and why , but that is reality now in my opinion.  Now this I don't agree with. Wilbs as a sub would only be in desperate, route 1 style panic substitution. Kodjia would be a starter as he settled in unless he struggled. 

What I would really like to know is how SC's brain is working (if ?). When players tire , why not throw on Wes? I would like to see Kodjia with some pacey support. As for Saturday, it will be pretty much as you were. I'd like to see a 4-5-1 with JB,LF,EB bombing on from midfield to support Kodjia, but it wont happen. Maybe Reid will get a run and maybe Agard will start alongside Wilbs, can't be many changes as we have fewer players now than Saturday morning !  One thing is for sure , JK needs support and soon !