Phileas Fogg Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, NickJ said: No its my opinion. I said Tomlin is a good player, I just have a feeling he's not as much of a team player as the squad developed over the past 2 years. Cotterill was good at identifying players with the right fit, or dare I say DNA, as was Gary Johnson. It comes with some managers with experience. Yes there is form. I haven't seen a City player having a go at a team mate in that way - ie for a prolonged period - for a long time. Sure, sometimes there is an immediate angry reaction and the players move on, but Tomlin carried on the spat with Freeman for a long time, even came over about 50 yards to continue, although it has to be said they did end up shaking hands. After the Agard penalty miss he was gesticulating for quite a long time afterwards. I could be wrong, and its not a major issue at the moment. He's actually my sort of footballer, but I have a feeling he needs careful man management. I always think to make the transition from a lower league side to a side with serious aspirations of reaching them prem you need to be able to manage these types of players. GJ couldn't do it very well, and arguably never got the best out of Trundle for example who was a bit of an enigma like Tomlin. I rate Tomlin hugely but he's a hothead and pretty volatile as shown by those leaked messages he apparently sent on Twitter about Howe. I agree, careful man management is needed with people like him but if you can manage them well, keep them fit, motivated and happy you can really benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I always think to make the transition from a lower league side to a side with serious aspirations of reaching them prem you need to be able to manage these types of players. GJ couldn't do it very well, and arguably never got the best out of Trundle for example who was a bit of an enigma like Tomlin. I rate Tomlin hugely but he's a hothead and pretty volatile as shown by those leaked messages he apparently sent on Twitter about Howe. I agree, careful man management is needed with people like him but if you can manage them well, keep them fit, motivated and happy you can really benefit. Yes I agree. GJ was very good at identifying the sort of player he could manage, but those he didn't know how to deal with, he just isolated. SC on the other hand I would say is good at man managing any sort of player. I would like to have seen him manager with Trundle and Noble, I think he would have got the best out of them. JET for example was a different kettle of fish, SC just didn't think JET wanted it enough and wasn't suited to the high tempo SC wanted. If Tomlin turns out to be one of those difficult players, I doubt that LJ would have the personality to manage it. That isn't a criticism of LJ, its just difficult to envisage him knowing how to handle that sort of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 minute ago, NickJ said: Yes I agree. GJ was very good at identifying the sort of player he could manage, but those he didn't know how to deal with, he just isolated. SC on the other hand I would say is good at man managing any sort of player. I would like to have seen him manager with Trundle and Noble, I think he would have got the best out of them. JET for example was a different kettle of fish, SC just didn't think JET wanted it enough and wasn't suited to the high tempo SC wanted. If Tomlin turns out to be one of those difficult players, I doubt that LJ would have the personality to manage it. That isn't a criticism of LJ, its just difficult to envisage him knowing how to handle that sort of player. Was interesting watching JET on Saturday. He showed some nice touches, but looked so slooooooowwwwww. Watching him in the opposition didn't fill me with any fear at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Redtone said: Never understand why if Wilbraham doesn't start Smith should stay captain it's up to a good club captain to accept that not take the arm band as soon as he enters the field. Imo Smith is far more instrumental to the team barking his orders and has the respect so in my view he should of remained captain. Agree with this. Smith seems to be more involved when he has the armband, Wilbs is too laid back. It was a mistake taking Bryan off last night IMO. I can see what Johnson was thinking "we need more hold-up play. Stop the ball coming right back at us." but it did that because Brighton broke so quickly. Taking off a player with genuine pace and putting on our slowest man was not a good idea. Poor old Wilbs had virtually no influence on the match. It went on around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Agree with this. Smith seems to be more involved when he has the armband, Wilbs is too laid back. It was a mistake taking Bryan off last night IMO. I can see what Johnson was thinking "we need more hold-up play. Stop the ball coming right back at us." but it did that because Brighton broke so quickly. Taking off a player with genuine pace and putting on our slowest man was not a good idea. Poor old Wilbs had virtually no influence on the match. It went on around him. Did we ever find out if JB had a knock? Seemed an odd decision at an odd time. Thought JB was having a good game (as much as anyone did) up to that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 It's provided me with an excellent coaching point for the boys' side I manage. How not to approach not just penalties but also free kicks, corners, even throws. it would never have happened under Cotterill... It's staggering that a professional football team does not have a hierarchy of penalty takers nailed down. Either that or both Wilbraham and Agard should be fined for breaking it, no matter the circumstances at the time. I bet Agard would have been less pushy had the score been 1 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Woodsy said: Did we ever find out if JB had a knock? Seemed an odd decision at an odd time. Thought JB was having a good game (as much as anyone did) up to that point I think it was "tactical" along the lines that I outlined. Johnson thought a big bloke might meet some of the long punts from defence and have the strength to keep the ball in dangerous positions and release it for Kodj to have a crack. Sadly, Wilbs was off the pace and was a bit of a spectator as a very quick and slick Brighton simply ran and passed around him. Overlapping runs. What we seem incapable of doing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 26 minutes ago, Woodsy said: Did we ever find out if JB had a knock? Seemed an odd decision at an odd time. Thought JB was having a good game (as much as anyone did) up to that point Bryan's reaction to being taken off suggests not. He wasn't happy, rightly so. It was a poor decision, not just because it took Bryan off but also Tomlin didn't want to be out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, NickJ said: Bryan's reaction to being taken off suggests not. He wasn't happy, rightly so. It was a poor decision, not just because it took Bryan off but also Tomlin didn't want to be out there. I couldn't work out if JB was pissed off at coming off, or pissed off at having to come off with a knock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, NickJ said: Yes I agree. GJ was very good at identifying the sort of player he could manage, but those he didn't know how to deal with, he just isolated. SC on the other hand I would say is good at man managing any sort of player. I would like to have seen him manager with Trundle and Noble, I think he would have got the best out of them. JET for example was a different kettle of fish, SC just didn't think JET wanted it enough and wasn't suited to the high tempo SC wanted. If Tomlin turns out to be one of those difficult players, I doubt that LJ would have the personality to manage it. That isn't a criticism of LJ, its just difficult to envisage him knowing how to handle that sort of player. Sorry, but how on earth can you envisage anything, unless you know one or both of Tomlin and LJ. You're just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 I wonder if money came into the equation with regards to the penalty? Maybe both Tomlin and Agard have contracts that say they'll get an extra £500 if they score in a match? Wouldn't be out of the question seeing as they're both strikers. Potentially, Tomlin may be on a massive amount of money to score goals to help keep us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Of course if he scored the comeback was on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 5 hours ago, NickJ said: No its my opinion. I said Tomlin is a good player, I just have a feeling he's not as much of a team player as the squad developed over the past 2 years. Cotterill was good at identifying players with the right fit, or dare I say DNA, as was Gary Johnson. It comes with some managers with experience. Yes there is form. I haven't seen a City player having a go at a team mate in that way - ie for a prolonged period - for a long time. Sure, sometimes there is an immediate angry reaction and the players move on, but Tomlin carried on the spat with Freeman for a long time, even came over about 50 yards to continue, although it has to be said they did end up shaking hands. After the Agard penalty miss he was gesticulating for quite a long time afterwards. I could be wrong, and its not a major issue at the moment. He's actually my sort of footballer, but I have a feeling he needs careful man management. Agree totally Nick Quality player but somebody who's a bit of a challenge to manage is right Need to be careful about the characters we sign permanently IMO - the quality is unquestionable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Don't think SC would have signed Noble, Trundle or Tomlin for a moment Nick Not the right characters for him and would have been a disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Woodsy said: I couldn't work out if JB was pissed off at coming off, or pissed off at having to come off with a knock Or had he been taking lessons from Thatch? Was he looking pissed off at coming off but really this anger was directed at coming off because of a knock? Come on... Even an amateur can spot that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 4 hours ago, The Bard said: Sorry, but how on earth can you envisage anything, unless you know one or both of Tomlin and LJ. You're just guessing. No not guessing, that would be pointless and a waste of time. As I said, envisaging - with difficulty - from my perception of LJ's character. 1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Don't think SC would have signed Noble, Trundle or Tomlin for a moment Nick Not the right characters for him and would have been a disaster Yes I agree he wouldn't, but if he had, with my small insight as to how JET's appearance expectations were managed but he was still kept happy, I think he would have managed them better than GJ. I feel we may be going off on a tangent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 I suppose if you are going to uncover learning points, 0-4 is as good a time as any. As for Tomlin getting irritated a few times. Was not there, but think we have missed real leadership on the pitch since Wade. Good that somebody cares enough to get irritated when we are getting dicked at home! Of course there is a right way and a wrong way to do it, but certainly not the actions of a loanee not caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Tomlins last penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 5 minutes ago, Red Ferret said: Tomlins last penalty Well, at least he scored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Would Agard have done it if he knew he'd face Cotterill if he missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Much as I'm disappointed whenever a City player misses a penalty, there's a few reasons I'm not worried: 1) I was without Joe last night, so my chauffeur left before the end, so I missed it (as did Agard) 2) Tomlin rightly annoyed....that shows good character imho. What would people say if he turned around laughing. He cares, as does other incidents we've witnessed...he's trying to show other players what is expected to be good at this level. Can't get my head around 'troublemaker' comments from what we've seen. Or are we tarring him with what happened at the end of his time at AFCB? 3) He will still have the element of surprise for our next penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Much as I'm disappointed whenever a City player misses a penalty, there's a few reasons I'm not worried: 1) I was without Joe last night, so my chauffeur left before the end, so I missed it (as did Agard) 2) Tomlin rightly annoyed....that shows good character imho. What would people say if he turned around laughing. He cares, as does other incidents we've witnessed...he's trying to show other players what is expected to be good at this level. Can't get my head around 'troublemaker' comments from what we've seen. Or are we tarring him with what happened at the end of his time at AFCB? 3) He will still have the element of surprise for our next penalty. So you think he`ll still be here midway through next season then Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Red Right Hand said: So you think he`ll still be here midway through next season then Dave? Yes If Agard isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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