Hillsborough

[ooRya]

On ‎10‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 12:24, Sixtyseconds said:

"Quite possibly, although the reason that the lies were told and sounded plausible to many at the time comes from the sporadic behaviour of football fans for the two or three decades previously."

And the Unions?

And the Hippies at Stonehenge?

And the infiltration of political activists which involved shagging Greenham common peace wimmin?

Covers ups ...

Abuses of power...

All happened under some women called Margaret.

Odd that.

Well said.

I was having the exact same thoughts myself while reading this thread.

[Show Me The Money!]

Just on the Hillsborough ground itself what was the purpose of pens? Its just seem so crazy to filter all those people into an area and not have anywhere near sufficient emergency access to get them out. There were small gates in the fencing at the front but nothing along the sides of the pens. Just looked like treating human beings like animals.

It just makes me think Hillsborough hadn't happened how long it would have been until a similar disaster would have occurred 

[Lanterne Rouge]

7 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Just on the Hillsborough ground itself what was the purpose of pens? Its just seem so crazy to filter all those people into an area and not have anywhere near sufficient emergency access to get them out. There were small gates in the fencing at the front but nothing along the sides of the pens. Just looked like treating human beings like animals.

It just makes me think Hillsborough hadn't happened how long it would have been until a similar disaster would have occurred 

Paranoia about pitch invasions a la Luton v Millwall basically. That tosser Ken Bates even suggested electrifying them.

[Portland Bill]

22 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Just on the Hillsborough ground itself what was the purpose of pens? Its just seem so crazy to filter all those people into an area and not have anywhere near sufficient emergency access to get them out. There were small gates in the fencing at the front but nothing along the sides of the pens. Just looked like treating human beings like animals.

It just makes me think Hillsborough hadn't happened how long it would have been until a similar disaster would have occurred 

Swindon used to put away fans in part of the end ( Stratton bank?) and also down the side of the ground.

When you ended up in the side there were about 4-5 pens that would hold about 4 to 500 in each, you had to go through one pen to get to the next etc,they had one small access gate and the rest of it was basically a cage you would see in a zoo. No police would be on the terraces, ( no stewards in those days) they would stand on the perimeter of the pitch watching you ( often goading ). If you needed to get out of the cage you literelly had no chance.

Yes, there was a lot of trouble at football in those days, but the way we were treated like animals created a lot of this.

[REDOXO]

On 5/10/2016 at 01:18, Eddie Hitler said:

Nothing would have changed without a disaster happening and forcing change.

Prior to watching it I didn't know how the idea that it was caused by drunk ticket less Liverpool fans forcing open the gate had gained currency. It was how it was reported at the time and, with Heysel as a recent and very shocking memory, entirely believable.

This was a deliberate lie by Duckenfield, who had ordered the exit gate opened to prevent the crush outside rather than announcing a delayed kick off, and was told by him to Graham Kelly who had visited the control box while the incident was still happening.

So the FA believed it, the news and the government believed it, I and pretty much everyone I knew believed it, and the coroner believed it to the extent that he had every single person who died tested for blood alcohol levels; this had never happened before.

Duckenfield's order to open the gate was the mistake that caused the deaths. He was new to the job and didn't know how to handle football crowds, didn't know the stadium layout and the previous crush problems. He shouldn't have been in charge, if he had admitted his mistake then an inquiry may well have focused upon the people who appointed this inexperienced and out of his depth man to such a post.

But with that lie he condemned the families and ultimately himself to twenty years of misery. I don't know when sentencing is but he should be locked up for both the accidental damage he caused by his error and the deliberate damage caused by his lie.

Of course I agree largely as above.

However whatever was stated at the time soon clearly was shown to be untrue. Lies as the documentary points out became the currency of the police forces involved, particularly the SYP and promoted and reinforced by many over an extended period.

It is easy to think the myth started with Duckenfield and repeated by Kelly, which it did, but the collusion that followed for 22years went from police, politicians, coroners and to the heart of government. For the love of god the House of Lords archive had the original and amended police statements, how much to the heart of government would the sensible man need to know before drawing the conclusion that the cover up was huge and complete.

Lord Taylor comes out of this as one of the few impartial characters, but the comment by the later judge 'just like Liverpool supporters to be late' should have him struck off from any public office and his conclusions studied closely in all his cases.

Duckefield should be prosecuted, but he is just the beginning. The lies through police forces to the heart of government should be prosecuted even more forcefully, then I and many will draw the line under Hillsborough 89.............That is justice for the 96! (and the rest of us)

 

[RedM]

10 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Swindon used to put away fans in part of the end ( Stratton bank?) and also down the side of the ground.

When you ended up in the side there were about 4-5 pens that would hold about 4 to 500 in each, you had to go through one pen to get to the next etc,they had one small access gate and the rest of it was basically a cage you would see in a zoo. No police would be on the terraces, ( no stewards in those days) they would stand on the perimeter of the pitch watching you ( often goading ). If you needed to get out of the cage you literelly had no chance.

Yes, there was a lot of trouble at football in those days, but the way we were treated like animals created a lot of this.

Yes, it's just the way it was back then. Only people with money or some elderly people sat down, everybody else was penned in and you just accepted it. Some foreign grounds had moats between the pens send the pitch but we didn't get that over here, although yes there was call for then to be electrified. All very alien to some of you now I expect.

Even in our own Eastend there were high railings between us and the pitch, and it was solid. If you didn't stand far enough towards the back it was like looking through a barred gate. But then if you did stand so you could see you were jammed in like sardines and got thrown to the front in the surges. 

Hooliganism was rife at the time, and most games were 'edgy', if you didn't find trouble at an away game for example then you found trouble with another team ambushing you or at the services. 

And as someone else mentioned, we didn't have social media, everyone with a camera or news on demand. Many people took little radios to the matches to try to find out the other scores, it was the only way. You had to wait for the news programme on tv, and if you missed that then you had to wait until the next time the news was on. Newspapers were much, much more popular, most people bought one on the way to work (don't forget even buying first thing in the morning the news was already probably at least 8 hours old). Newspapers had a lot of power, what they said was accepted almost without question. 

People could talk to friends, family,workmates etc, but it was almost impossible to 'talk' like this, to strangers all over the country and the world. Newspapers and tv reported what had happened, people were shocked but sadly so soon after Hysel people thought ' oh no, not Liverpool again'. We were told 'facts' by the media and had no way of checking for ourselves or finding out the truths. 

It all sounds impossible to believe now that people just accepted it, I think individually we didn't but just couldn't speak as one to question it, we didn't have the means to do so.

The families had each other, thank God they did and their combined strength made the truth come out. RIP 96