Guest Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Impartial, objective advice will be thin on the ground for sure, Woodsy. A shame really, as this is a bit more complicated than a straightforward Left v Right, Red or Blue, choice at a General Election isn't it? What's important to you? For example: Is it the right to make our own laws and choose how we wish to be governed or is it being able to get through customs a bit quicker on your way to and from Magaluf of a summer? The sovereignty of our parliamentary democracy and freedom of movement are just 2 of the issues of course. There are plenty of others you could hang your hat on come June 23. The good news is that this is the referendum of June 1975 all over again and we all know where City finished the following season... Ahh Parliamentary sovereignty. How 'unsovereign' is the decision in the electorate's hands whether to continue to be a member of a union and governed by its rules? Or ask Norway how sovereign their traders with the EU feel having to comply with their regs to which they have no say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Sir Colby-Tit said: Is there an option to leave Europe and join the Caribbean? We'd need a bloody gurt big tug boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Mao Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Sir Colby-Tit said: Is there an option to leave Europe and join the Caribbean? You'd really want to join that rag tag group of Islands? Such a move wont bring us the weather! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 10 hours ago, SecretSam said: Was just reading in the Grauniad that SL's best bud Hargreaves is funding the Brexit campaign. Was just wondering what might happen to the transfer market here if we did leave - given the issues that non-EU players sometimes have with work permits, etc (whereas EU players can freely move, no permit required)? Any cost that removes the 'welcome extremist's' sign from the door will be worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarksRobin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 Whether you believe in Brexit or staying, the most important thing is to exercise your right to vote. I just hope which ever side loses accepts the result once and for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 53 minutes ago, WarksRobin said: Whether you believe in Brexit or staying, the most important thing is to exercise your right to vote. I just hope which ever side loses accepts the result once and for all! Never; we didn't in '75. We should always negotiate what's best for our Country at the time. What might be 'in' today might be 'out' tomorrow. Nonetheless my opinion is and remains we elect a government to make these decisions and not put decisions to the general electorate. Personally I do not accept the 'opinion' of the general electorate - myself completely included - as I don't possess all the facts and data and insight that the elected members have. I don't trust anyone else, just as I don't myself, to make such a monumental and fundamental decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Chairman Mao said: You'd really want to join that rag tag group of Islands? Such a move wont bring us the weather! B****r that, we could fill in the Channel Tunnel and start one from Lands End to Jamaica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2016 Report Share Posted May 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Robert the bruce said: Any cost that removes the 'welcome extremist's' sign from the door will be worth it... You will have to point me to such sign that exists by virtue of our intra-EU-outside-Schengen membership. Of course, there is no threat of extremism in Northen Ireland nor should we boot them out of the Union of the United Kingdom. I'll also take a lot of convincing that just because we 'own' our borders if we vote leave we will effectively 'control' our borders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 22 hours ago, SecretSam said: Was just reading in the Grauniad that SL's best bud Hargreaves is funding the Brexit campaign. Was just wondering what might happen to the transfer market here if we did leave - given the issues that non-EU players sometimes have with work permits, etc (whereas EU players can freely move, no permit required)? The answer is the Premiership will have about 20 players left if that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 18 hours ago, pongo88 said: Thank you, David Cameron, for your contribution. Andrew Neil made a comment on telly last night. Would people like Cameron and Osborne have called a referendum, in which there is a possibility of the country voting to leave the EU, if the consequence of leaving was Armageddon and financial meltdown, as they are suggesting/scaremongering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 16 minutes ago, downendcity said: Andrew Neil made a comment on telly last night. Would people like Cameron and Osborne have called a referendum, in which there is a possibility of the country voting to leave the EU, if the consequence of leaving was Armageddon and financial meltdown, as they are suggesting/scaremongering? Yes; to make their bargaining position stronger in the negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 16 hours ago, BobbyC said: I'm voting out. 15 hours ago, ZiderEyed said: I'll be voting leave. Would be interested to hear your reasoning and whether your decision takes a broad view of the effects it will have. I'm yet to meet anyone who truly understands the implications across society and the economy and is looking beyond immigration and entrenched stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 14 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Impartial, objective advice will be thin on the ground for sure, Woodsy. A shame really, as this is a bit more complicated than a straightforward Left v Right, Red or Blue, choice at a General Election isn't it? What's important to you? For example: Is it the right to make our own laws and choose how we wish to be governed or is it being able to get through customs a bit quicker on your way to and from Magaluf of a summer? The sovereignty of our parliamentary democracy and freedom of movement are just 2 of the issues of course. There are plenty of others you could hang your hat on come June 23. The good news is that this is the referendum of June 1975 all over again and we all know where City finished the following season... I'm a semi intelligent bloke (some will find that hard to believe), and I've kinda worked it out based on the above, but it still scares me that no one can actually tell me what will happen either way - as others have alluded to, I guess no one knows, which makes it even scarier BoE warning about a mini recession, you've got the 'shut the doors' brigade shouting above everyone else This isn't a suck it and see kind of thing, this is going to have a massive impact on our lives - we **** this up, we're going to live with the consequences for a long, long time As for 1975 referendum, bloody good point. Straight to the bookies after casting my vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I've actually been genuinely undecided about this, though I'm wavering in one direction right now What I'd say is that any magical solution being offered by either side is almost certainly a fairy tale. Continued membership of the EU does not automatically mean prosperity. But leaving will not lead to favourable trade deals being pulled out of thin air. The only thing I'm sure of is that a vote for Brexit would lead to a recession, the question is whether that's a price worth paying. All the 'defend our borders' stuff is bullshit though; any trade deal with the EU will require free movement of citizens, so we'll be in exactly the same spot as we are now. Plus, our economy benefits significantly from EU migration, so it's only really a social issue and I'm fairly sure the sodding kids who throw rubbish over my wall from the ASDA car park are English born and bred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, 29AR said: Yes; to make their bargaining position stronger in the negotiations. Don't see how it would have given Cameron a stronger bargaining position if the consequence of leaving would be financial catastrophe, war breaking out etc. as the EU would then know there is no way we would want to leave. Also, had Cameron not been able to secure the changes he "negotiated" ( bet footballers are glad Cameron is not an agent going into contract negotiations on their behalf!) he would have had to campaign for the country to leave the EU and would he then have promised us Armageddon, financial meltdown etc if we did leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Woodsy said: I'm a semi intelligent bloke (some will find that hard to believe), and I've kinda worked it out based on the above, but it still scares me that no one can actually tell me what will happen either way - as others have alluded to, I guess no one knows, which makes it even scarier BoE warning about a mini recession, you've got the 'shut the doors' brigade shouting above everyone else This isn't a suck it and see kind of thing, this is going to have a massive impact on our lives - we **** this up, we're going to live with the consequences for a long, long time As for 1975 referendum, bloody good point. Straight to the bookies after casting my vote! Life is pretty good here in the UK, broadly speaking, Woodsy, compared to the majority of the rest of this planet. And compared to the life the over whelming majority of people have had on this rock since climate change drove our ancestors to leave their nice little bit of east Africa all them years ago. It is in our DNA to go looking for something better and that's probably what you are wrestling with here. At least you are unlikely to have to up-sticks much further than Gloster to find a decent life (assuming that's why you rocked up there). We are a successful lot and one of the globe's "winners" (leaving aside arguments about how we came to be so), or at least one of it's wealthiest. We are the 5th greatest economy and predicted to be the 4th by 2030. That is some going for a small island (again, leaving aside many arguments on this). Denmark are 38th, and life is good there, by all accounts. Whether we stay in or leave, I reckon we will still be somewhere between 5th and 38th wealthiest, and be able to have a decent standard of living here. GDP isn't everything of course, there are many other concerns and issues, but I think we'll be ok on the economy front either way. That's my guess, any way. Toss a coin and vote so you can say you did your bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Life is pretty good here in the UK, broadly speaking, Woodsy, compared to the majority of the rest of this planet. And compared to the life the over whelming majority of people have had on this rock since climate change drove our ancestors to leave their nice little bit of east Africa all them years ago. It is in our DNA to go looking for something better and that's probably what you are wrestling with here. At least you are unlikely to have to up-sticks much further than Gloster to find a decent life (assuming that's why you rocked up there). We are a successful lot and one of the globe's "winners" (leaving aside arguments about how we came to be so), or at least one of it's wealthiest. We are the 5th greatest economy and predicted to be the 4th by 2030. That is some going for a small island (again, leaving aside many arguments on this). Denmark are 38th, and life is good there, by all accounts. Whether we stay in or leave, I reckon we will still be somewhere between 5th and 38th wealthiest, and be able to have a decent standard of living here. GDP isn't everything of course, there are many other concerns and issues, but I think we'll be ok on the economy front either way. That's my guess, any way. Toss a coin and vote so you can say you did your bit. Quite right, there's not many places I'd rather have been born in than Blighty, that's for sure. I guess it's human nature to always want things a little better than they currently are, but I'm a lucky bloke - I can't complain too much with my lot in life I like what Gordon Browln said earlier in the week, we should be leading, not leaving the EU. I guess that's my biggest issue with it, Germany, France & Belgium all seem to have more of a say than we do. Whether that's true or not I'm not sure, but we should be one of the louder voices, should we stay, than sat at the back of the class putting chewing gum in Greece's hair and sending love letters to Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 55 minutes ago, downendcity said: Don't see how it would have given Cameron a stronger bargaining position if the consequence of leaving would be financial catastrophe, war breaking out etc. as the EU would then know there is no way we would want to leave. I agree; and I think that's how it played out. Bluff was in the main called. Also, had Cameron not been able to secure the changes he "negotiated" ( bet footballers are glad Cameron is not an agent going into contract negotiations on their behalf!) he would have had to campaign for the country to leave the EU and would he then have promised us Armageddon, financial meltdown etc if we did leave? We've seen U-Turns many times before from Cameron's govt, most recently over academies. I think he was always campaigning to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 1 hour ago, chipdawg said: I've actually been genuinely undecided about this, though I'm wavering in one direction right now What I'd say is that any magical solution being offered by either side is almost certainly a fairy tale. Continued membership of the EU does not automatically mean prosperity. But leaving will not lead to favourable trade deals being pulled out of thin air. The only thing I'm sure of is that a vote for Brexit would lead to a recession, the question is whether that's a price worth paying. All the 'defend our borders' stuff is bullshit though; any trade deal with the EU will require free movement of citizens, so we'll be in exactly the same spot as we are now. Plus, our economy benefits significantly from EU migration, so it's only really a social issue and I'm fairly sure the sodding kids who throw rubbish over my wall from the ASDA car park are English born and bred Spot on. Like it or not we depend on a thriving economy to support ourselves and our public services. The core of our money system is the market and confidence. Bring about uncertainty and it will have a huge impact - for a period at least. Even after the vote, a win for the 'leave' brigade will frighten business as it will leave a huge question mark over so many things. I think a recession will be guaranteed. Unfortunately, too many people will vote with petty prejudices without having any grip of the wider issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, 29AR said: Don't see how it would have given Cameron a stronger bargaining position if the consequence of leaving would be financial catastrophe, war breaking out etc. as the EU would then know there is no way we would want to leave. I agree; and I think that's how it played out. Bluff was in the main called. Also, had Cameron not been able to secure the changes he "negotiated" ( bet footballers are glad Cameron is not an agent going into contract negotiations on their behalf!) he would have had to campaign for the country to leave the EU and would he then have promised us Armageddon, financial meltdown etc if we did leave? We've seen U-Turns many times before from Cameron's govt, most recently over academies. I think he was always campaigning to stay. Seems to me that Europe needs us much more than we need them - we are a net contributor and us leaving would put the financial burden even more on Germany and France and with most of Europe being financial basket cases, they will not fancy bailing the rest out o their own. Also, if the Uk leaves then there is a real chance of a domino effect - how many other countries will want to follow our example? If so, then Cameron's negotiations were farcical. He could have gone to the table demanding serious root and branch changes to the way the EU runs and impacts on Britain - financial accountability ( EU accounts never yet signed off) proper immigration controls and real protection of our sovereignty. He seems to have uses the "Tim Nice but Dim" negotiating technique - going in wanting very little and achieving even less. My other concern is whether the EU will actually implement any of the changes or will manage to water them down still further once the vote is made and if we stay. If that should happen, then there is no way we will be able to cry foul and demand a revote and we will certainly not get any further concessions. Notwithstanding everything I have said, I am still very undecided as I don't think there is anyone, on either side, able and/or willing to tell the real truth about what the future is likely to be if we stay or leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, downendcity said: Seems to me that Europe needs us much more than we need them - we are a net contributor and us leaving would put the financial burden even more on Germany and France and with most of Europe being financial basket cases, they will not fancy bailing the rest out o their own. Also, if the Uk leaves then there is a real chance of a domino effect - how many other countries will want to follow our example? Not sure I agree here. Whilst we are a net contributor we reap benefits from being in the EU, so I think it's a case of is the 'membership fee' worth paying - particularly as we are in a trade deficit. I don't think there will be a domino effect for a while yet. The uncertainty it will bring here, the years of negotiating an exit, the effect of what trade deals we can agree and their attractiveness will all need to be played out. It will be decades rather than years for other to assess. If so, then Cameron's negotiations were farcical. He could have gone to the table demanding serious root and branch changes to the way the EU runs and impacts on Britain - financial accountability ( EU accounts never yet signed off) proper immigration controls and real protection of our sovereignty. Again, I'm not so sure because I don't think Europe needs us much more than we need them. I also disagree with the protection of our sovereignty because we are sovereign. If we don't like what's going on we can take our ball away - as we are threatening with the referendum. Seems sovereign to me. Much more sovereign than going the Norway route and having to comply with EU regs on trade, and contribute to the coiffers, without having a say in what those regs may become. That seems even less sovereign! He seems to have uses the "Tim Nice but Dim" negotiating technique - going in wanting very little and achieving even less. My other concern is whether the EU will actually implement any of the changes or will manage to water them down still further once the vote is made and if we stay. If that should happen, then there is no way we will be able to cry foul and demand a revote and we will certainly not get any further concessions. Agree Notwithstanding everything I have said, I am still very undecided as I don't think there is anyone, on either side, able and/or willing to tell the real truth about what the future is likely to be if we stay or leave. Agree. I think it's ridiculous that the general population is tasked to make a decision it is not well enough informed to make (I readily admit I am not). That said, I am very clear on which way I am voting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 Did the Common Market ever get as far as Stanton Drew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 31 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Did the Common Market ever get as far as Stanton Drew? I'm not sure the Farmer's Market got as far as Stanton Drew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 To answer the OP, it depends on who you ask. An agent would add 15% to all his prices. A manager would say it will make the transfer window EVEN harder for him A fan would say we can get quality local players in on the cheap i.e. 11 x Wayne Rooooney's aged 16. Aizoon would chip in with a random comment about Hedgehogs - with which, he is OBSESSED. I thank you. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 18 minutes ago, Taxi for Rennie said: To answer the OP, it depends on who you ask. An agent would add 15% to all his prices. A manager would say it will make the transfer window EVEN harder for him Liverpool's Granny hookers A fan would say we can get quality local players in on the cheap i.e. 11 x Wayne Rooooney's aged 16. Aizoon would chip in with a random comment about Hedgehogs - with which, he is OBSESSED. I thank you. Uncle TFR Slight correction TfR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrick Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 foreign players have played soccer in UK before joining the EU and will continue after a possible Brexit ; another scare story see http://www.brexitthemovie.com/ the EU is an anti democratic racket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 On 13/05/2016 at 10:17, Jack Dawe said: Life is pretty good here in the UK, broadly speaking, Woodsy, compared to the majority of the rest of this planet. And compared to the life the over whelming majority of people have had on this rock since climate change drove our ancestors to leave their nice little bit of east Africa all them years ago. It is in our DNA to go looking for something better and that's probably what you are wrestling with here. At least you are unlikely to have to up-sticks much further than Gloster to find a decent life (assuming that's why you rocked up there). We are a successful lot and one of the globe's "winners" (leaving aside arguments about how we came to be so), or at least one of it's wealthiest. We are the 5th greatest economy and predicted to be the 4th by 2030. That is some going for a small island (again, leaving aside many arguments on this). Denmark are 38th, and life is good there, by all accounts. Whether we stay in or leave, I reckon we will still be somewhere between 5th and 38th wealthiest, and be able to have a decent standard of living here. GDP isn't everything of course, there are many other concerns and issues, but I think we'll be ok on the economy front either way. That's my guess, any way. Toss a coin and vote so you can say you did your bit. well said that man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 On 13 May 2016 at 07:34, BigTone said: The answer is the Premiership will have about 20 players left if that We'd better get down the gym, start a diet and get some dubbin on our boots then Tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipflopcity Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 11 hours ago, oldstandrobin said: You could "Toss a coin" and vote so you can say you did your bit. What ever way you think is right ... In or Out ... MAKE SURE YOU VOTE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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